Propane story!

[wiredgeorge]

Guess like most things these days, propane is harder to come by and more pricey. Neither the Tractor Supply in Bandera or Castroville has any and will not have any for awhile. Went to Robbins Propane west of Castroville and had both my 30 lb tanks filled as they were both almost empty and I do like the propane heat first thing in the morning if it is cold out (been getting chilly here in Texas as of late). Tractor Supply current price is $4.17 a gallon so a 30 gallon tank would be $125 if I am calculating correctly and the tank was completely empty. I paid $35 for each of my 30 gallon tanks at Robbins Propane so guess it was a good thing I went there. Anybody wanting to do cold weather camping had best start factoring in propane cost I guess. We use electric heat mostly and then a shot of heat from our camper's heater in the AM to get things warmed up.

[Wxman]

Doesn't bode well for winter at all.

Although, I imagine you have 30lb tanks, not 30 gal tanks. LP weighs about 4.2lbs per gallon.
30 lbs x 0.8 (80% max fill) is 24 lbs to fill empty tank
divided by 4.2 gives 5.71 gals
times 4.17 per gal would have been $23.82 per tank.

Sorry, but I love TSC here and they do always seem to have the best price. Of course that would be of no use if they didn't have it.

Keep warm.

[jsb5717]

Yeah, I've also heard that a propane shortage is coming. I remember one 8-10 years ago as well.

Yes, you have 30lb tanks, which are 7 gallons ea.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

Yeah, I've also heard that a propane shortage is coming. I remember one 8-10 years ago as well.

Yes, you have 30lb tanks, which are 7 gallons ea.

Well, I am a product of the public education system. Over $4 a gallon at TS is quite a bit higher than last time I filled my tanks.

[notanlines]

I paid $45 for a refill of a 40 pound tank last week at TS. Didn't seem much different than usual.

[dutchmensport]

We paid $32 for a 30 pound tank fill up at our nearest RV dealership today. When I talked to the parts department a few days ago, I asked about raising prices on propane. He said all Summer long, the price per pound has increased about $0.05 (5 cents) a gallon every month for several months now. So the increase has been slow.

Earlier this year, our local TSC (Anderson, Indiana) ran out, as did (Noblesville, Indiana) the same time. That was last February - March (2021) time frame, but we've not had any issues getting refills since then, anywhere.

Many, many years ago, my mother's neighbor who lived across the highway from my mother and I grew up with these people all my life, told me that if someone could afford to drill down in the ground about 1000 feet directly under his, or my mother's house, there was an absolute unlimited supply of natural gas, that would provide all the power we could ever dream of for the rest of our lives.

The only problem is, the cost of drilling and the cost of the equipment to capture it so it's usable.

There is an abundance of natural gas in the ground. I imagine this "shortage" is not the ability to pump it, capture it, and hold it for use. I imagine, the problem is transporting it, as there is a horrible shortage of transport drivers for everything and there are some locations truck drivers are just refusing to drive to.

Real or not, true or false, fact or fiction, whatever the cause, whatever the excuses, just like everything else, it only stands to reason that prices are going up. Everyone CEO of every organization still wants their 5 billion dollar Christmas bonus and we, the little people, pay to make that happen!

[wiredgeorge]

The American Trucking Prez says they are 80K drivers short and main issue is age. Most of the current drivers are over 45 and since the plague sat everyone at home for a couple years, they have just not re-staffed new drivers.

[JRTJH]

It's not just truck drivers that are in short supply. The local McDonald's just raised their "Now Hiring Starting at $17/hr" sign to read, "Now Hiring Starting at $21/hr"... And they can't get people to apply.

TWENTY ONE DOLLARS !!!!! When I started as an RN (with a BSN) in surgery, I was making $12.35/hr.

We sit on top of one of the world's biggest natural gas deposits. There are pipelines crisscrossing every square mile of land around here. Propane at TSC is going for $3.59/gallon. The Ace Hardware in Atlanta, MI (about 15 miles east of us) had a propane sale last weekend. 20 lbs, $8, 30 lb tanks $12, 40 lb tanks $16 and 100 pound tanks $39. There isn't a shortage around here..... YET.....

[gearhead]

Our propane is leaving the Chenier Louisiana terminal in a LNG tanker bound for Japan.
Have I got to post more links to those RBN Energy articles?? LOL. I need to top off several tanks myself.
It'll get worse before it gets better.

[sourdough]

Hopefully in a year or so it will turn around. Many folks just don't understand the many levers that affect our economy and deciding to push one for some inexplicable reason, it has a cascading effect. Until then....

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

It's not just truck drivers that are in short supply. The local McDonald's just raised their "Now Hiring Starting at $17/hr" sign to read, "Now Hiring Starting at $21/hr"... And they can't get people to apply.

TWENTY ONE DOLLARS !!!!! When I started as an RN (with a BSN) in surgery, I was making $12.35/hr.

We sit on top of one of the world's biggest natural gas deposits. There are pipelines crisscrossing every square mile of land around here. Propane at TSC is going for $3.59/gallon. The Ace Hardware in Atlanta, MI (about 15 miles east of us) had a propane sale last weekend. 20 lbs, $8, 30 lb tanks $12, 40 lb tanks $16 and 100 pound tanks $39. There isn't a shortage around here..... YET.....

I heard on the news that a Michigan based pipeline (Pipeline #5 ??) was being considered for shut down. Doesn't make sense to me if it isn't leaking or a danger to leak; with fuel prices what they are.

[RickV]

I am back home now and yesterday I dropped off a 40 lb tank at a local propane dealer that needed to be re-certified also had 3 20 lb ones that needed filled. Two of the three were out of date so they wouldn't fill em, so I went to Lowe's and did the Blue Rhino swap out thing with them. The Dealer charged me $84 to re-certify and fill the 40 and fill the 20 which I thought wasn't bad, the swap outs cost me $44 which I thought was a little high especially when they are only 3/4 full. But at least now I have two more tanks that are current on certification.

[notanlines]

George, you are correct: Line 5 pipeline's route through the Straits is within an easement issued in 1953 by the State of Michigan. Line 5 transports up to 540,000 barrels – or 22.68 million gallons – per day of light crude oil and natural gas liquids. Tree huggers and Michigan's favorite lady Miss Gretchen have craved that shutdown for ages.

[JRTJH]

A local group of "environmentalists" (tree huggers) have been calling for line #5 to be shut down for the past 10+ years. There was a pipeline incident near Flint about 5 years ago. That pipeline was owned by the same company that owns line#5, so that incident increased pressure on the Michigan government to shut down Enbridge Line 5. Politics became involved with the last change in Michigan administration and now that the same party is in power in Washington, that pressure is increasing.

Line #5 is the only means of moving oil/natural gas across the Straits, from lower Michigan to the Upper Peninsula and on into Canada. Enbridge has proposed building a tunnel in the bedrock under the lakes to house the tunnel and protect the Great Lakes from any potential pipeline break. To date, they can't get authorization to build the tunnel, based mostly on the "Green Energy" program, conversion away from fossil fuels and environmental concerns from a growing number of IMO, "nut cases"....

I agree, we need to move to use of alternative fuels and that transition should be implemented. But we can't stop all use of fossil fuels "overnight"... To do so would destroy civilization, end the current mass transportation infrastructure, end electric power production, end heating homes, and stop all RV'ing (until Ford produces enough electric F150's to pull all the half ton fifth wheels that currently are on the road......

Yep, Line #5 is vital, and there's a growing call to shut it down. If that comes from Washington, we're going to see a return to "caveman living" and no heat for homes across the entire northern Michigan area, extending well beyond the UP.

[travelin texans]

I worked operations & maintenance for a pipeline company for 30+ years!
The biggest issues with pipelines isn't necessarily what's in them, but rather ignorance on the part of the public about them. Most of the problems with those I worked on were 3rd parties, either commercially or privately, digging without the proper notifications or time limits to do so.
One of those lines was LPG running from Sunray, 60 miles north of Amarillo, to Mount Belvieu, east of Houston, that was hit once by a contactors operator that couldn't read English on the pipeline marker he was digging directly over.
My company also had an 8" gasoline pipeline running 10' off the front porch or through the middle of the backyard of a brand new subdivision with 1/2-1 million dollar homes & not one single resident had a clue about those brightly colored markings attached to their driveway or backyard fences.
Those I operated were so closely monitored &/or patrolled that if there was an issue it was detected very quickly. Also inspected internally at regularly scheduled intervals.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Many folks just don't understand the many levers that affect our economy and deciding to push one for some inexplicable reason, it has a cascading effect.

More precisely, nobody can understand the many levers that affect our economy, and most problems like this can be traced to the actions of somebody who thinks otherwise. Every command economy in history has failed spectacularly, and yet there's always somebody who thinks he's smarter than everyone who has gone before, and tries to establish another one.

[CaptnJohn]

Filled a 30 pound tank yesterday, $24.68.

"Many folks just don't understand the many levers that affect our economy and deciding to push one for some inexplicable reason, it has a cascading effect."

To be accurate the 1st 2 words need changed to 'current politicians'. Not a political statement, just the facts.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Filled a 30 pound tank yesterday, $24.68.

"Many folks just don't understand the many levers that affect our economy and deciding to push one for some inexplicable reason, it has a cascading effect."

To be accurate the 1st 2 words need changed to 'current politicians'. Not a political statement, just the facts.

My wording was to try to keep politics out of the conversation. And in reality, we don't get politicians that vote like they do without folks believing things, or not understanding them, and they put them there hence the term "many folks" because too many, far too many, just want to hear something good but have no idea if it is right, wrong....good or bad.....and unfortunately don't actually do any due diligence to ascertain the truth nor know how to get it except for reading mass media which is......

Now how's that for an over extended, compounded and fractured up sentence? !

I checked at my local ACE lumberyard yesterday that always fills my tanks and they said a 30lb. tank costs $24, the same as it has since I started filling them there several years ago. The lady said they don't know of any price hike coming but we still have plenty of time for things "to get worse".

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by sourdough

My wording was to try to keep politics out of the conversation. And in reality, we don't get politicians that vote like they do without folks believing things, or not understanding them, and they put them there hence the term "many folks" because too many, far too many, just want to hear something good but have no idea if it is right, wrong....good or bad.....and unfortunately don't actually do any due diligence to ascertain the truth nor know how to get it except for reading mass media which is......

Now how's that for an over extended, compounded and fractured up sentence? !

I checked at my local ACE lumberyard yesterday that always fills my tanks and they said a 30lb. tank costs $24, the same as it has since I started filling them there several years ago. The lady said they don't know of any price hike coming but we still have plenty of time for things "to get worse".

Back in the mid 1970`s I worked as an electrician and there was an older gent that was a "clean up man". He cleaned parts, swept up, etc. He didn’t have a car so often I would take him home to save him the long bus ride. On one ride after work I talked about the weather, just to converse. He told me the weather was "fouled up" because of the rockets NASA was sending into space. I asked him why he thought that and he replied that he "read it in the paper". Then he told me it "wasn't one of those cheap papers, it cost him a dollar so it had to be true". When I asked for the name of the paper his reply was "The National Enquire ". Yup, his vote counted to.

[KarenK]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

It's not just truck drivers that are in short supply. The local McDonald's just raised their "Now Hiring Starting at $17/hr" sign to read, "Now Hiring Starting at $21/hr"... And they can't get people to apply.

TWENTY ONE DOLLARS !!!!! When I started as an RN (with a BSN) in surgery, I was making $12.35/hr.

We sit on top of one of the world's biggest natural gas deposits. There are pipelines crisscrossing every square mile of land around here. Propane at TSC is going for $3.59/gallon. The Ace Hardware in Atlanta, MI (about 15 miles east of us) had a propane sale last weekend. 20 lbs, $8, 30 lb tanks $12, 40 lb tanks $16 and 100 pound tanks $39. There isn't a shortage around here..... YET.....

That's a great sale price for Ace Hardware! Had to fill an empty 30# at Ace (Allegan MI) late Sept, was around $25, guy said it was really empty. Last trip of the year and quite cold with the other tank very low and wasn't going to risk running out. Haven't noticed prices going up on the exchange cages you see everywhere either.