Hydraulic Leveling system breaker upgrade

gunmetal97 · 10-29-2021, 05:15 AM

I have a 2015 Fuzion 371 toy hauler w/six point leveling and 3 slides. I m wan.ting to upgrade the breaker that it uses from a 50 amp breaker to the 80 amp breaker. Has anyone done this and is it ok to upgrade to a larger breaker from the factory. Where is that breaker located i ve looked but didnt see it where i thought it was and cant find its location on any manual. I m wanting to help out the slides becasue they go slow and seem to struggle at times with the shuttering when the sofa slide goes in or out. I have cleaned the slides and lubricated them all.

**chuckster57** · 10-29-2021, 05:25 AM

If the hydraulic pump isn’t shutting off, changing to a higher amp breaker won’t help.

gunmetal97 · 10-29-2021, 06:02 AM

It’s not that it isn’t shutting off. It seems it doesn’t have enough power and the slides move slow. The slides shutter as they are going almost out or in

**flybouy** · 10-29-2021, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunmetal97

It’s not that it isn’t shutting off. It seems it doesn’t have enough power and the slides move slow. The slides shutter as they are going almost out or in

The breaker protects against high amperage. If the slides have issues going in/out then either it's insufficient voltage (weak or dead battery) or a mchanical issue.

**chuckster57** · 10-29-2021, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunmetal97

It’s not that it isn’t shutting off. It seems it doesn’t have enough power and the slides move slow. The slides shutter as they are going almost out or in

Changing the breaker to a higher amp rating, just means the pump will shut off at a higher amp draw. If the pump isn’t shutting off during slide movement then the breaker isn’t the problem.

bobbecky · 10-29-2021, 10:11 AM

The starting and stopping of the hydraulic system has been an issue for quite a few years. We had the issue soon after we bought our rig and I believe it was in 2013 that Lippert issued the first information about replacing the 40 or 50 amp breaker that goes to the hydraulic pump motor with an 80 amp breaker. Once I replaced the breaker, we have not had any issues with the system. This is a link to the current LIP Sheet 0058 that addresses this issue: https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf

Our rig was already wired with #4 strand copper cable so the wiring was more than adequate for the heavier breaker.

This is a photo of where our breaker is located on the wall behind the batteries in our rig. We have two breakers, one that is in the circuit from the batteries that protects the hydraulic system as well as the power to the inside panel. The other small breaker has never been an issue as the load on it is much less. The 80 amp breaker used can be either a manual reset style or an auto reset style breaker.

snoobler · 10-29-2021, 10:22 AM

Breakers have a resistance that increases with current. A bad/poor quality/under-rated breaker can introduce a voltage drop that may not be sufficient to power the load.

Replacing with a higher-rated/higher-quality breaker may alleviate performance issues, particularly when dealing with electric motors that have a large surge current.

The one rule to remember is that breakers exist to protect WIRES - NOT equipment. NEVER install a breaker that does not protect the lowest gauge wire in the circuit.

**chuckster57** · 10-29-2021, 10:47 AM

As long as the pump is running steady and all other components ( slides, leveling jacks) operate smooth, then the breaker is ruled out as an issue.

**flybouy** · 10-29-2021, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoobler

Breakers have a resistance that increases with current. A bad/poor quality/under-rated breaker can introduce a voltage drop that may not be sufficient to power the load.

Replacing with a higher-rated/higher-quality breaker may alleviate performance issues, particularly when dealing with electric motors that have a large surge current.

The one rule to remember is that breakers exist to protect WIRES - NOT equipment. NEVER install a breaker that does not protect the lowest gauge wire in the circuit.

The bolded section of the quote is not completly correct. The breaker is sized for the load, not the wire size, The wire size is a computation made on the maximum load upon the circuit. A circuit load should not exceed the maximum rated load that the circuit (conductor size/material, conductor insulation, wire connections, load and overcurrent device).

gearhead · 10-29-2021, 02:50 PM

Apparently this is a widespread issue, regarding Lippert components. My Landmark has the 50 amp auto reset breaker. It's a common issue that has resulted in Lippert recommending upsizing to a 80 amp. I need to get after that.

gunmetal97 · 10-29-2021, 05:10 PM

Thanks for all the help. I have read about Lippert systems do have this problem. That’s why was asking since I have read they also recommended the up grade. Thanks again for all your help.

Javi · 10-30-2021, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunmetal97

Thanks for all the help. I have read about Lippert systems do have this problem. That’s why was asking since I have read they also recommended the up grade. Thanks again for all your help.

The upgrade to an 80 amp is because of the draw of the motor.
Read this. https://www.galvinpower.org/how-does-auto-reset-circuit-breaker-work/

ChuckS · 10-31-2021, 05:44 AM

As already stated if the slides ARE NOT stopping and starting due to the resettable breaker that's in line with dual polarity solenoid then this is not your motion issues...

Id have a look at the two gear packs on each slide out and clean them .. Also check the wear bars or rollers on the bottom of the slides

and yes upgrading the OEM 50 amp under rated breaker for the hyd pump motor should be done..

The motor can draw north of 65 amps or more during cold weather and initial start up..

Keystone continues to turn out new RVs with this junk under rated breaker in the hyd pump motor circuit. Grand Design finally listened to their customer base and the new GD units come with 80 amp breaker

It would be nice if Keystone would quit lolly gagging around and listen to the customer base and fix this issue as well as the aged old slide out cracking the filon wall issues that go on and on an on...

skidooxman · 11-04-2021, 07:12 AM

I have the same unit and the slides are cables not hydraulic. The shutter is the trim piece on the floor, had mine replaced already. Might want to double check for cables.

pdaniel · 11-04-2021, 07:25 AM

Grand Design replaced the 50 amp with 80 amp in their Solitudes a couple of years ago at the factory and the dealers have been replacing pre-2019 50 amp to 80 amp.
Solved the problem.

Jerry S · 11-04-2021, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunmetal97

I have a 2015 Fuzion 371 toy hauler w/six point leveling and 3 slides. I m wan.ting to upgrade the breaker that it uses from a 50 amp breaker to the 80 amp breaker. Has anyone done this and is it ok to upgrade to a larger breaker from the factory. Where is that breaker located i ve looked but didnt see it where i thought it was and cant find its location on any manual. I m wanting to help out the slides becasue they go slow and seem to struggle at times with the shuttering when the sofa slide goes in or out. I have cleaned the slides and lubricated them all.

Breaker has absolutely nothing to do with side going in or out. All the breaker is for is to protect your equipment or wiring if it is over loaded. Apparently you are not overloaded if the breaker is not breaking the circuit because of over load. You need to look elsewhere for jerky slide movement.

Dan Lockwood · 11-04-2021, 07:48 AM

I have a '13 Raptor 395LEV and it also has the Lippert Auto Level and my three slides are hydraulic and work off the same pressure circuit/pump as the leveling system.

I'm not the original owner, but from day one I've had it kick out on me several times during a setup, both the leveling pads and on the slides. Once I hit the Auto Level, it usually completes the Auto Level as during that process it seems to NOT be a continuous power on operation, start stop of the pump as part of the leveling process.

The slides all work off the same rocker switch on the inside panel and the lightest will move first ending up with the heaviest finishing the sliding out or in. On the slide movement, it will kick off/on due to the electrical power being dropped and then reset.

I've replaced my circuit breaker, but only with the same size. I see now I can upgrade safely to the 80 amp breaker and eliminate my issues.

I thought that it was a power issue with my batteries, but did the same thing with two new Interstate RV rated batteries. It sometimes works better with the shore power live, but that's not always an option.

Thanks for this post, very informative!

Dan

pdaniel · 11-04-2021, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Breaker has absolutely nothing to do with side going in or out. All the breaker is for is to protect your equipment or wiring if it is over loaded. Apparently you are not overloaded if the breaker is not breaking the circuit because of over load. You need to look elsewhere for jerky slide movement.

If the slides are hydraulic they are working on the same hydraulic system and pump as the levelers. Therefore the circuit breaker will continue to cycle as the pump is demanding more than the breaker can handle. That is why Lippert and the manufacturers replaced the 50 with an 80.
I have the Lippert hydraulic system for the leveler and slide systems and that breaker is 80 amp.

Blackhawk · 11-04-2021, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunmetal97

I have a 2015 Fuzion 371 toy hauler w/six point leveling and 3 slides. I m wan.ting to upgrade the breaker that it uses from a 50 amp breaker to the 80 amp breaker. Has anyone done this and is it ok to upgrade to a larger breaker from the factory. Where is that breaker located i ve looked but didnt see it where i thought it was and cant find its location on any manual. I m wanting to help out the slides becasue they go slow and seem to struggle at times with the shuttering when the sofa slide goes in or out. I have cleaned the slides and lubricated them all.

I talked to the technicians at LCI, the vendor who supplies the six point leveling system for Montana’s, and they said do not, do not upgrade your 50 amp breaker to an 80 or 100 amp breaker. The technician with LCi said if you upgrade the breaker you’re overloading the wiring and could cause a fire. Regarding the location of the breaker, on my 2019 3120 the breaker is in the back wall behind the batteries about 13 inches on the wall. And the breaker pops a little flag comes out and you just reset the flag.

pdaniel · 11-04-2021, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

I talked to the technicians at LCI, the vendor who supplies the six point leveling system for Montana’s, and they said do not, do not upgrade your 50 amp breaker to an 80 or 100 amp breaker. The technician with LCi said if you upgrade the breaker you’re overloading the wiring and could cause a fire. Regarding the location of the breaker, on my 2019 3120 the breaker is in the back wall behind the batteries about 13 inches on the wall. And the breaker pops a little flag comes out and you just reset the flag.

Here ya go everybody:
https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf

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