Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Repairs & Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-25-2021, 05:36 AM   #1
Wadevb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Dallas
Posts: 4
Battery disconnect?

I have a 2021 Keystone Fuzion 367.
There have been a few minor issues with construction, but overall not too bad considering it was a covid build.

However, I am curious what the electrical disconnect does on the courtesy panel.

I can't tell that it does anything. Possibly it is not connected properly?


I expected it to throw a relay on at least some of the electrical circuits. However, from limited testing everything still is operational regardless of switch position. Would be nice to have it disconnect power to leveler for security purposes.



Anyone have information on the schematic for the disconnect?
Thanks in advance.
Wade
Wadevb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2021, 05:57 AM   #2
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Welcome to the forum

Wiring diagrams are not public documents so you won’t find any. As a rule, leveling and tongue jacks are wired directly to the battery. Disconnect should shut off lights, awnings, and other 12V things inside trailer. If it does nothing then it needs to be fixed under warranty.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2021, 04:12 PM   #3
GHen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Rock Island
Posts: 457
Leaves electric emergency brakes on also. I think the battery manufactures designed it so you need to buy new batteries every year due to the lead acids going to 0 in less than a couple weeks.

Never use mine, I installed a full disconnect at the battery.
GHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2021, 05:34 PM   #4
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHen View Post
Leaves electric emergency brakes on also.
ONLY if the pin is pulled out of the break away.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2021, 06:12 PM   #5
Wxman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: West Central IN
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Welcome to the forum

Wiring diagrams are not public documents so you won’t find any. As a rule, leveling and tongue jacks are wired directly to the battery. Disconnect should shut off lights, awnings, and other 12V things inside trailer. If it does nothing then it needs to be fixed under warranty.
Slightly related FWIW. The factory disconnect on my trailer, switch in pass-thru not on panel, is pretty much the opposite. It disconnects, awning, slides, jacks... things you wouldn't want activated during travel. Leaves fridge, lights, etc. alone. There is a label near switch that explains it as such.

No consistency it seems.
__________________
Wxman
2018 Passport Elite 19RB (sold)
2021 Jayco Eagle HT 274CKDS
2017 Silverado Z71 5.3L 3.42 gears(sold)
2021 Sierra 2500 4x4 CCSB SLT (gas)
E4 16k/1.6k hitch
Wxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2021, 06:27 PM   #6
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxman View Post
Slightly related FWIW. The factory disconnect on my trailer, switch in pass-thru not on panel, is pretty much the opposite. It disconnects, awning, slides, jacks... things you wouldn't want activated during travel. Leaves fridge, lights, etc. alone. There is a label near switch that explains it as such.

No consistency it seems.
I'm not sure which "my trailer" you're referring to, the 2018 Passport or the 2021 Jayco that your signature says is "on order"...

Keystone introduced a "new concept in battery disconnect hardware" called the Giggybox in 2020. That system may or may not be on the OP's Fuzion. It is an entirely different functional concept from the older "battery cutoff switch" that disconnected "some circuits" but left others "always on". If you're referring to comparisons between the OP's 2021 Fuzion and your 2018 Passport, they are probably apples/oranges by comparison. I've no idea what Jayco is doing in their 2021 trailers, so some detailed explanations of what that system does/doesn't do would go a long way toward understanding that system and how it relates to the Keystone Fuzion wiring.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 12:00 AM   #7
Essvar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Eugene
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadevb View Post
I have a 2021 Keystone Fuzion 367.
There have been a few minor issues with construction, but overall not too bad considering it was a covid build.

However, I am curious what the electrical disconnect does on the courtesy panel.

I can't tell that it does anything. Possibly it is not connected properly?


I expected it to throw a relay on at least some of the electrical circuits. However, from limited testing everything still is operational regardless of switch position. Would be nice to have it disconnect power to leveler for security purposes.



Anyone have information on the schematic for the disconnect?
Thanks in advance.
Wade
You won’t find a wiring diagram, however when the key is removed in the convenience center the disconnect should shut off all 12v power to your unit “except” the landing gear/leveling which is secured behind a locked door. If you can still operate the in-command or any other 12v functions it is not working correctly.
Essvar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 05:17 AM   #8
Wxman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: West Central IN
Posts: 141
Why I said only slightly related. The Jayco has a control panel and a bluetooth app. The OEM disconnect disconnects items one wouldn't want moving during travel, but that could accidently be activated by the app. As far as I can tell it disconnects slides, jacks (does have autolevel), and awnings. Nothing else that I can tell. The label next to the switch says it should be disconnected for travel.
__________________
Wxman
2018 Passport Elite 19RB (sold)
2021 Jayco Eagle HT 274CKDS
2017 Silverado Z71 5.3L 3.42 gears(sold)
2021 Sierra 2500 4x4 CCSB SLT (gas)
E4 16k/1.6k hitch
Wxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 06:24 AM   #9
Wadevb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Dallas
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essvar View Post
You won’t find a wiring diagram, however when the key is removed in the convenience center the disconnect should shut off all 12v power to your unit “except” the landing gear/leveling which is secured behind a locked door. If you can still operate the in-command or any other 12v functions it is not working correctly.
Interesting. I have not removed the key, but it rotates. I assume the switch is activated by the rotation and not the removal.

I am not near the rig until this weekend, but will test more thoroughly to verify.

Next to the panel is a light for the power amplifier for TV antenna. I would expect it to go off with the cuttoff, but it does not.
There are so many electronics on this rig, that I installed a 150W panel to help keep it charged if I lose shore power. It is under a awning, so I probably only get 30 watts of power on good days.
Thanks.
Wadevb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 06:27 AM   #10
Wadevb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Dallas
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essvar View Post
You won’t find a wiring diagram, however when the key is removed in the convenience center the disconnect should shut off all 12v power to your unit “except” the landing gear/leveling which is secured behind a locked door. If you can still operate the in-command or any other 12v functions it is not working correctly.
Understood. But "secured" behind locked door with a 751 key. Not very secure.
I think I will try install a hidden cutoff somewhere when I have time to trace out the wiring to just disable the jacks. Better wait until my warranty is up though.
-Thanks.
Wadevb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2021, 07:07 AM   #11
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,839
On many of the newer rigs with the "red switch type" battery cutoff, there is no means to completely disconnect the battery. It is "wired that way" at Keystone so that some systems remain powered on. Things like the InCommand system (so you can wake up the trailer using your phone from a remote location), memory circuits in the radio, the CO monitor, the LPG monitor also are "always on".

To the best of what I've seen, read and heard, in the "red switch type" BCO, there is no means to completely disconnect the battery other than to physically remove either the + or - battery cable (or another makeshift method of disconnecting a wire further down the circuit).

On the Giggybox type system, there is a "designed inside that box" circuit that does remove all power to the trailer, even the safety monitors and "always on remote control system". In that type BCO, it appears that the only "always on" systems are the breakaway switch that powers the brakes when the pin is pulled and, if connected, a solar charging circuit that bypasses the "off position" to maintain solar charging from the rooftop panels.

Now, the "problem as I see it" is this: There are no wiring diagrams for the trailer models that are made available by Keystone, so as far as I can tell, no dealership can "confirm that the trailer is wired to factory specifications" because Keystone will not provide the "factory specifications" to the dealership.... What they do provide is "bits and pieces" to solve individual issues via warranty repairs.....

So, there is slim hope that all Keystone models are "wired the same and function the same" coming off the line. But, when a specific owner has a specific problem and his dealership attempts to "verify the wiring is correct" it seems that each of those issues is a "shot in the dark" because the "correct wiring diagram is not available to confirm the trailer is wired correctly"... What is available is the wiring within each component (from the component manufacturer) and a colorcoded wiring chart (to aid in running wires during troubleshooting)...

Unlike Airstream and many other THOR products, there is simply no "technical wiring diagrams" to help either dealerships or owners...

IMO, even comparing two "same model trailers" sitting side by side, there's no assurance that both will have the same wiring connected and run the same way in the same location.... They may be "close to the same" and even have "the same color wires on each component" but when you "dig into the bowels of the beast" there will be enough differences in how they're wired to make them "close enough to recognize how it's supposed to work" but not "close enough to expect the same thing in the same place in both....

Sort of like "sister-in-law close but not sister close".....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 05:43 AM   #12
Wadevb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Dallas
Posts: 4
Thanks John. That fits my understanding of how these are put together.



I question the value of the cut-off switch (assuming most things stay powered)
I still need to do more thorough testing.


I assumed this was a, I am going to let this sit for month+, and don't want to drain battery. But with all the electronics on, that will not do anything.


I half expect to look behind the panel, and see nothing connected.
Appreciate your insight.
-Wade
Wadevb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 07:17 PM   #13
Essvar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Eugene
Posts: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadevb View Post
Understood. But "secured" behind locked door with a 751 key. Not very secure.
I think I will try install a hidden cutoff somewhere when I have time to trace out the wiring to just disable the jacks. Better wait until my warranty is up though.
-Thanks.
Circling back here, yes you are right… not super secure so adding another disconnect wouldn’t be a bad idea. But I can tell you that the new fuzion stock disconnect cuts power to everything except the landing gear, including the iN·command system. I’ve powered down my landing gear and used the disconnect, came back 1 month later and my crappy stock batteries were still at 11.5v
Essvar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 08:28 AM   #14
Gunny Mike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Peru
Posts: 133
I remove the battery when not in use and keep it connected to a 100 watt solar panel. Don't have battery issues anymore and it's fully charged for our next outing. When stored for the winter the battery gets connected and plugged into the house.
Gunny Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 10:06 AM   #15
LCrabtree
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Paige
Posts: 33
Safety Considerations

For safety reasons, most factory installed 'master disconnect' switches will NOT disconnect the trailer braking system, or the CO / smoke detectors, nor any of the chassis wiring (which is supplied power from the TV). For convenience I would not want to disconnect the frig as it requires 12VDC to run the PC board even if running on 120VAC or propane.
__________________
LarryBeen there
Done that
Got the tee shirt
LCrabtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 11:20 AM   #16
GHen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Rock Island
Posts: 457
Battery disconnect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essvar View Post
Circling back here, yes you are right… not super secure so adding another disconnect wouldn’t be a bad idea. But I can tell you that the new fuzion stock disconnect cuts power to everything except the landing gear, including the iN·command system. I’ve powered down my landing gear and used the disconnect, came back 1 month later and my crappy stock batteries were still at 11.5v

I would be concerned about letting the batteries get to 11.5 v.
As an example a battery with a dead cell is 11.7. Yours was probably still at 11.5 since there wasn’t enough voltage to run anything.

I try to never let Anything get under 12.2 to prevent damage to the batteries.
GHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 11:24 AM   #17
GHen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Rock Island
Posts: 457

Name:   IMG_0003.jpg
Views: 716
Size:  24.4 KB
This might explain what I’m suggesting.
GHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 12:48 PM   #18
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCrabtree View Post
For safety reasons, most factory installed 'master disconnect' switches will NOT disconnect the trailer braking system, or the CO / smoke detectors, nor any of the chassis wiring (which is supplied power from the TV). For convenience I would not want to disconnect the frig as it requires 12VDC to run the PC board even if running on 120VAC or propane.
Just FYI!
The smoke detectors are powered by a 9 volt battery in the device.
The CO/LP detectors are typically wired directly to the onboard 12 volt batteries & will chirp when those batteries get low.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 02:19 PM   #19
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadevb View Post
Interesting. I have not removed the key, but it rotates. I assume the switch is activated by the rotation and not the removal.
Yes. Don't try to remove it in the off position -- turn it past the off position to remove it. The removal notch is cleverly hidden until after you have successfully figured out how to remove the key.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2021, 03:06 PM   #20
Cracker
Senior Member
 
Cracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Maine
Posts: 103
Having experienced two battery freeze-ups in a late-model Airstream - where the batteries were supposingly disconnected by a switch - my sage advice is to simply remove the batteries for the winter if you can't keep your unit plugged in. Of course, I'm talking about northern Maine winters and 20 degrees below zero.
__________________
Currently, R-Vision Town & Country B+.
Cracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.