Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Modifications and Upgrades
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-28-2018, 04:33 PM   #1
BSHGTO
Member
 
BSHGTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Hagerstown Md.
Posts: 73
XFactors

We go to a camp on a regular bases (Lake Raystown) and I have to do a REAL tight turn to back in our favorite spot, almost 90 degrees and when I get out to check my position mid turn I've noticed my wheels are bent outwards to the point that it scares me. This was with my last camper a High Country. So now that I have a real heavy beast for a camper I was thinking the rotational forces would be even greater on the wheels, axles and frame. Going to this camp soon when the weather breaks I thought I should nip the potential problem in the bud before it becomes a problem like the guy below that twisted his spring preaches and frame to the point of destruction. Given that the materials are no different on the new unit, same cheap springs, axles , wheels and frames by Lippert but with heavy duty Sailuns now with sidewalls the strength of Hercules, that aren't going to flex an inch to help the situation.
So what to do? Install Morryde XFactors, proven to help.
Called Morryde to talk to an engineer about the compatibility of the new Road Armor equalizer with the XFactors. He said ALL large campers should have this or some thing like it installed from the factory. I mentioned the fact that most new heavy campers are coming with tires with much stronger sidewalls, he said yep that would be the reason to do it. The tires won`t move so the frame will.
Ordered them up $265.00 for 3 sets one for each spring perch, 3 days to the door step, 1 ½ hours to put on. Now the grinding and twisting from any degree turn will be minimized. Saved the frame?.....Maybe……. Wasted my dollars……. maybe……..Can't hurt.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bighorn Frame-Suspension Damage 010.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	202.4 KB
ID:	15468   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bighorn Frame-Suspension Damage 013.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	147.1 KB
ID:	15469   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0774.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	253.8 KB
ID:	15470   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0776.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	230.1 KB
ID:	15471  
__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791 Rear Den, 2018 Ford F350 Dually 6.7 5995 lb payload
Electric brakes …. Disk Brakes....it`s the only way
Andersen Ult TrailAir pin box X Factors MoRryde SRE 4000....smooth ride
BSHGTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 04:41 PM   #2
BSHGTO
Member
 
BSHGTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Hagerstown Md.
Posts: 73
this is why

This goes with the post above on the flexing issue. Watch the video at the beginning then move to the 2:59 mark and watch the frame and the spring perches move around.




__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791 Rear Den, 2018 Ford F350 Dually 6.7 5995 lb payload
Electric brakes …. Disk Brakes....it`s the only way
Andersen Ult TrailAir pin box X Factors MoRryde SRE 4000....smooth ride
BSHGTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 04:59 PM   #3
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 13,387
This is not meant to be smarta##d remark but I don't think I would have a "favorite" spot that required me to kick it to 90 degrees on a regular basis. I've done it, I've watched the stress on the trailer and the tires get way out of whack so I choose not to do it unless totally necessary. I don't think with the way a trailer is built and with the geometry of the suspension that you can't help but wear/bend components way too fast over time trying to push all the components sideways instead of going straight. JMO
__________________
Danny & Susan wife of 54 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 05:24 PM   #4
BSHGTO
Member
 
BSHGTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Hagerstown Md.
Posts: 73
yep

yep, pull through sites are great and are my first choice if the camp has them but not always available, Army Corps of Engineers utilizes every sq. foot they can in their designs of campgrounds around lakes and dams so no pull through at my favorite lake. You have to deal with the cards your dealt if you want the exceptional scenery they provide in their parks.
__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791 Rear Den, 2018 Ford F350 Dually 6.7 5995 lb payload
Electric brakes …. Disk Brakes....it`s the only way
Andersen Ult TrailAir pin box X Factors MoRryde SRE 4000....smooth ride
BSHGTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 06:40 PM   #5
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 13,387
I agree, COE campgrounds tend to maximize their "space" and I've never been to one where the best spots were pull through - if they had them. On the other hand, I've never been to one where the nicest spots all required a 90 degree push to get in. Just food for thought. Good luck on the mod.
__________________
Danny & Susan wife of 54 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 10:20 PM   #6
trucker LOU
Senior Member
 
trucker LOU's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 188
If it is possible to wet the pavement before you back in the tires will slide some and not put as much side load on the suspension.----Lou----
trucker LOU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 03:49 AM   #7
Tinner12002
Senior Member
 
Tinner12002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
spring hangers

Interesting video, with the hanger system that was on that RV he definitely needed the cross bracing being the spring eye being so far away from the attachment point of the hangers, a whole lot of leverage can happen on the hangers with that system or any system like it that moves the spring eye away from the top of the hanger in my opinion. Most hangers are welded to the bottom beam flange which also lets the hanger flex. Lippert uses a little piece of metal welded on an angle to help with beam flexing but the proper way to do it is with a full gusset welded in from flange to flange on both sides of the I-beam, like I pictured on the left side of the beam pic, where the hangers are attached. Boxing in the outer end of the hangers would also help. Tried to enclose a drawing, hopefully understandable.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180301_063715.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	89.3 KB
ID:	15483  
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
Tinner12002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 04:36 AM   #8
BSHGTO
Member
 
BSHGTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Hagerstown Md.
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I agree, COE campgrounds tend to maximize their "space" and I've never been to one where the best spots were pull through - if they had them. On the other hand, I've never been to one where the nicest spots all required a 90 degree push to get in. Just food for thought. Good luck on the mod.
I said almost 90 degree but of course this is just an estimate and I didn`t say all either. But the camp we like to go to in Myrtle beach ALL the spots that back up to the lake are 90 degree about 20 out of maybe a 1000 spots. Even if you book a year in advance your lucky to get one. Just food for thought.
__________________
2018.5 Montana 3791 Rear Den, 2018 Ford F350 Dually 6.7 5995 lb payload
Electric brakes …. Disk Brakes....it`s the only way
Andersen Ult TrailAir pin box X Factors MoRryde SRE 4000....smooth ride
BSHGTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 05:21 AM   #9
Dave W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Saratoga Springs,
Posts: 1,131
BSHGTO and I had this discussion on another site.

As a caution to others considering this mod, I've put an X factor on the center hanger but have interference at the other two hangers - the gas line on the front and the galley tank drain on the rear hangers. Since I'll be doing other work on the suspension, will be rerouting the gas line then making up my own design hanger brace for the rear. Also. be aware that you have to replace the hanger bolt with their supplied wet bolt.

A personal comment here - these X Factor cross members would be better if they were main trailer frame supported but then you might need a heavier hanger. This design will at least dampen some of the flex ( I sure wish these current trailers had a heavy forged hanger like my long gone Kountry Aire had)
Dave W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 05:59 AM   #10
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 13,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSHGTO View Post
I said almost 90 degree but of course this is just an estimate and I didn`t say all either. But the camp we like to go to in Myrtle beach ALL the spots that back up to the lake are 90 degree about 20 out of maybe a 1000 spots. Even if you book a year in advance your lucky to get one. Just food for thought.

I wish you luck in getting the one you like best.
__________________
Danny & Susan wife of 54 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2021, 03:16 AM   #11
DavidAndDonna
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Wilmington
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinner12002 View Post
Interesting video, with the hanger system that was on that RV he definitely needed the cross bracing being the spring eye being so far away from the attachment point of the hangers, a whole lot of leverage can happen on the hangers with that system or any system like it that moves the spring eye away from the top of the hanger in my opinion. Most hangers are welded to the bottom beam flange which also lets the hanger flex. Lippert uses a little piece of metal welded on an angle to help with beam flexing but the proper way to do it is with a full gusset welded in from flange to flange on both sides of the I-beam, like I pictured on the left side of the beam pic, where the hangers are attached. Boxing in the outer end of the hangers would also help. Tried to enclose a drawing, hopefully understandable.
I see this is an old thread however, your beam support is right on.
What would be the downside to just weld tubes to the spring hangers rather than bolt?
I see the X-Factor bolts atop of the spring hanger and the main stress of the hanger is the bolt running thru spring, ewhich is below.
Seems a tube welded solid to the spring hanger would be a better way to go?

Any inut?
__________________
Avalanche 312RS
2021 Ram 3500 Cummins Dually
DavidAndDonna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 01:09 AM   #12
DavidAndDonna
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Wilmington
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
This is not meant to be smarta##d remark but I don't think I would have a "favorite" spot that required me to kick it to 90 degrees on a regular basis. I've done it, I've watched the stress on the trailer and the tires get way out of whack so I choose not to do it unless totally necessary. I don't think with the way a trailer is built and with the geometry of the suspension that you can't help but wear/bend components way too fast over time trying to push all the components sideways instead of going straight. JMO

What would be the downside to just weld tubes to the spring hangers rather than bolt?
I see the X-Factor bolts atop of the spring hanger and the main stress of the hanger is the bolt running thru spring, which is below.
Seems a tube welded solid to the spring hanger would be an easier and faster mod?
seems one could cut out the bottom of the tube wall to access the spring hanger bolt.
Your thoughts?
__________________
Avalanche 312RS
2021 Ram 3500 Cummins Dually
DavidAndDonna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 02:32 AM   #13
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAndDonna View Post
What would be the downside to just weld tubes to the spring hangers rather than bolt?
I see the X-Factor bolts atop of the spring hanger and the main stress of the hanger is the bolt running thru spring, which is below.
Seems a tube welded solid to the spring hanger would be an easier and faster mod?
seems one could cut out the bottom of the tube wall to access the spring hanger bolt.
Your thoughts?
My first thought would be that once you welded the braces to the hangers you would have to cut them off to replace or repair anything above them such as holding tanks.

Just a thought...
Javi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 08:00 AM   #14
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 22,628
I agree with Javi. The X-Factor cross braces are designed to be removeable. That makes the space above the axles and suspension accessible for work or repairs. If you've ever pulled the coroplast from that area, just having the axles 10-12 inches below is an obstacle that's frustrating to manage. Having cross braces 2" below the coroplast would make getting it off "impossible without more profanity than "nice words"....

I don't see any way to get into the belly in that area without cutting "welded cross braces" off the spring hangers.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 08:38 AM   #15
DavidAndDonna
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Wilmington
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi View Post
My first thought would be that once you welded the braces to the hangers you would have to cut them off to replace or repair anything above them such as holding tanks.

Just a thought...
I wouldn't be doing a repair like that however, valid point.
bolt on would be better in that respect.
looks like the plates on the end of the Xfactor are about 3/8" thick. A doable fab mod
__________________
Avalanche 312RS
2021 Ram 3500 Cummins Dually
DavidAndDonna is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.