“Some” outlets not working

[RVGator]

Ran into an issue at the tail end of our recent trip. The outlets in the bunkhouse and outside kitchen were working fine for most of the trip but at the end had no power and continue to be without power. 2022 Keystone Avalanche 378bh. The outlets in the 1/2 bath are working fine which is also in the bunkhouse. All are labeled that they are on GFI. I have verified that the GFI breaker is on and working. The other outlets connected to the same GFI breaker are working just fine. The outlets in question are all on the same wall with the bunkhouse tv cubby being the same wall that the outlets in the outdoor kitchen share. When the outlets went out I had just plugged in a small 1500 Watt Electric Forced air portable heater to heat the bunkhouse up for the kiddos prior to bedtime. It was plugged into a power strip and then into the 1 outlet in the cubby in the bunkhouse.

I obviously can take it into the dealer, but given that my 2 choices for warranty work are 2 hours away I don’t want to make the drive if it potentially is a simple issue. I am thinking of removing the outlet to check for loose wires, etc. this weekend but any other troubleshooting ideas are welcome.

Thanks.

[ChuckS]

If you have the electrical skills I would verify the 120 VAC breaker for those outlets is good and power is coming out of that specific breaker.. If yes then TS the outlets downstream as they are daisy chained together

[wiredgeorge]

Perhaps this would be a good time to start ridding the camper of those RV outlets and use shallow electrical boxes with good quality outlets where you can put the hot/neutral wires on lugs instead of the junk used in an RV. The RV outlets may not even be in a box but have wings that swivel out and catch the wall board.

[RVGator]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

If you have the electrical skills I would verify the 120 VAC breaker for those outlets is good and power is coming out of that specific breaker.. If yes then TS the outlets downstream as they are daisy chained together

The breaker is the same breaker for other outlets so I know it is working. I was surprised to find that for all of the “GFI” outlets they tie into 1 breaker. Seems like a lot of outlets for only 1.

I will start the TS this weekend. 3 outlets in the outside kitchen and 1 in the bunkhouse.

[RVGator]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Perhaps this would be a good time to start ridding the camper of those RV outlets and use shallow electrical boxes with good quality outlets where you can put the hot/neutral wires on lugs instead of the junk used in an RV. The RV outlets may not even be in a box but have wings that swivel out and catch the wall board.

Probably a good idea. I know they aren’t secured very well because when you pull a plug out of it it wants to pull the whole gizmo out of the wall, so you have to hold it in with your hand while pulling the power cord.

[jasin1]

If you do get it figured out I would definitely not plug it back into a power strip..that’s not a safe way to do it

And I would go over everything again…look for a outside gfci. Maybe in an outdoor kitchen? See if that tripped…double check all the breakers by turning them completely off and then back on…more things are overlooked when a person is absolutely convinced they checked something already or they are SURE it can’t be this or that…good luck…was a post last week about the same thing I believe maybe not a heater but outlets that were not working and it was the gfci


Could also be a receptacle burned up from drawing high amps like you mentioned…we talked about that 2 days ago on here

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RVGator

The breaker is the same breaker for other outlets so I know it is working. I was surprised to find that for all of the “GFI” outlets they tie into 1 breaker. Seems like a lot of outlets for only 1.

I will start the TS this weekend. 3 outlets in the outside kitchen and 1 in the bunkhouse.

Are you talking about a gfi breaker or gfi outlets? You might want to double check any of those outlets that could be exposed to water; outside, passthru, kitchen, bathroom etc. and see if you don't have a gfi outlet tripped. After you find that issue you need to identify what outlets work off what breakers and always monitor your power usage into that particular breaker - never 2 space heaters or heater with coffee pot/hair dryer/etc. etc.

[RVGator]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Are you talking about a gfi breaker or gfi outlets? You might want to double check any of those outlets that could be exposed to water; outside, passthru, kitchen, bathroom etc. and see if you don't have a gfi outlet tripped. After you find that issue you need to identify what outlets work off what breakers and always monitor your power usage into that particular breaker - never 2 space heaters or heater with coffee pot/hair dryer/etc. etc.

I have looked at all the outlets to see if any are true GFI outlets with reset buttons on them but have not found any. They all seem to be connected to a 15Amp breaker that is clearly labeled GFI in the breaker panel. Stumping me a bit as there outlets in the master bedroom(in the front) and all the way in the back all controlled by same breaker which would indicate they are all daisy chained together. Other outlets not labeled as “GFI” and some labeled Solar Inverted which are tied to my inverter.

Someone mentioned that I may have fried an outlet when plugging the 1500 Watt heater into it and going to investigate that this weekend when I can get at it. I have run the same heater on the same outlet in the past without issue so this is perplexing.

Will let everyone know what I find.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by RVGator

I have looked at all the outlets to see if any are true GFI outlets with reset buttons on them but have not found any. They all seem to be connected to a 15Amp breaker that is clearly labeled GFI in the breaker panel. Stumping me a bit as there outlets in the master bedroom(in the front) and all the way in the back all controlled by same breaker which would indicate they are all daisy chained together. Other outlets not labeled as “GFI” and some labeled Solar Inverted which are tied to my inverter.

Someone mentioned that I may have fried an outlet when plugging the 1500 Watt heater into it and going to investigate that this weekend when I can get at it. I have run the same heater on the same outlet in the past without issue so this is perplexing.

Will let everyone know what I find.

You should look for a gfci outlet in your trailer …the actual outlet not a breaker..there is probably one in your kitchen..one in your bathroom..maybe one in an outside kitchen..possibly one mounted in an outside receptacle
This could be the first outlet in a daisy chain of the outlets affected…if it trips (the outlet not the breaker) then all the rest of the outlets in that daisy chain will not work. It could be your bathroom and the outlets in question are all on the same circuit….find ALL of your gfci outlets and hit test and reset on them….it may NOT be the breaker …just the gfci outlet

Do that before you start removing outlets to check them..you could damage them in the process and cause more problems…also shut off all power and inverters before you start pulling receptacles out of the wall

[ChuckS]

Since you have 120 volts to the Load IN side of the GFCI and you state two outlets on the Load OUT side of the GFCI are working then this is most likely where your issue is at..

The OEM Self contained RV wall outlets are junk... see image.. They will not carry high current loads well for a long duration

1500Watts / 120 Volts = 12.5 amps

Also those outlets are most likely connected with a quick splice as shown in second image... these love to melt and burn apart under sustained high current loads...

[flybouy]

When the outlets went out I had just plugged in a small 1500 Watt Electric Forced air portable heater to heat the bunkhouse up for the kiddos prior to bedtime. It was plugged into a power strip and then into the 1 outlet in the cubby in the bunkhouse.

You should never plug a space heater into a power strip or extension cord. That warning should be on a label on the heater itself and in the instruction manual if it's a UL listed/approved appliance. A "power strip" may not have sufficiant wire size or outlets to support the load. The same applies to extension cords, especially with the proliferation of Chinese junk and knock-off junk, some with fake UL labels.

Many power strips and extension cords have very weak female recepticals to make them easy to use as well as less expensive to make. The outlets for your house come in different grades/ratings as well. Naturally the outlets in campers are the bottom of the barrel. The highest quality are "hospital grade". If you want to find out the difference go to the big box or electrical supply house and take a 15 amp male plug andI and plug it in to the 99 cent receptical and then the hospital grade to feel the difference. IF, and it's a BIG IF, I absolutly needed to use an extension I would go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a length of 12/2 SO cable and quality plug and receptical and make one.

[Pull Toy]

+1 for Flyboy!!!

Never use high draw 120's on a cheap interior grade 14/2 extension cord or power strip. Every Campground Power Pedestal has extra 110v outlets. Don't strain your camper system, plug in here.

A substantial 12/2 + ground from the Pedestal straight to your appliance will take your rigs circuits out of the equation, and eliminate the voltage drop of extra footage on your circuit.

Check every outlet, even behind the outside access door to your refrigerator, I'd be willing to bet you finds a tripped GFCI.

Good Luck,

[RVGator]

Thank you all for your help. Duly noted on the forced air heater.

I spent 3 hours today looking in every nook and cranny. The only actual GFI, that I have found, is in the master bath which is in the front of the camper. I tripped it a few times and noted which outlets work with it. There absolutely should be another one in the 1/2 bath in the bunkhouse but there is not. You would expect to find one in the kitchen as well but I did not find one. After all that I took the outlet apart to put my meter on the romex and it has no power coming to it so the outlet seems to be fine.

I even called the dealer but all they could offer was that sometimes they hide the GFI’s behind sinks, I n cabinets, etc. checked it all again with no luck.

I should also mention that I had 5 adults and 2 kids looking for another GFI outlet and they couldn’t find one either.

So still have power in 1/2 bath outlet, no power at outlet in bunkhouse and no power in the 3 outlets in the outside kitchen which are all labeled GFCI protected.

Frustrated so I’m done for the day on that.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by RVGator

Thank you all for your help. Duly noted on the forced air heater.

I spent 3 hours today looking in every nook and cranny. The only actual GFI, that I have found, is in the master bath which is in the front of the camper. I tripped it a few times and noted which outlets work with it. There absolutely should be another one in the 1/2 bath in the bunkhouse but there is not. You would expect to find one in the kitchen as well but I did not find one. After all that I took the outlet apart to put my meter on the romex and it has no power coming to it so the outlet seems to be fine.

I even called the dealer but all they could offer was that sometimes they hide the GFI’s behind sinks, I n cabinets, etc. checked it all again with no luck.

I should also mention that I had 5 adults and 2 kids looking for another GFI outlet and they couldn’t find one either.

So still have power in 1/2 bath outlet, no power at outlet in bunkhouse and no power in the 3 outlets in the outside kitchen which are all labeled GFCI protected.

Frustrated so I’m done for the day on that.

Well you found one GFI outlet, you tripped it to see what died, you said in master bath.
Did it affect any kitchen outlets? Do you have an outside outlet is it working?

[jxnbbl]

Just curious - do trailers use/have gfci breakers....hence no outlet for some circuits. I have a hard time believing that all outlets in the bath, kitchen, outside, etc are all on one circuit protected by one outlet....as all these locations would require the protection.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

Just curious - do trailers use/have gfci breakers....hence no outlet for some circuits. I have a hard time believing that all outlets in the bath, kitchen, outside, etc are all on one circuit protected by one outlet....as all these locations would require the protection.

Yes ... If the wiring is OEM then there is at least ONE GFCI and they usually DO TIE IN the kitchen, bathroom and outside outlet all on that one GFCI..

It depends on the builder and who installed the wiring I would guess.. Since Keystone has "No Wiring Diagrams" available who knows how things are wired unless you trace the outlets...

My current Keystone Alpine has all the above outlets tied to one GFCI in the bathroom (OEM wiring)

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

Just curious - do trailers use/have gfci breakers....hence no outlet for some circuits. I have a hard time believing that all outlets in the bath, kitchen, outside, etc are all on one circuit protected by one outlet....as all these locations would require the protection.

Not likely, as a GFI breaker cost about twice as much as a GFI outlet.

Back to the OP situation, I would find the outlet nearest the breaker panel and test it for incoming power. if no incoming power the issue is possibly a loose connection in the breaker panel, or a bad breaker.

[Ram Nation]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Yes ... If the wiring is OEM then there is at least ONE GFCI and they usually DO TIE IN the kitchen, bathroom and outside outlet all on that one GFCI..

It depends on the builder and who installed the wiring I would guess.. Since Keystone has "No Wiring Diagrams" available who knows how things are wired unless you trace the outlets...

My current Keystone Alpine has all the above outlets tied to one GFCI in the bathroom (OEM wiring)

Our 2020 Alpine is the same. A total of 7 outlets tied to one GFCI bathroom GFCI with a single 15 amp breaker.

[RVGator]

The problem is resolved. I thank all of you for your inputs. They were all very helpful.

Indeed the 1 GFCI outlet in the master bathroom is the only true GFCI outlet controlling all of the GFI protected outlets. In addition the breaker in the panel labeled GFI also covers these outlets.

After searching for an additional GFI, taking off the 1 outlet cover that I thought the problem was in I had an epiphany over the weekend and decided to take the cover off of the last outlet in the camper, which was in the half bath in the bunkhouse, prior to these outlets to see what was what. Sure enough there was a simple loose wire.

Simply trying to stuff the wire back into the crappy outlets they give you wasn’t working as Keystone had stuffed 3 sets of Romex into this 1 outlet and there isn’t enough room in the brass sleeves for them all to slide in which is why it easily popped out. Why it coincided with when I plugged in the space heater is something I don’t understand but nonetheless this was the problem.

To fix it I bought a regular plug and skinny box from the hardware store and put it back the way it should have been done originally.

Problem solved and now hopefully I can sleep through the night again instead of thinking about how to solve electrical problems…

Thank you all again for all the comments, they sure do help to keep the juices flowing on ideas. Love this forum.

[rjrelander]

Good job finding and fixing it. If you sent it to the shop, it would probably still be sitting in the lot waiting to be looked at.