Water heater inside switch

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Recently purchased our 21 avalanche 312rs and have a question about the water heater on electric? I know there wre 2 switches for the electric side.(1@ the heater and 1 inside on the control panel). My problem is that that switch on the control panel seems to do nothing. Water heats when I turn on outside switch but not when I use the inside switch. The gas switch turns on a pilot light between the two switches but electric switch does nothing. Also for others, make sure the water heater power cord is plugged in from the factory. Mine was not. Unfortunately that did not fix my problem.

[JRTJH]

The switches are NOT interconnected. The outside switch is a "fail-safe always off/sometimes on" type connection. If the outside switch is ON, then the inside switch will control the water heater electric operation. If the outside switch is OFF, then NOTHING INSIDE WORKS on the electric side....

The switch is intentionally wired that way as a "positive means to turn off the water heater". If that switch is off, then you simply can not energize the electric side of the heater from any location.... Prevents lots of errors from happening that way....

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Thats not how mine is setup. If the outside switch is on, the heater is on no matter what position the inside switch. If the outside switch is off, then the heater does not work. after digging a little further this morning, it looks like the orange wire from the load side of the inside switch is not hooked up to anything. It is just capped off before the water heater circuit board.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Gmcjimmy4x4

Thats not how mine is setup. If the outside switch is on, the heater is on no matter what position the inside switch. If the outside switch is off, then the heater does not work. after digging a little further this morning, it looks like the orange wire from the load side of the inside switch is not hooked up to anything. It is just capped off before the water heater circuit board.

Do you have an "inside electric switch" ??? Or like mine, it's an "inside gas switch" with no "inside electric switch" (except for the circuit breaker in the power panel),,,

Some trailers have BOTH a gas and an electric switch inside on the status panel. Many (maybe even most) only have a gas control switch on that status panel....

Before you go "rewiring and improving what the factory installed".... Take a minute and be POSITIVE that you have TWO inside switches, one for gas and one for electricity. Otherwise, that "orange wire is not used on your trailer"...

ADDED: Keystone, in their quest for using common equipment in multiple trailers, often installs control panels with slots for 3 slides in trailers that only have one or maybe two slides, and with slots for switches that control "NOTHING". Your trailer may be one of those with a water heater switch that is intended for use with an Atwood water heater (dual switch function) and the factory installed a Suburban water heater (for unknown reasons) in your specific trailer, but did not change out the control panel inside....

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Mine has switch for gas and electric inside control panel. Both have wires hooked up to them but the electric switch leg seems to he a dead end at the water heater control panel. Why would they supply a switch labeled electric and wire to it if it doesn't do anything?

[Javi]

My Avalanche has a Suburban water heater and it has a switch on the heater as all Suburban's do but I also have a switch in the control panel and both must be on for the water heater to work. My Cougar also had a Suburban WH but only the switch on the WH.

[LHaven]

This is somewhat scary. The capped off lead suggests that either Amos had a brain bubble, or he discovered the switch didn't function so he wired the control box straight to positive. Or, he used the wrong model control box and it didn't have the connection port he needed.

I would unplug the switch, verify with an ohmmeter that it functions on and off, and that the red lead is feeding +12. The get a schematic for the control box and see where that switch lead is supposed to connect (my guess would be the red lead on top, but I wouldn't act on a guess). Edit: I take that back. The red feed wire is obviously a larger gauge than the switch wire. The switch wire must operate a relay. There should be a port on the gray box for it somewhere.

Or, if "recently" is really recently, i'd bring it back to the dealer and tell him it's clearly a warranty problem. Especially if they have to replace the connector box with the right model.

[sourdough]

OP Javi's description of the operation of his Cougar sure sounds like what you have.

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Reading here on another thread that there are 2 models of suburban water heaters. One has the relay option for a remote switch and the other dies not. Looks like keystone wired for the remote version but maybe installed the other one. Possibly lack of parts availability? Covid affects are catching up with many industries of production goods. Only had the trailer for 2 months and ac thermostat does not work the ac, now water heater issue. Was rpld by dealer they are scheduling into October right now.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Gmcjimmy4x4

Reading here on another thread that there are 2 models of suburban water heaters. One has the relay option for a remote switch and the other dies not. Looks like keystone wired for the remote version but maybe installed the other one. Possibly lack of parts availability? Covid affects are catching up with many industries of production goods. Only had the trailer for 2 months and ac thermostat does not work the ac, now water heater issue. Was rpld by dealer they are scheduling into October right now.

October? You need to spend some time at that dealership and cultivate relationships from the GM/owner on down. I like them to say "when do you want to bring it in"?

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Dealers are crazy busy right now. We bought it 100
miles from home because of the low availability of the model we were looking for. The local keystone dealer said they won't even take appointments unless they sold us the trailer. They can barely take care of their own customers right now. Keystone was supposed to send me the new thermostat to install myself but the one that came with our trailer is back ordered. Its been numerous emails and phone calls and I still don't have a working ac. Its over 100 degrees here. Not too happy with keystone warranty/customer service at this point. You don't spend this much money on a brand new rv to have to deal with this crap.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Gmcjimmy4x4

Dealers are crazy busy right now. We bought it 100
miles from home because of the low availability of the model we were looking for. The local keystone dealer said they won't even take appointments unless they sold us the trailer. They can barely take care of their own customers right now. Keystone was supposed to send me the new thermostat to install myself but the one that came with our trailer is back ordered. Its been numerous emails and phone calls and I still don't have a working ac. Its over 100 degrees here. Not too happy with keystone warranty/customer service at this point. You don't spend this much money on a brand new rv to have to deal with this crap.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Your selling dealer should be taking care of you. In my part of the world 100mi. is like going around the block. Plus, if you want it done quickly you need to look to them as their customer; you can't expect a dealer to place you in the front of the line in front of the folks that bought from them. Lack of parts etc. is not a Keystone issue, it's apparently worldwide and you need to have some sort of inside track. When my Suburban water heater crapped out they said they were on backorder and the timeline was xxx. I told them I'm coming in and I need that relay, where do we get it asap? "We've got one and we will hold it for you". I said put it aside with my name on it and I'll pick it up when I get back. Over and done. That happens from LOTS of one on one contact, interaction, "shooting the breeze", etc. but if getting things done is important you need to expend that time.....and buy from the folks you ask to do you favors.

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

I was just looking for other options after the dealer i bought from said they couldn't make an appointment for me untill October! And that was just for a bad thermostat. As far as keystone goes, it's hard to believe that they cannot supply me with something to correct a simple problem like a thermostat? I can buy the same one or even the digital model on Amazon right now. I even have an extended warranty but was told it does not take affect untill the factory warranty Is up.just feel like they got my money and now I'm getting the run around.

[sourdough]

I'm sorry for your issues. I just don't have those. Trying to remember I can't ever remember a time a Keystone rep sent me anything. I have had them send a dealer parts for me to pick up and install. Not sure of the process you're using but hopefully it improves.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Gmcjimmy4x4

I was just looking for other options after the dealer i bought from said they couldn't make an appointment for me untill October! And that was just for a bad thermostat. As far as keystone goes, it's hard to believe that they cannot supply me with something to correct a simple problem like a thermostat? I can buy the same one or even the digital model on Amazon right now. I even have an extended warranty but was told it does not take affect untill the factory warranty Is up.just feel like they got my money and now I'm getting the run around.

You really REALLY need to spend some time reading the warranty section of your owner's manual and pay particular attention to the "how to obtain service" instructions.

Not to be 'shouting', but IT ALL HINGES ON KEYSTONE AND THE DEALERSHIP. THERE IS NO PROVISION FOR OWNERS OF KEYSTONE TRAILERS TO PROCESS WARRANTY REPAIRS WITH THE KEYSTONE WARRANTY SECTION.....

What you're trying to do is NOT the process. It's no surprise that you're having to start over every time you talk to someone. Dealerships have "established protocols, established contacts, established means to track specific job numbers and specific processes to order parts, track their shipment and coordinate return of damaged/broken parts so Keystone can process reimbursement from their contractors.

You're attempting to circumvent all of that and expect things to go smoothly. It won't happen that way and this week when you talk to someone new at Keystone, you'll start your "bootleg warranty request" all over again....

You need to get in your truck and drive the 100 miles to your dealership with the broken thermostat and hand it to them, get "eye to eye" with someone and explain what you're trying to get us to take action on. We have no influence with Keystone or with your dealer. YOU DO, and until you establish that influence to your benefit, you're going to be "talking to someone new at Keystone and starting all over again next week, just like this week....

It all starts with your dealership, not with a quick phone call to Keystone trying to short circuit the process.

As a comparison, try calling Ford in Dearborn and telling their customer service about the issues with your engine's rough idle. See what the first words you'll hear from CS are: "Please take your vehicle to your nearest Ford dealer and they'll be happy to help you"... NOBODY in Dearborn is going to send you a new fuel injector or a new CPU. why expect that from Keystone ? It ain't gonna happen. and if it does, it's a "one off fluke".

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

This is copied right off if the current keystone website:

IF YOU THINK YOU NEED A REPAIR

Before calling the dealer, do a little homework. It can be frustrating to take the time, effort and expense to get your RV in for a service visit simply to learn that the condition is normal or that was a way to operate the component that you didn’t quite understand. *Here are some resources that can help you explore what’s is going on and potentially resolve the issue before taking your RV in for service:

Review your Owner’s Manual or the Vendor manual for the component in question (if applicable) Visit the “Owners” link on www.keystonerv.com for Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), “How to” Videos or “Chat” with a Keystone Owner Relations representative.Review the Vendor's website for more information regarding the component in question.Contact your selling dealer or Keystone Customer Service to run it by one or both of us.ARE YOU A DO-IT-YOURSELFER?

Now, more than ever, many recreational vehicle owners are relating to the “Do-it-Yourself” (DIY) method of repairs. Just like when you’re working on your brick and mortar home, the DIY skills you already have can save you time, money, and most importantly, keep your RV on the road.*

For example, if you simply need to replace a part (such as blinds, the radio, cabinet door, drawer guide, etc.) and you are comfortable doing the work, Keystone RV can help. We may be able to send you a part no charge to install yourself or with the help of someone you know and trust.*

While we want you to have the opportunity to complete simple repairs, we encourage you to be safe,*USE CAUTION AND GOOD COMMON SENSE. Your comfort in working on RV repairs and your safety are important. If you are at all uncomfortable or realize you don’t have the necessary experience to independently work on any repair project, please stop what you are doing seek the advice of someone familiar with your RV or contact an authorized Keystone dealership for help from their service team. This is especially important for items that relate to the liquid propane (LP) gas system, electrical system, and plumbing, or involves such things as the slide room systems, hydraulics, appliances. *

“Do-it-Yourself” (DIY) repairs are not required in any way when the unit is within the terms of the warranty. This is strictly option for owners to use their existing skills for a more convenient and timely service experience.

[sourdough]

And how far has that gotten you or will it get you? Many before you have tried virtually every option there is to try to get things rectified the way "they want" in a timeframe "they want". Keystone nor the dealerships work on your, or my, timelines. Might listen to some of the advice being given. As I was told more than once; they listen to the dealership, they listen harder to the management of the dealership. Cast your bait as you wish; I catch fisn and like it that way....

[JRTJH]

The first sentence in Chapter One of the Keystone Owner's Manual:

Keystone’s authorized dealers are the exclusive provider of Keystone Parts, Service and Warranty. Please note that, while Keystone is always willing to help, as the RV owner you will need to make an appointment with a dealer for your service related needs. We recommend you contact your selling dealer first.

Further down in Chapter One:

Please Note: If the dealer is unable to timely resolve any warrantable issues or provide assistance in arranging repairs, please contact: Customer Service Department, Keystone RV Company, P.O. Box 2000 Goshen, Indiana 46527. You can also reach Keystone at (866) 425-4369 or at www.keystonerv.com. Upon receipt of notice of a claim, where a dealer was unable or unwilling to resolve your issue, Keystone may then direct you to another dealer or service center.

Anything you might glean from the Keystone website is put there by the advertising section of the company (boastful claims to help generate sales) and has little bearing on how management at the company establishes day to day procedures. In other words, what you posted is "marketing hype" to help sell trailers. It's not the "official document that binds warranty repairs".

It honestly serves no purpose for us to argue on this forum about what "you and Keystone ought to do". The bottom line is if what you're doing ain't working for you, it's up to you to change your approach with Keystone". If you're willing to do that, I'd recommend starting with an "eyeball to eyeball" discussion with your dealership where you explain to them your expectations. Once you do that, if they are unable to timely resolve any warrantable issues, then "per the Keystone Owner's Manual, contact Customer Service to assistance in "making an appointment with a dealership that can resolve your issues.... It's not up to Keystone to start mailing you parts to swap out until you're satisfied. Don't expect them to do that on a regular basis and I'd be surprised if they even do it once.

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Like I said earlier, I already contacted the dealer I bought from. Don't get the feeling that they are going to be of much help. Unless I want to wait untill October. Probably will end up just ordering the parts myself and fixing it. I am capable of the work but thought it would be best to try and go through propper route and let warranty fix it. Your right about finding another route. If it were a more substantial problem, I would definitely make an appt and take it in. Its just hard to justify time and cost if fuel to tow it there and leave for who knows how long for a simple liw cost problem.

[Gmcjimmy4x4]

Found the relay online. Does anybody know where the factory located this relay? Any pics?its a suburban 12 gallon model.