First Time Travel Trailer & Truck Owner

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by LHaven

And this brings up another question.

The DW hates her TV for other reasons (among them, the rear suicide doors which make it impossible to load groceries in a parking lot) and is talking about upgrading to a new truck anyway. Now, we understand that the tow value on the manufacturer brochure for our current truck is total BS, and the number for any new vehicle will be equally worthless. How do we choose a proper new vehicle when the dealer is certainly not going to let us tow our rig out to the scales to perform all this rigamarole before we buy it?

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=38633
I would wait a year and buy this 2500. The reason I would personally wait a year is to see how the 10 speed transmission fairs. It did very well against the 1 ton DRW Ram.
Unless your planning on upgrading to a 16k trailer it should easily handle what you have. I would never buy a fully tricked out truck and I don't tow enough to warrant a diesel. so payload would be better than the truck tested.
Good luck with your homework.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Originally Posted by LHaven

... How do we choose a proper new vehicle when the dealer is certainly not going to let us tow our rig out to the scales to perform all this rigamarole before we buy it?

If you take your current rig over the CAT scales, once with the trailer, and once with just the truck, you'll get those weights exactly, including the tongue weight.

You can then get a go-nogo decision from the door sticker on any truck you're considering. The tongue weight is the one that relates to your payload and axle ratings most of all. It's the weight that your truck has to carry on its back.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Boy, do I hear your pain. I recently decided to run through all the actual numbers to satisfy myself that we are not overtowing. I had to gather numbers from the doorframe, the door edge, and the truck user manual (why aren't they all in one place?) as well as the trailer decal, and that was only half the numbers I needed. I purchased a tongue scale to get that weght, and I'm going to have to visit a truck scale (some 50 miles away) to gather the rest. Only then will I know whether I have good news or bad news. My wife has been insisting that we are well within specs given a single number on the truck brochure, and she's going to be furious if we turn out to be overweight.

It does appear that the manufacturer's single-value tow figure is absolutely useless, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who never get it "right."

We don't really carry anything in the truck other than its own fluids, two of us, and two dogs, so at least we aren't preloading ourselves that way.

If there's a grain elevator, trucking company or possibly the local landfill could also weigh your rig if ask nicely or paid a fee, don't have to necessarily drive 50 miles to a truck stop.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by LHaven

And this brings up another question.

The DW hates her TV for other reasons (among them, the rear suicide doors which make it impossible to load groceries in a parking lot) and is talking about upgrading to a new truck anyway. Now, we understand that the tow value on the manufacturer brochure for our current truck is total BS, and the number for any new vehicle will be equally worthless. How do we choose a proper new vehicle when the dealer is certainly not going to let us tow our rig out to the scales to perform all this rigamarole before we buy it?

There are lots of "meaningless" numbers thrown around by manufacturers and dealers; "maximum tow weight", "unloaded/dry weight" etc. For sales, not real life.

Finding a suitable TV and trailer without scaling it first is not all that hard. In my world, if looking for all new stuff, find the perfect trailer then find the appropriate TV. If your hooked with one or the other find the appropriate match.

Look at the TV driver door and get the numbers from the stickers. They are particular to THAT vehicle and vary from each one. Note the gvw, gawr front/rear and payload. To me the payload is more important because when you hit it you probably hit the gawr. Find the trailer. Note the gvw. You may have to compute the unloaded weight on the sticker and the "carrying capacity" listed there as well to get it. From that combined number (gvw) calculate 20% pin weight for a 5th wheel and 12-15% for a TT to get your pin/tongue load on your proposed truck. From the payload of your proposed TV subtract that number. What's left is what you have for anything/everything you think you will carry in the TV; weights of all people, gear, tools, puppies, BBQ and on and on. If you still have payload left....you may be OK. If it's "on the line and you have no margin", IMO you are going to be overloaded.

In the scenario above I have determined I want to take the payload of the TV, multiply by 85% and let that be my payload number to give me a cushion. Minimum I want anymore is 10%.

Use those calculations and you should not have an issue with buying too much trailer or too little truck. Those are my opinions only and I know others thoughts vary wildly. At least the trip to the scales shouldn't give you that hit in the pit of your stomach.

[LHaven]

I'm using this online calculator, which I believe does all that math, and the story is turning out to be a sob story.

One question: in my 2012 F-150 manual, the number for my particular submodel (SuperCab, 2WD, 145” wheelbase, 3.5L, 3.55 RAR) for "maximum trailer weight" is 9800, but there's no mention of a tow package in that table. On the underside of the hitch, which was part of the max tow package, it says "max gross trailer weight" is 10,500. Which should I believe?

(Not that it matters in practical terms -- right now it looks like neither one of those figures lets me pull my sub-8,000 lb. trailer.)

[FlyingAroundRV]

Originally Posted by LHaven

I'm using this online calculator, which I believe does all that math, and the story is turning out to be a sob story.

One question: in my 2012 F-150 manual, the number for my particular submodel (SuperCab, 2WD, 145” wheelbase, 3.5L, 3.55 RAR) for "maximum trailer weight" is 9800, but there's no mention of a tow package in that table. On the underside of the hitch, which was part of the max tow package, it says "max gross trailer weight" is 10,500. Which should I believe?

(Not that it matters in practical terms -- right now it looks like neither one of those figures lets me pull my sub-8,000 lb. trailer.)

The important number is not the towing capacity, but the payload capacity. That tells you how much your truck can carry (not pull). The other number is the gross axle weight capacity, especially the rear axle. That one is a bit harder to find because you have to get the truck weighed to find out what is already sitting on that axle. If you look through the truck brochures, you'll soon work out that any extras on the truck, such as 4WD, extra trim and furnishings subtract from your payload capacity! Intuitively, you might think that a 4WD would have more weight carrying ability because of the extra heavy running gear ... But the opposite is true. That is one of the reasons I went for a 2WD truck.

[mwemaxxowner]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

If there's a grain elevator, trucking company or possibly the local landfill could also weigh your rig if ask nicely or paid a fee, don't have to necessarily drive 50 miles to a truck stop.

I was stopping in to suggest this. I'm a big advocate for getting real weights, vs published weights. For example, listed curb weights are usually a lot less than what you drive around weighing, you'd be surprised how much the random junk in your vehicle adds up to. Especially if you like to stay prepared like I do with straps and chains and whatnot.

I work for a trucking company now and have easy access to scales. However, before this, I learned that both my local scrap metal yard, and my local landfill will allow me to use their scale if it isn't occupied free of charge. All it took was asking the lady at the window while being polite. Our company would also allow a local to weigh a trailer if they asked. We have several scales, but one is outside the gates for the log trucks with a digital readout, just beside the public road in a gravel lot. Honestly someone could be on it and off of it before anyone would realize even if it wasn't okay.

There are quite possibly options at your disposal that you aren't even aware of that are fairly convenient and free.

[mwemaxxowner]

Originally Posted by LHaven

I'm using this online calculator, which I believe does all that math, and the story is turning out to be a sob story.



One question: in my 2012 F-150 manual, the number for my particular submodel (SuperCab, 2WD, 145” wheelbase, 3.5L, 3.55 RAR) for "maximum trailer weight" is 9800, but there's no mention of a tow package in that table. On the underside of the hitch, which was part of the max tow package, it says "max gross trailer weight" is 10,500. Which should I believe?



(Not that it matters in practical terms -- right now it looks like neither one of those figures lets me pull my sub-8,000 lb. trailer.)

That is just the capability of the hitch. To get your gcvwr and published towing capacity, refer to the towing guide for your model truck. There is a chart where you can find your supposed towing capacity, and better than that your maximum gcvwr.

Also, if your hitch is the 10.5 rated hitch, I don't think it's the one that accompanies the max tow package. The max tow package also came with 3.73 gearing in that year.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...jzCJI3RRebCbW3

I've screen shotted some of it, but best to refer to the link. There is a lot of good reading in there, there are frontal area considerations as well as weights.

The towing capacity and rated payload are almost useless. I look at GCVWR and look at gvwr and get weights myself and go from there to figure out what I should be able to tow and what payload I should be able to take on.

[Hankster]

Enjoy the new rig. We tow our bullet 261RBSWE (7600# GVW) with our '15 ram with hemi, and .321 gears and love it. I have added 1000 series air springs inside the coils, and upgraded the tires to load range D bf Goodrich KO2 tires.
We just got back from Key West, and prior to that moved from Boise Idaho area. So we've logged about 5000 miles since March. Make sure to use your tow/haul button.
The 8 speed trans is amazing, it keeps the engine at the right RPMs to let it work.

[Tejastwister]

Nice!, enjoy your experience.

[IdahoJoe]

Originally Posted by annmarie

What's a 2020qb?? Tow capacity for our 1500 is just over 11k and our dry weight for the rig is 7k. So I'm assuming we'll be okay...?!

Annemarie you will be fine. I towed my Laredo 24' TT around the entire perimeter of the US for a total of 7800 miles during the summer with my RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi with 3.21 gears. Not a single glitch (with the truck). I did add air bags to the notoriously weak rear coil springs. Enjoy your new purchase and welcome to the RV world!

[IdahoJoe]

Annemarie, you will be fine. I towed my Laredo 24' TT around almost the entire perimeter of the US for a total of 7800 miles during the summer with my RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi with 3.21 gears. Not a single glitch (with the truck). I did add air bags to the notoriously weak rear coil springs. Enjoy your new purchase and welcome to the RV world![/QUOTE]

[IdahoJoe]

If you listen to some of the folks on this (and other) RV forums you should buy a Peterbilt to be safe. I owned a commercial towing business in the Seattle area and, believe me, towing limits are critical in that business. All of these "geniuses" that tell you to disregard specifications are doing you a disservice. I have had every type of RV there is and have been RVing for over 50 years. Go and enjoy your new rig!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by IdahoJoe

If you listen to some of the folks on this (and other) RV forums you should buy a Peterbilt to be safe. I owned a commercial towing business in the Seattle area and, believe me, towing limits are critical in that business. All of these "geniuses" that tell you to disregard specifications are doing you a disservice. I have had every type of RV there is and have been RVing for over 50 years. Go and enjoy your new rig!

I've scanned back thru the posts and didn't find any where the poster said they were a "genius". What I did read were lots of various recommendations from those with experience, ie; "informed opinions", not remarks from "geniuses" as used by you as a disparaging remark to anyone posting anything contrary to what you think apparently - your "opinion", of which everyone has one and should be free to post without being belittled.

[travelin texans]

[QUOTE=IdahoJoe;348080]If you listen to some of the folks on this (and other) RV forums you should buy a Peterbilt to be safe. I owned a commercial towing business in the Seattle area and, believe me, towing limits are critical in that business. All of these "geniuses" that tell you to disregard specifications are doing you a disservice. I have had every type of RV there is and have been RVing for over 50 years. Go and enjoy your new rig![/QUOtrail

Talk about a disservice!!
Telling anyone to totally ignore the rv/truck specs is very irresponsible. Those numbers were put on each of those vehicles for a reason not just cause they had the label & had to put it somewhere.
I'm fairly certain in your trucking company you DID NOT totally ignore the weight ratings of your truck/trailers or just used the very bare minimum trucks to get the job done, if so you would've been out of business rather quickly.
Im very glad you have been trouble free, probably overloaded, with your setup for all your trips, but I would not recommend advising others to do so just cause you've gotten away with it, so far.

[IdahoJoe]

Sourdough, I have no interest in engaging in a debate with you. I just get tired of viewing all of these weight related posts that are provided by folks with the supposed expert knowledge to do so, hence the term "geniuses". I do know a little about weight limits and towing having owned a towing business and have been an RV'er for many years. If I exceeded my weight limits in my towing business the Washington State Patrol would take joy in letting me know. I believe that the poster of this post has done her due diligence and used the correct specifications to arrive at her conclusion. I also know that manufactures build in a substantial safety margin to their specifications. IMO the well meaning posters are taking all of the joy out of the original posters purchase. Have a happy 4th!

[mwemaxxowner]

[QUOTE=travelin texans;348091]

Originally Posted by IdahoJoe

If you listen to some of the folks on this (and other) RV forums you should buy a Peterbilt to be safe. I owned a commercial towing business in the Seattle area and, believe me, towing limits are critical in that business. All of these "geniuses" that tell you to disregard specifications are doing you a disservice. I have had every type of RV there is and have been RVing for over 50 years. Go and enjoy your new rig![/QUOtrail



Talk about a disservice!!

Telling anyone to totally ignore the rv/truck specs is very irresponsible. Those numbers were put on each of those vehicles for a reason not just cause they had the label & had to put it somewhere.

I'm fairly certain in your trucking company you DID NOT totally ignore the weight ratings of your truck/trailers or just used the very bare minimum trucks to get the job done, if so you would've been out of business rather quickly.

Im very glad you have been trouble free, probably overloaded, with your setup for all your trips, but I would not recommend advising others to do so just cause you've gotten away with it, so far.

Maybe I misunderstood his post, but I don't think he was saying to ignore weight ratings at all.

I read it as though he was saying that those who tell you your truck can't actually do as much as it was rated for are "doing you a disservice". I.e. in his opinion if the numbers shake out you should be fine without upgrading to an F750. Right @IdahoJoe?

[Logan X]

I think the “numbers you should disregard” that are usually talked about on these types of threads are the marketing numbers from the sales brochures. (And the empty weights)

It shouldn’t take “a genius” to know that the real numbers you shouldn’t disregard are the Gross Combined Weight Rating, the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, the axle ratings, and the payload capacity.

Often times, when people come to this forum asking towing capacity questions, they have only heard the sales brochure numbers and they are not familiar with the actual numbers specific to their vehicle-as was the case with this thread.

If someone is asking if their set up is ok, you are doing them a disservice by saying something like “you’ll be fine, enjoy yourself.” Especially if that advice is based on anecdotal experience (and especially if you had to add airbags or something like that to make your setup work) and not rooted in an understanding of how towing capacities and cargo carrying capacities work.

YMMV

[falcondan95705]

I dont see any problem with the truck trailer you bought.. Have fun, be safe, enjoy, and congrats.. you will have a great time,!

[Chris P]

Basically it's up to her how she feels about how the truck and trailer acts together and how comfortable she is with it, All of these are just our opinions, My 1500 didn't cut it due to the wrong gears,and I wanted another truck [emoji16] She will be just fine, Happy camping.