Fresh water tank leak !!!

[Lee]

Hi,

2013 Cougar 21RBSWE TT. Original owner.

A few days ago I filled up the FWT. Yesterday I discovered a puddle under low point drain. At first I thought that maybe the cap on the end of the drain pipe was loose. Went under to tighten it only to discover that the water is running down the pipe past the grey foam in the under belly.

Dropped part of the under belly hoping to find that the drain pipe had un-screwed from the tank. No such luck. The water was dripping from the cross member that is used to support the tank, about 3/4 the way across from the drain.

After a search on this wonderful site I read that other owners had the same problem,.... the problem being a manufacturing flaw in that the hex head of the self tapping screws used to secure the cross straps work there way through the bottom of the tank.

I emptied the tank and dropped the belly pan further, crawled under for a better look. With the weight of the water removed I can clearly see the indention that each screw head has made in the tank.

In one of the posts I read, the owner stated that he called/emailed Keystone and due to this being a manufacturing flaw, Keystone mailed him a replacement tank at no charge even with the TT being out of warren-tee. That being said, I fired off an e-mail this morning to see if I can get the same result.

Either way I will be dropping the tank to repair or replace. I am also going to re-engineer the cross members to prevent this from happening again.

Chuckster57: Any words of wisdom or hints for this project will be greatly appreciated.

After a little more thought, it struck me that the Grey and black tanks are probably supported the same way as the FWT..... now I'm really getting scared at the thought of dropping those to repair.

I will report back what I hear from Keystone.

[Lee]

Update:

Spoke to Keystone customer service.

Was told I need to go to the Dealer I purchased from and have a claim submitted.

This is probably going nowhere FAST....

[JRTJH]

It all depends on what (and how thoroughly) the dealer reports. As an example, if he says, "The FWT has a hole in it" the claim will assuredly be denied. If, on the other hand he says, "The FWT has a hole in it that was caused by improperly securing the tank support beam during trailer assembly on the line and the head of the screw that was improperly installed on the line rubbed a hole into the tank which could not be inspected by the dealer or the owner until the problem was detected by leaking water...." Hopefully your dealer will go to bat for you and report it accurately (without lying or fudging) but place the blame where it really appears to come from (the assembly of the trailer) you may get a more favorable result.

Good Luck

[Lee]

Thanks John!!!!

[chuckster57]

John hit it on the head!! Pictures and wording work wonders. Factory has a real time denying when sent a picture of the tank and the screw still intact from the assembly line.

Fresh tanks seem to be mounted differently, meaning they have support straps and the gray/black don't. It may be because the black and gray are ABS and the fresh tank is a soft plastic.

I'd rather drop 100 FWT's than drop 1 black.

[Lee]

Update:

Well this afternoon I dropped the FWT!!!!

Honestly it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

Tank is held in place by 2 "C" shaped cross members. These 2 cross members then have 3 2" wide metal straps between them, front to back to support the center section of the tank. These 3 straps are held in place with the self tapping screws that are causing the problem as the tank rests on these screw heads.

The front cross member is welded to the frame rails, the rear cross member is screwed to the frame rails with 2 self tapping screws on each end. I removed these screws.

With the screws removed this allowed the rear cross member to drop down ~ 4inchs. By holding the empty tank up I could put a ratchet on the support strap screws and remove them. Then the tank angled right out.

I put the tank on saw horses and filled it up.... sure enough it is leaking at one of the screw head indentations. Will attempt to patch this after I research the best method to do so.

Now,... how do I fix the original problem of the screw heads wearing through the tank..... I cut strips out of a sheet of 1/4 plywood, 2inch wide and 56 inches long to act as shims. I then cut clearance holes in them for the screw heads. Sure hopes this is the cure.

Will try and attach pictures.

Take care,

[JRTJH]

Your repair looks great. My only suggestion would be to go to a "industrial fastener store" (there's one in almost every industrial complex) and try to buy some low profile screws or even bolts with nuts. They are the same size but the height of the bolt/screw head is thinner so they won't protrude as much into the tank space. Thinner bolts coupled with the plywood shims should resolve your problem completely. As for the tank, there is a tank repair product "Plasti-Mend" which is a kit made specifically to repair the "food grade plastic" water tanks. If you know someone who is proficient in plastic welding, that is also an alternative. Thanks for sharing your findings.

[Lee]

Update #2

Pictures of FWT up-side-down on saw horses. Found 6 divots caused by heads of cross strap screws ( one of which had completely penetrated and was leaking), and 1 caused by a screw improperly installed that secures the LP gas line to the frame. Also, a large gash from the bracket that is used to prevent side-to-side movement of the tank. The sharp edge of the bracket was slowly cutting into the tank.

I repaired all of the indentations using a hot air gun and plastic from a milk jug. Refilled the tank and let set for 4 hours without any leaks.

[Lee]

Update #3

Installed the tank,.... pictures of tank on the shims.

Interestingly, the 3 cross straps were not installed equally apart... there is a larger spacing between # 2 and 3 than between #1 and 2. If I ever have to drop the tank again I will install another strap.

Hope my milk jug repairs hold. Filled tank and will let set a few days before installing the underbelly.

Thanks,

[Lee]

Tips:

Removing coroplast. My TT's FWT tank is located in the front of the TT under the bed. To decide on where to cut the under belly so I could remove the FWT, I measured back from the front of the underbelly 4 feet (the width of a replacement sheet) and fortunately for me this is 2 inches past where a frame cross member is that the current underbelly is screwed to. I cut the existing coroplast 2 inches in front of this cross member.

I took the original cut out piece and laid it on top of the sheet of replacement material and traced it. I did this "sideways" using the sheet's 4 ft width, thus making my replacement piece 4 inches longer than the original. When I install this replacement sheet it will over lap the existing coroplast by 2 inches and I will secure both the original and replacement to the cross member with a 2 inch overlap, thus preventing any sagging. I plan on putting expanding foam around the perimeter of the entire replacement underbelly.

You can buy 4x8 sheets of coroplast at your local Big Box store.

While I had the underbelly exposed I also removed 18 inches of coiled up ducting that fed the floor register in the bedroom.

Hope all of this info helps the next Fellow that has to do this job,

[Lee]

Update:

Stopped by the dealership where I purchased the TT to file a claim on the FWT.

Kind lady working there gave me her business card and told me to write up an email and attach pictures and she would up-channel to Keystone.

Next day I received an email from her stating she had forwarded my request to Keystone and to wait 3-5 business days for reply.

Waiting....
Lee

[Lee]

Kudo's to Keystone!!!!!

Local dealership called me to inform me that Keystone will warrentee the FSW at no cost. They will even install it!!!!!!!

Should be arriving in about 3 weeks!!!!

[JRTJH]

That's great news, Lee. Do you have access to exactly what your dealer reported to Keystone? That would give us all a "lesson on what works" if you can get access to and post that information.....

Thanks for keeping us all "in the loop".....

[Lee]

Hi John,

I do!!!!! I asked the Service Rep to please include me on what ever she up channled to Corporate. She basically cut-and-pasted almost everything in the e-mail that I sent her.

I also included 7 detailed pictures with descriptions all the way from the tank still installed to the tank sitting on saw horses with a closeup of water dripping from one of the holes. Also a picture of the screws after the FWT was removed that were causing the damage

Here is the text she sent:

Job #: 1 - Warranty
Status: AA
FRESH TANK LEAKING

The FWT is supported by 2 cross members. The forward cross member is welded to the frame rails of the Trailer and the rear cross member is screwed to the frame rails. In between these cross members are 3, two inch wide metal straps that support the weight of the FWT and are screwed to the cross members with 3/8 hex head self tapping screws. The first thing I noticed is that the plastic FWD is sitting directly on these 6 self tapping screw heads.

Next I removed the FWD and discovered that all 6 self tapping screw heads from the straps have worn into the FWD and 1 had penetrated far enough into the body of the FWT that it was leaking. This is a manufacturing process caused failure.

The FWT is labeled as being 51 gallons. The tank when full then weighs 408 pounds. There are six 3/8 hex head screws directly supporting a considerable amount of this weight thus causing the screw heads to compromise the FWT.

The FWT has a hole in it that was caused by improperly securing the tank support beam during trailer assembly on the line and the heads of the 6 screws that were improperly installed on the line rubbed holes into the tank which could not be inspected by the dealer or the owner until the problem was detected by leaking water.

The last paragraph should look familiar to you as it's exactly what you had stated earlier in this thread

Take care,

[JRTJH]

Lee,

Thank you for the detailed response. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it's clear that your dealership did everything to support you and went the extra mile to make sure they took care of your needs. By doing that, they likely have made a "customer for life". I'd urge you to drop off a pizza and a couple of 2 liter bottles of soda when you go in to finalize this situation. They definitely went beyond the norm to help you.

Documentation that is clear, concise and adequately addresses the problem will usually get appropriate results from Keystone. They are not the "big bad company" out to screw their customers. They do, however, have a corporate responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profits by not being a "charity provider" for everyone who has a problem with their travel trailer.

So, trying to balance profits with responsibility, they have to appropriately "draw the line" and say no to poorly documented complaints that show up asking for help. It's situations like yours that illustrate how properly documenting the problem can (and does) lead to Keystone "stepping up to the plate" well after the warranty on the trailer has expired.

It's clear from your report that went to Keystone that they do respond to documentation that adequately describes the problem and they will pay to fix their mistakes. I'm glad you got this behind you and hopefully your experiences, as described here, will be used as an example for others if they have similar experiences with denials of their problems.

I've found that it's more the "fault" of the dealer's submission than the "irresponsibility" of Keystone that causes most of the denials for repairs that should be obviously a "factory problem"...

Thanks again for sharing your experiences in this situation.