Polar Package vs Glacier Package???

[Wally15]

I've been reading some of the horror stories of freezing valves and water lines on RV's with the "Polar Package". My 2013 Laredo has a sticker that says "Glacier Package". Anybody know what the difference is between the two? While it's not much of an issue down here in south GA, it may effect the a/c in the summer. We did see 15 degrees last month when the 1st Polar Vortex blew through. And 20 degrees on the 2nd one. Plus an inch of snow. I might have to move another 60 miles south into FL if this "global warming" trend keeps up.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by Wally15

I've been reading some of the horror stories of freezing valves and water lines on RV's with the "Polar Package". My 2013 Laredo has a sticker that says "Glacier Package". Anybody know what the difference is between the two?
.

Wally15 -
There is no difference between the two. All of Keystone's stickers whether they say 'Polar", "Arctic", "Glacier" or whatever are simply advertising gimmicks. Volumes have been written about these misleading stickers and packages. Long story short - Don't believe them and your unit, as is, is a 3 season RV. It might be more where you live but venture north and you'll soon find out that you won't be protected - unless you carry out some modifications and upgrades - in long periods of freezing temperatures.

The problem is, that many RVers, have been told by the salesman who point to the sticker or read the glossy brochure, believe that the unit must be ok. To their dismay, it isn't.

"A rose by any other name is still a rose."

Sorry to disappoint you.

[JRTJH]

Wally,

You mention that the "extras" in the glacier package may help with A/C in the summer. There probably isn't much "extra" to help with keeping the cabin cool. The glacier package is simply a "underbelly cover" and "heated tanks/valves". There is a 2" furnace duct directed into the tank space and a corrugated plastic cover under the frame. Otherwise, there's not much to the glacier package's "claim to fame".

As for summer help, the majority of heat gain in the cabin is from the sunshine on the roof/walls and the solar gain through the windows. The A/C won't benefit much from what's "protected" under the trailer and the furnace doesn't run, so there's no help/harm there either.

Pretty much, during the summer, your A/C is on it's own without any help from "Mr. Glacier".

[Steve S]

I hear that next year Keystone is coming out with the vortex package, I already put an order in for one!

[GaryWT]

As said they are all the same and I said on another post that it should help if it is 30 out and maybe a short time is it is in the 20's but so many people seem to be camping with the temps below zero. Never mind the hoses freezing, the trailer must be cool in general and they must be blowing through propane big time.

[BillnDeb]

We have the Polar Pack and managed fine in many days when it hit 20 degrees between November and January in Virginia, Myrtle Beach and Panama City Beach (we followed the southern polar vortex 😁.). The day we left Myrtle Beach, it was so cold, the water froze as it hit the concrete pad when DH unhooked the water. Common sense had to rule. We let water drip when we knew it would be below 32-during our six weeks out, that happened at least 10 times (we wonder what the campgrounds water bill is during these freeze spells), we used the propane heater and supplemented with 2 small electric heaters, one in the main area and the other in our bedroom/bath area.

My selfie the day we left Myrtle Beach with water freezing on our concrete pad, Jan 7, 2014.
Debbie

[Festus2]

Bill & Debbie -
You might have been able to "manage fine" when the temperatures dipped to below freezing for short periods of time. Having water dripping may help prevent water lines from freezing for a day or two in temperatures slightly below freezing. I am wondering what would be the result if you were to have spent most or all of the 6 weeks in areas where it was below freezing all day and all night.

If you follow Steve's posts (in another thread), you will have noticed that his unit has been in sub zero temps (Celsius) for almost a couple of weeks and he experienced freezing water lines even though he does have the Arctic/Polar/Glacier package. This, along with having a tap open and running water didn't seem to offer him much in the way of protection.

My point is that these units, as designed, built and labeled, are going to freeze up in long, sustained periods of below freezing temperatures, unless of course, a person has made some upgrades and modifications to them to enable them to withstand these kinds of temperatures.

[BillnDeb]

Yes, that is true!! We only hoped we'd have very short spells and the sun did warm things up to the 50's!
Sorry-just wanted to say it helped us as we had hoped, but we never planned to be in sustained cold and we were told it would not work in that environment when we saw the polar package as an option for us.
Debbie

[Steve S]

Hi Debbi, you're not really in anything cold yet, the sticker on the side really means nothing as if you look underneath there's exposed pipes with no protection.
The problem about freezing and being in sub zero for weeks is that once you're frozen that's it you're frozen!
I've had no running water for about a week now, all pipes are frozen. Sure I could waste time with a hair dryer thawing everything out but then it'll freeze up again overnight. I'm waiting till things thaw, going to pressure test all the lines then insulate properly.
I will mention that I am absolutely not knocking nor will I ever knock Keystone for the way they insulated the walls and the ceiling.
For 1 1/2 walls they used a great R value rigid insulation and the ceiling is thick and there's very little heat loss.
We've been at -7 to -10 most nights and my furnace doesn't kick in that much.
Am I keeping warm? Yes very warm. Can I stay warm if we were to hit -20? I can honestly say that we could as even @ -12 with a oil filled heater I still find myself turning down the furnace @ 2am.
The big issue for me speaking and for most is there's no insulation underneath and that's a detail that many owners should be aware of before they head out in to the cold.

[geo]

Wally15 & Debbie -

If you utilize the Search on the menu bar, you will find many postings with many pictures concerning the Polar/Arctic/Glacier package. For example, if you utilize the Search, you will find this:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4784
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5529

You will also find a couple of members who have installed tank heaters and insulation. I installed Fiberglass insulation, where as others, such as mguay, have used spray foam insulation.

The Search function is very handy.

Ron

[kippy]

I have a fuzion 38 foot winterized. After 36 hours of hard freeze i could nut turn my faucets on, this also hoppened on my 28 foot rv. Temps down to 15 and up to 40. The kicker is i live in N. W. Florida

[SAABDOCTOR]

STEVE If you want a chuckle... my monte is stored at my house. I got so cold the polar package sticker fell off, so I guess it reached the max low temp

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by SAABDOCTOR

STEVE If you want a chuckle... my monte is stored at my house. I got so cold the polar package sticker fell off, so I guess it reached the max low temp

That reminds me I have to get the hairdryer out at some point and take the polar sticker off

[owings64]

Greetings from the Northland,

I wanted to drop a few lines here regarding the, "Glacier Package", and cold weather camping. The first thing you should know is that my wife and I live in Minnesota and gets pretty darn cold around here.

In January and February there can be times when we never see a 20 degree high, let alone get above freezing. Mostly it's in the single digits above zero with nightly lows in the teens below zero. To say I've camped in all kinds of weather would be would accurate, but never in extreme, extended cold periods in our RV.

So all that said, how does the, "Glacier Package", stack up in Minnesota? It simply doesn't. No one in their right minds would camp in an RV in Minnesota during the harsh winter months (late November, December, January, February and March) and generally don't do so between late October and mid-April.

The rule of thumb around here, I'll speak for my fellow Northerners, and this applies to travel trailers with the, "Glacier Package", specifically is we don't camp in weather that is going to be below freezing (32 degrees F) for more than 24 hours. If it's going to dip into the high 20's and low 30's overnight, but spring back into the 50's during the daytime that's okay, I haven't had any trouble using an RV in that situation.

If you get brave though and decide to camp when there are days of consistent below freezing temps and the highs during the day don't get much above that, you do so at your own peril. For us it's just not worth it.

What to do if you're in the Southern US and you see a very/long and bad stretch of cold weather coming and you are stuck in your RV or you are boondocking? I'd be seriously tempted to winterize my lines and tanks, run my furnace almost constantly and hope for the best. This is a big inconvenience since you'll have to de-winterize after the cold snap, but it's cheaper and easier than replacing your tanks and lines.

When your tanks and lines are winterized (see many YouTube videos on this topic), you don't use the system. You don't use the water, the sinks, the toilet or shower or anything that runs liquid through your lines. We winterize every year here Minnesota because we have to. It works and we've never had an issue with freezing lines or tanks.

Hope this was helpful.

With every good wish!

Marty

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by owings64

Greetings from the Northland,

I wanted to drop a few lines here regarding the, "Glacier Package", and cold weather camping. The first thing you should know is that my wife and I live in Minnesota and gets pretty darn cold around here.

In January and February there can be times when we never see a 20 degree high, let alone get above freezing. Mostly it's in the single digits above zero with nightly lows in the teens below zero. To say I've camped in all kinds of weather would be would accurate, but never in extreme, extended cold periods in our RV.

So all that said, how does the, "Glacier Package", stack up in Minnesota? It simply doesn't. No one in their right minds would camp in an RV in Minnesota during the harsh winter months (late November, December, January, February and March) and generally don't do so between late October and mid-April.

The rule of thumb around here, I'll speak for my fellow Northerners, and this applies to travel trailers with the, "Glacier Package", specifically is we don't camp in weather that is going to be below freezing (32 degrees F) for more than 24 hours. If it's going to dip into the high 20's and low 30's overnight, but spring back into the 50's during the daytime that's okay, I haven't had any trouble using an RV in that situation.

If you get brave though and decide to camp when there are days of consistent below freezing temps and the highs during the day don't get much above that, you do so at your own peril. For us it's just not worth it.

What to do if you're in the Southern US and you see a very/long and bad stretch of cold weather coming and you are stuck in your RV or you are boondocking? I'd be seriously tempted to winterize my lines and tanks, run my furnace almost constantly and hope for the best. This is a big inconvenience since you'll have to de-winterize after the cold snap, but it's cheaper and easier than replacing your tanks and lines.

When your tanks and lines are winterized (see many YouTube videos on this topic), you don't use the system. You don't use the water, the sinks, the toilet or shower or anything that runs liquid through your lines. We winterize every year here Minnesota because we have to. It works and we've never had an issue with freezing lines or tanks.

Hope this was helpful.

With every good wish!

Marty

Marty, great first post but you were replying to a thread that has been 7 years without activity. Take a minute and go to the UserCP and then the Signature button and make a signature with year, make and model or your camper and the same for your tow vehicle. Helps add context to your posts. Anyway, glad to have to aboard.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by owings64

Greetings from the Northland,

I wanted to drop a few lines here regarding the, "Glacier Package", and cold weather camping. The first thing you should know is that my wife and I live in Minnesota and gets pretty darn cold around here.

In January and February there can be times when we never see a 20 degree high, let alone get above freezing. Mostly it's in the single digits above zero with nightly lows in the teens below zero. To say I've camped in all kinds of weather would be would accurate, but never in extreme, extended cold periods in our RV.

So all that said, how does the, "Glacier Package", stack up in Minnesota? It simply doesn't. No one in their right minds would camp in an RV in Minnesota during the harsh winter months (late November, December, January, February and March) and generally don't do so between late October and mid-April.

The rule of thumb around here, I'll speak for my fellow Northerners, and this applies to travel trailers with the, "Glacier Package", specifically is we don't camp in weather that is going to be below freezing (32 degrees F) for more than 24 hours. If it's going to dip into the high 20's and low 30's overnight, but spring back into the 50's during the daytime that's okay, I haven't had any trouble using an RV in that situation.

If you get brave though and decide to camp when there are days of consistent below freezing temps and the highs during the day don't get much above that, you do so at your own peril. For us it's just not worth it.

What to do if you're in the Southern US and you see a very/long and bad stretch of cold weather coming and you are stuck in your RV or you are boondocking? I'd be seriously tempted to winterize my lines and tanks, run my furnace almost constantly and hope for the best. This is a big inconvenience since you'll have to de-winterize after the cold snap, but it's cheaper and easier than replacing your tanks and lines.

When your tanks and lines are winterized (see many YouTube videos on this topic), you don't use the system. You don't use the water, the sinks, the toilet or shower or anything that runs liquid through your lines. We winterize every year here Minnesota because we have to. It works and we've never had an issue with freezing lines or tanks.

Hope this was helpful.

With every good wish!

Marty

FYI!
Both those terms, Glazier or Polar, are just sales gimmicks & I'd doubt there's a bit of difference in their build or their ability to withstand single digit temps without some serious winterizing precautions beforehand.
Those so called packages typically mean there's a layer of Reflectix (chrome bubble wrap) above the Coroplast (plastic cardboard) covering the underbelly with a small duct from the furnace blowing into that underbelly.
There's only so much R factor that can be placed in a 2 - 2 1/2" walls or a 4 - 6" attic. If your rv is equipped with slides there's little to no insulation in the floors or ceiling.

[dalel2000]

Leave the hot and cold water taps in all areas running slightly. Only works well if you have full hookups at a park and leave the Grey water tank open.

Leave the cabinets open as well and crank the gas heat up a bit since it does heat in the underneath area. You can feel the air coming from the cut out holes under the sinks.

We also have two small space heaters to supplement, but remember you have to ensure the gas heat runs long enough to keep the underneath area heated to whatever degree it achieves such.

All this so far works, but agree that I would not want to stay in this situation for weeks at a time.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by dalel2000

Leave the hot and cold water taps in all areas running slightly. Only works well if you have full hookups at a park and leave the Grey water tank open.

Leave the cabinets open as well and crank the gas heat up a bit since it does heat in the underneath area. You can feel the air coming from the cut out holes under the sinks.

We also have two small space heaters to supplement, but remember you have to ensure the gas heat runs long enough to keep the underneath area heated to whatever degree it achieves such.

All this so far works, but agree that I would not want to stay in this situation for weeks at a time.

no! No! NO!!!!!

DO NOT LEAVE THE WATER RUNNING !!!!!

Even if you have the gray tank valve open, you still have a "unprotected sewer hose" laying outside. That "small trickle of water" if it's cold enough to freeze the inside plumbing, is going to freeze the outside sewer hose. Once the flow stops, the gray tank is effectively "closed to any discharge" and will begin to fill up. A "trickle of water at the faucet" can be as much as 4 or 5 gallons per hour. So, overnight, with water in 2 or 3 faucets flowing into the gray tanks, you risk flooding the trailer interior once that sewer hose freezes. And, no, the sewer hose doesn't have to completely fill with ice, just a "loop to keep sewer gasses out of the trailer" is all that needs to freeze, then the hose will become "the gray tank dump valve".....

[dalel2000]

Interesting. Moving water doesn’t freeze easily, especially water that is somewhat warm. Other forums imply “this is the way”.

I have been monitoring in below 20 degree weather for the last couple days and so far ok. Stay tuned, soon to have even colder weather here in Kansas.

[sourdough]

Have to heartily agree with John. If in below freezing temps leaving the faucets open is a recipe for disaster. I have seen an individual deal with the aftermath of trying that plan. Didn't flood the trailer but he had a mess to deal with because the cold was for an extended period.

If you use the outside faucet use a heated hose. I enclose my water filter and have heated hoses going into and out of it while enclosed in a foam ice chest filled with insulation. If it's going to get really cold single digits/teens continually I will eventually disconnect the water hose. Run the furnace (not heat pump or space heaters) to keep the belly warm.

After doing all that, throwing another log on the fire and re-checking everything outside, I come inside. As I come up the stairs I run my fingers affectionately across my "Guaranteed 4 Seasons Living, Permafrost Proof, Artic Guard Freeze Proof Rating to minus a bazillion degrees" sticker, smirk with the irony, go inside and hope something doesn't freeze since it will be 25 degrees..... Last paragraph said in jest.