Diesel Engine Considerations?

[gwvwadc]

I am thinking about going to a good used diesel 3/4 ton truck. This will be a primary vehicle used to go back and forth to work, run errands and of course to pull our TT.

I have done some research, so I understand the differences in HP and torque between gas and diesel engines.

I have a few questions about diesel that I know some of you can help with. I would like honest answers (not opinions about who makes the best).

What would be a good mileage on the engine? When I look around, I see anywhere from 60k to over 100K - of course I know less mileage means more added to the price of the truck. With proper maintenance, what kind of life could I expect?

What added costs of maintenance can I expect? I know oil changes will be more expensive, but would like to know what other costs to expect. I also understand fuel will cost more.

Any information will be appreciated.

[Outbackmel]

Diesel engines require more expensive maintenance, period. BUT, having had many gas and my first diesel, for me, worth the cost. Features you mentioned, along with exhaust brake, make towing a dream. When I need it, stepping into that turbo is heaven. not to mention that even without an rv, you can command respect from idiot drivers. We live in Atlanta, nuff said!
At age 70, with 45,000 miles on the 2008 model, no doubt it will far outlast my towing years left in me. Already looking at 31ft class c, double slide. Properly maintained, at least 250,000 miles would be a minimum start for longevity.
AND lastly, the resale value is going to be better simply because of the dynamic of supply vs demand. Hard to find nice diesel trucks people want to part with.
That be my personal opinion.

NO.YOU CANNOT BUY MINE, AT LEAST, NOT YET!

[jbsmith]

In my opinion, worry less about the engine and more about the chassis, suspension components, and transmission as the miles rack up. Each model/year has their quirks, but most of the big three motors are solid beyond the life of most other major systems.

Older model Rams reportedly had weaker transmissions, I've not had anything major with mine in 80k...knock on wood. My Cummins 5.9L motor has been flawless and actually runs better when towing. However, my model year had weak front end components, ate two sets of upper/lower ball joints, a drag link, and needed a new steering box at 60k. Now I'm fighting some body rest on the bed. Newer models solved a lot of these issues, but introduced a few of their own.

I change oil myself at 200 hrs of operation, using 3 GALLONS!!! of Rotella 15W40. I spend approx $50-$75 on each service, but it would be a LOT more at the shop. Few convenient lube places even stock the oil or know how to cleanly (without dumping a couple of quarts down the side if the block) to remove/replace filters etc.

The differential and transmission service intervals shouldn't change too much from the gasser, but if you're getting the diesel to tow heavier or farther, you should probably take that into consideration. My model year Ram didn't originally include drain plugs on the front/rear diff or transmission pan.

You'll also need to factor in the additional cost of fuel filters and DEF depending on the year/model. I've recently noticed that DEF us much more readily available. Depending on where you live, you might need to plug in the block heater in the winter. That's a small hidden cost. I'll also occasionally run a fuel additive like Power Service. Fuel obviously costs more, and you'll probably want to be a little picky where you buy, e.g. someplace that turns over a lot to reduce the chance of water, algae, etc. Expect to get 10-12 mpg towing and 17-20 mpg highway, maybe a bit more if you get a two wheel drive. I use my truck as a daily driver and average 12-13 mpg...but do a LOT of short trip and city driving. The DEF trucks seem to average about 10-20% better mpg. You can research what others are getting on http://fuelly.com

In my opinion, I'd buy a nice late model truck starting 2010 with no more than 50k. That will put you into a range of relative fuel efficient trucks that have already worked most of the EPA mandated bugs out of their emissions. You might even still have a little power train warranty left. You'll also likely get a better interest rate on finance to cover the higher purchase cost. Otherwise, go the other direction and look for a 2007 or older truck in good overall mechanical condition.

[JRTJH]

Very good advice so far. Essentially almost all diesel engines are going to be "bulletproof" and you will probably have little or no issues with the actual engine. (there are some exceptions). Most of the problems will be with ancillary engine components like the turbo, oil cooler, exhaust system, electrical system, and lastly, the body/chassis. Remember, on almost all trucks, there is little to no difference in the actual truck and drive train except for the diesel or gas "block of bolts" up front.

So all of the "rules of shopping" for a gas truck still apply to shopping for a diesel. Good luck with your search, and it's not always the "low mileage" truck that is the best buy when it comes to a diesel.

[Jim W]

Here is a free PDF booklet that can be down loaded from Turbo Diesel Registry .COM . It is called Turbo Diesel Buying Guide. All though the booklet is gear to all years of the Cummins/Ram trucks the same principles can be applied to the other two truck manufactures.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/m...ersguide.phtml

Now I would suggest that instead of buying use I would look into buying a new 2013/2014 Ram truck with the Cummins diesel. These trucks have the best in class towing along with some great features such the option of order a trailer prep package that includes a 7-pin connector in the bed with a gooseneck adapter plate and 4-reifnforec 5th wheel hitch mounting points for the rails. These trucks also have the best in class exhaust brake which has 240 lb-ft of breaking ability, there is also the auto exhaust brake which when enabled to allow the truck to maintain the set speed when descending a grade. If you want to read about some of the features on the 2014 truck here is a link to the 2014 trucks and their major features.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/

Jim W.

[JRTJH]

Jim,

While I certainly have no "beef" with Dodge trucks, all the manufacturers advertise "best in class" features. What is "best in class"? Advertisers (not manufacturer engineering) usually comes up with these "gimmicks." Ford advertises "best in class", GMC advertises "best in class", Chevrolet advertises "best in class" as does RAM.

The class can easily be manipulated to be whatever "excludes" the other two manufacturers from the feature. I well remember when Ford was advertising "best in class" HP/Torque with the new 6.7L diesel. GM came out with the new version of the Duramax advertising "best in class" HP/Torque. Both can't be right, but if you follow the little * behind the "best in class" you'll see that one indicated "full size pickups with GVW above 11,500 lbs" and the other indicated, "full size pickups with maximum towing package (late availibility in some areas)".

Best in class is NOT apples and apples, it's carving out a little nich in the market with cleaver advertising. All the manufacturers do this, not just Dodge or Ford or GM. Remember Toyota's "best in class above 300,000 pounds" with the Space Shuttle.

[Cougarfamily]

Originally Posted by Jim W

Here is a free PDF booklet that can be down loaded from Turbo Diesel Registry .COM . It is called Turbo Diesel Buying Guide. All though the booklet is gear to all years of the Cummins/Ram trucks the same principles can be applied to the other two truck manufactures.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/m...ersguide.phtml

Now I would suggest that instead of buying use I would look into buying a new 2013/2014 Ram truck with the Cummins diesel. These trucks have the best in class towing along with some great features such the option of order a trailer prep package that includes a 7-pin connector in the bed with a gooseneck adapter plate and 4-reifnforec 5th wheel hitch mounting points for the rails. These trucks also have the best in class exhaust brake which has 240 lb-ft of breaking ability, there is also the auto exhaust brake which when enabled to allow the truck to maintain the set speed when descending a grade. If you want to read about some of the features on the 2014 truck here is a link to the 2014 trucks and their major features.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/

Jim W.

Funny, I don't recall him asking for an OPINION on a Brand of truck. Appears you are attempting to hijack thread. And there are more important things in life than just "tow ratings".

[Javi]

Originally Posted by gwvwadc

I am thinking about going to a good used diesel 3/4 ton truck. This will be a primary vehicle used to go back and forth to work, run errands and of course to pull our TT.

I have done some research, so I understand the differences in HP and torque between gas and diesel engines.

I have a few questions about diesel that I know some of you can help with. I would like honest answers (not opinions about who makes the best).

What would be a good mileage on the engine? When I look around, I see anywhere from 60k to over 100K - of course I know less mileage means more added to the price of the truck. With proper maintenance, what kind of life could I expect?

In most cases it isn't unrealistic to see 250K from a modern diesel, although some may require a good amount of upkeep expense. Some have trouble with head bolts and others with turbos and radiators ect. Others have had trouble with transmissions. Do your research and you should be good.

What added costs of maintenance can I expect? I know oil changes will be more expensive, but would like to know what other costs to expect. I also understand fuel will cost more.

Oil changes are more expensive because of the amount of oil needed 13 - 17 quarts in some cases versus 5 or 6 for a gasser. Yes diesel is a few cents more than gas but you also have to consider the fact that most of the diesels made within the past 3 or so years also get a good bit more mpg than their gasser counterparts both empty and pulling.

Any information will be appreciated.

Diesels are the way to go if you use your truck for hauling or towing any kind of weight. I will say I drive mine daily to work and to the grocery store or out to dinner as well as tow and occasionally haul pallets of parts to customers.

Lastly I'm not a big fan of buying used vehicles unless I know the owner, just too many variables that can add up to disappointment and expense.

[tileman]

I say diesel that's all i have owned for the last 15 years

[Hansel]

My only advise is try getting a pre 2010 that's when most started going to the DEF(diesel exhaust fluid) which too me is a big pain in the rear.

But your going too find that this will turn into my truck is better than your's

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Hansel

My only advise is try getting a pre 2010 that's when most started going to the DEF(diesel exhaust fluid) which too me is a big pain in the rear.

But your going too find that this will turn into my truck is better than your's

DEF isn't really a pain... you only need to add it every 5K to 7K and it is available at the pump in most truck stops or even wally world in 2 1/2 gal containers..

[Ken / Claudia]

I will add, do yourself the biggest favor by testing at least one Chev, Dodge, Ford in your price range before you buy. They are all good, there maybe some things that you like better about one over another. Let us know what you get.

[BeerCan]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

I will add, do yourself the biggest favor by testing at least one Chev, Dodge, Ford in your price range before you buy. They are all good, there maybe some things that you like better about one over another. Let us know what you get.

IMO this is the best advice in this thread.

[Trent McCain]

I'd agree, drive them all. I prefer Ford partly because we have a great small dealer that provides excellent service. I personally wouldn't buy a diesel for a daily driver, esp one that's 2008 and newer with a DPF, short trips are hard on them as they don't get hot enough to burn the soot out on a short trip. Keep in mind we live in a small town and you can be anywhere in 5 min. I have had times when I've had to run an short errand, and had to drive on the hiway to clean the DPF. I bought ours to do a job and it sits in the building otherwise. I see no point in having an expensive diesel truck as a daily driver unless you're full timing and don't have another option. I keep my cherry 1995 F150 for short trips. As for mileage, i'm not going to exagerate mine, I'm dissapointed in it...15.5 empty and around 8.5 loaded with 5th wheel in sig. It doesn't seem to make any difference if we pull the boat in tandem either. The Dodge boys claim significantly higher. As for the claims about 250K + mileage, sure it's true, but how many folks keep a truck that long....not many, and what shape wil the rest of it be in? I only average 5K a year with mine, but it'll pull anything I need and allow for future expansion. I have seriously thought about returning to gas if we trade, as I don't pull much. I like the power and performance of our F350, but we don't save anything driving it over a gasser. Your maint costs are higher, and when it flies to pieces, it'll cost more to put it back together. Also one must also consider that a modern fuel injected gas engine will run 150K + or more if maintained well. I purchased this 2009 6.4 F350 used with 39K two years ago as I knew the owner, he ordered it new. My folks have had 3 new Ford diesels '02 7.3 F250, '06 6.0 F350, and now '11 6.7 F350. Their 2011 will run circles around mine and get approx 1.5-2 mpg better in all situations. As for using DEF in the 2011+ trucks, don't worry about it, you fill the tank when it's serviced, and that will last untill the next scheduled service.

Trent

[aehjr]

Definitely drive them all. I drove all three before buying my 2013 F350 and there was something to like about all of them. I moved up from a Toyota Tundra because we are upgrading our trailer to a Fuzion toyhauler.

As far as towing and mileage...
I just got back from a 1300 mile camping trip in southern CO with the Ford. 710 miles of those miles were towing a Viewfinder V24FK (6500 lb gross) over high mountain passes (Monarch Pass, Dallas Divide, Lizard Head Pass, Cerro Summit). We averaged 13.9 mpg for the trip. When not towing, we were driving up mountain passes and 4WD roads to get to trailheads. Towing mileage was consistently 2-3 mpg better than the Tundra towing the same trailer last year. The truck also made it up the passes much more comfortably; 1500-2000 rpms feels better than 3500-4000 rpms. ;-)

My around town mileage has been in the 16-17 mpg range but with only 1800 miles on the truck to date (including the camping trip), I haven’t logged many “around town” miles and I expect that to improve as the engine gets more miles on it. A fellow I met in a campground on the trip claimed 15 mpg towing his 5th wheel and 19 without a trailer. A fellow I met at the Ford dealer with the same truck claimed 16 mpg towing and 18 mpg around town.

Good luck on your decision.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by aehjr

A fellow I met in a campground on the trip claimed 15 mpg towing his 5th wheel and 19 without a trailer. A fellow I met at the Ford dealer with the same truck claimed 16 mpg towing and 18 mpg around town.

Good luck on your decision.

I'm impressed with that truck. Gotta get me one those.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Festus2

I'm impressed with that truck. Gotta get me one those.

As you know the mileage claims for the new 6.7 Ford depend on many things, mine does get 20-23 on the hwy empty but I don't speed and we don't have much in the way of mountains. Towing the Passport I get 14-16 pretty much no matter what, but again I don't speed. Around town it stays around 16 but we don't have traffic and my truck rarely idles for more than a minute or three at a light. I also have 3:31 gears as opposed to a dually with 3:73's.

I expect the new Duramax is getting close to that if driven conservatively. I know my '96, '97 & '98 Dodges with 3:54's got 18-20 empty on the hwy and 14-15 towing 10K equipment trailers but they were only 8' high. The Dodges were often driven tank to tank between stops without ever being shut down.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by Javi

As you know the mileage claims for the new 6.7 Ford depend on many things, mine does get 20-23 on the hwy empty but I don't speed and we don't have much in the way of mountains. .

Javi -- I don't speed either but almost anywhere we go in BC there are mountains - can't get away from them. You're either going up or coming down. Only if we head south along the coast of WA and OR do we escape them. Towing on the flats is a rare experience for me so you can see why I am suspect of anyone who says they get 15 or 16 mpg. They certainly wouldn't be making those claims if they towed in these parts. But I do get it.

[Trent McCain]

My father sees 15.5-17.5 mpg empty and 8-10 loaded. with his F350 4x4 CC SRW. But he's got 3:73's. They pull a 2012 Montana 346LBQ. My 2009 F350 was ordered with 3:55's and I have no doubt 3:73's would have helped our towing mileage. For no more miles than we run, for me its not worth the extra taxes, insurance, and purchase price to upgrade to a 2011+ for the better mileage. I will say the new Ford diesel is awesome, very quiet, smooth and responsive. Dad likes theirs.

Trent

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[aehjr]

Originally Posted by Festus2

Javi -- I don't speed either but almost anywhere we go in BC there are mountains - can't get away from them. You're either going up or coming down.

I hear you on the going up or down. I live west of Colorado Springs and my daily commute includes an 1800' descent and climb every day. I get great mileage going to work; not so good going home each day.