Wheel well tire clearance

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Eric363

My original tires were Westlake ST225/75-15, replaced with Goodyear endurance ST225/75-15. I called a spring shop and over the phone thought maybe I needed a stronger spring. The current springs are 4 leaf 25.5" eye to eye (possibly 25 1/4" as new) measured off the ground with about 3" of arch. On the ground without much stuff in the unit, I measured maybe 2" of arch. Any way of telling spring capacity? I can't find any numbers on the spring. I plan on going to a scale Thursday.

You stated previously, "I had a blowout and it did some damage that I repaired." You also indicated that the "only tire that is close to the wheelwell is the right front"... Was that "blowout that caused damage" located on the right rear?????

The reason I'm asking is this: If the right rear tire failed and did some damage, it seems that you were "towing when the RR tire blew out".. That means the right front tire (the one you're having problems with) carried the "entire right side weight" for some time (from blowout until you stopped and replaced the RR tire). You may (likely did) damage the right front tire during that few moments. If you overloaded the RF tire, you could have caused the tread separation which is "making the tire taller than it should be" and THAT (failed tire) not your suspension is the reason for the reduced clearance.....

Go go post #10 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=43366 You'll find a photo of two "identical sized tires, one with tread separation"... looking at that photo, you can see why a damaged tire on your right front axle position could be the reason for your problems.....

[flybouy]

^^ Agree with John's statement. Easiest way to find out is to change out that tire for the spare.

[skids]

Originally Posted by flybouy

^^ Agree with John's statement. Easiest way to find out is to change out that tire for the spare.

Or maybe hit it with a hammer. “Thud” vs. “drummy sound.”

[wiredgeorge]

Eight days since the OP has logged on.

[riorescue]

Yes, I don't login everyday--my job doesn't facilitate constant monitoring here. (sorry about that). My next step will be to take the trailer to the scales but this isn't something I can do tomorrow. I will definitely update everyone when I have a status update. I appreciate all the responses and I also took note of the other community member(s) who reported a similar issue as mine.

[Eric363]

Yes, I do know that every thing is added to the dry weight. Here is the stickers 1200lbs certainly isn't a lot.

[Eric363]

You are correct, sir. The right rear is the one that blew out. I changed all 4 tires this spring, but did one short trip in the fall and a hour trip to the service center prior to changing the tire. Here is what dexter sent for axle specs.

[LewisB]

Originally Posted by Eric363

Yes, I do know that every thing is added to the dry weight. Here is the stickers 1200lbs certainly isn't a lot.

Right. That 1200 lbs is related to tire loading. In the second sticker, you can see that the cargo capacity related to the trailer is 459KG or 1010# with full water tanks and empty waste tanks. So, if you have a WD hitch, a tool box, some water & waste hoses, some camp chairs, a battery operated drill...and the list goes on, it is pretty easy to get to 1000#'s!

One additional note: an RV tends to be sort of a "closed system" from a mass weight standpoint. Fresh water and groceries are all consumed along the way but you assume that after "processing" they are simply transferred to the waste system. This is just a weight transfer issue in a closed system.

However, if you stop and add fuel for your toy hauler, eat at a restaurant, add fresh water for your water tank, DW goes grocery shopping, you have now gone out of the closed system and introduced "new" weight to the system. A worst case scenario would be boon docking for a week, adding fresh water with a jug, filling up your waste tanks, then driving home without dumping. Now, it would be quite possible to be significantly over weight.

All of this borders on BS - I don't worry (much) about stuff like this on a trip - on the other hand, understanding how your rig weight can change and how close you want to be to design limits is a part of good planning and operations. JMHO

[flybouy]

"One additional note: an RV tends to be sort of a "closed system" from a mass weight standpoint. Fresh water and groceries are all consumed along the way but you assume that after "processing" they are simply transferred to the waste system. This is just a weight transfer issue in a closed system."

The human body as in any animal consumes food and water and converts that to energy, perspiration, and waste. It's far from a "closed system".

[Eric363]

Thanks for all the advice. Always very knowable people here. My plan is to patch up the draco, and have it weighed with the basics eg. 15 gals of h2o, a couple chairs. I have a short 1.5 hours trip next week. I'll check for rubbing afterwards and go from there. Thanks again.

[LewisB]

Originally Posted by flybouy

"One additional note: an RV tends to be sort of a "closed system" from a mass weight standpoint. Fresh water and groceries are all consumed along the way but you assume that after "processing" they are simply transferred to the waste system. This is just a weight transfer issue in a closed system."

The human body as in any animal consumes food and water and converts that to energy, perspiration, and waste. It's far from a "closed system".

Right. That’s why I did not use the human body as the example. The concept of an RV as a “closed system from a weight standpoint” was simply offered in the context of how payload can change Or be moved over the course of a long trip. With upwards of 1000 pounds of fresh water in some of our larger Rigs, this weight may be moved around on the rig but will not be lost until we hit a dump station. If we use the fresh water and add more water and groceries, the weight will increase. So knowing and planning for this might be important for some.

Sorry if that got lost in the shuffle.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Eric363

Thanks for all the advice. Always very knowable people here. My plan is to patch up the draco, and have it weighed with the basics eg. 15 gals of h2o, a couple chairs. I have a short 1.5 hours trip next week. I'll check for rubbing afterwards and go from there. Thanks again.

I would probably get that checked before you travel any great distance- even an hour and a half. I observed a couple of rub marks above both passenger side tires and continuing On the trip with the idea of monitoring the situation. A few hours later I endured my first blowout. After the tire change, the spare blew out 50 miles later. I discovered that same 1.5” of clearance you mention. The cause of the rubbing: both axles bent and replaced as well as the leaf springs on both sides. I am now at my summer location for two months so won’t be weighing until I leave for home but can tell you that after replacement I now have over 3” of clearance, and still have it after about 1500 miles of travel since the work was done.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by Eric363

Yes, I do know that every thing is added to the dry weight. Here is the stickers 1200lbs certainly isn't a lot.

Those load figures were in effect when the vehicle was certified just before leaving the factory.

The cargo final figure before first sale can be changed by the dealer. They are required to amend the cargo capacity labeling when options more than 100# are added prior to first sale.

Since 2007 the weight of the propane system including full tanks is part of GVW when certified.

[Eric363]

I have 2.5" of clearance, which I feel is a little low. But as John pointed out in post#21, I had a blowout of my RR last year and may have caused damage to the RF tire which is the only place where rubbing is happening or happened. With a little bit of luck that would have been the problem.

[Eric363]

FYI, I still have arch in my axles, so I don't think that's the problem.

[Eric363]

So I got weighed, I was moderately loaded 15-20 gals water, chairs and table in front passthrough, grill and canopy in the back and 20lbs of wieght in the fridge. 1.5hr round trip to the scales and unfortunately I still had some minor rubbing above the RF tire. Nothing looks broken or out of the ordinary, except the lower tire clearance. I'm wondering if 6 leaf spring with a tiny higher capacity would make the difference. The 6 leaf is 3/4" taller with a bigger arch. Thanks for any advice!

Eric

[JRTJH]

Eric,

Does your trailer have the Lippert "Correct Track Alignment system" ???

If it does, you'll see "yellow stopsign looking parts" on the front spring hangers.

The reason I ask this: Your trailer, I believe, came with that component system as OEM. The system "lifts" the trailer on its suspension about 2". If, along the way, it got removed, your suspension will sit "about 2" lower than normal"...

A "quick check" under the trailer at the front spring hangers will tell you. If they are there, then you're "on track" to start considering lifting the suspension with bigger spring packs, etc... On the other hand, if there are no "yellow stop signs" on the front spring hanger, installing that system will give you an "immediate 2" suspension lift.....

[Eric363]

John, Thanks for the response. i do not have the correct track system. I did read about it; seems like they are mixed reviews. I was talking to a friend, who is a heavy truck master mechanic, he feels lift blocks may be the way to go. As the weight is well below GVWR. Anybody have any personal experience with the correct track?

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Eric363

John, Thanks for the response. i do not have the correct track system. I did read about it; seems like they are mixed reviews. I was talking to a friend, who is a heavy truck master mechanic, he feels lift blocks may be the way to go. As the weight is well below GVWR. Anybody have any personal experience with the correct track?

My Cougar 333 MKS had Correct Track and CRE 3000 as OEM.. never had a problem with it in the 6 years I owned it..

The Avalanche has the Lippert Road Armor system with the 1/2" thick shackles, bronze bushings, and grease fittings.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Eric363

John, Thanks for the response. i do not have the correct track system. I did read about it; seems like they are mixed reviews. I was talking to a friend, who is a heavy truck master mechanic, he feels lift blocks may be the way to go. As the weight is well below GVWR. Anybody have any personal experience with the correct track?

I'm thinking out loud here, so bear with me.....

The Correct Track system (as far as I know) was standard equipment on your trailer when it was built by Keystone... If it was, then the suspension system was intended to compensate for that additional 2". If the Correct Track was "omitted by the factory" (for some unknown reason) but the spring shackles or spring hangers were not altered, then the trailer will "sit on the springs" 2" lower than intended as OEM....

If I were you, I'd do some research into whether your trailer was "intended to have the Correct Track and it wasn't installed on the assembly line" or if there is another reason why it's missing AND whether the suspension was modified/changed to compensate for that 2" loss in trailer height (which would directly translate to 2" loss in wheelwell height)....

What I'm getting at is that Keystone may have screwed up on the line when they built your trailer and it wasn't caught by the factory, the dealer, you at purchase.... until you started having wheelwell clearance issues, which "might be directly caused by the missing parts that should have been on your trailer"......