5th wheel Hitch recommendations?

[jaeger63]

Hello,
I'm New to this site and this is my first post. I'm looking to buy a Fuzion or Raptor toy hauler within the next couple of months. I'm planning to stay under 36 feet with two axles since its just me, the wife, and our labs. I'll be pulling with a 2500 HD Duramax GMC short bed. I've been reading about slider hitches being the recommended choice for short beds to allow for tighter turning clearance. What hitch would you recommend for my anticipated set up? I will say that I would like to have a hitch light enough that I can get it out of my bed when I get into camp in case I need my truck bed. I've read that the pullrite super glide is a great hitch but extremely heavy. What are some other high quality hitches but lighter in weight that would work for me. Another question I have is weight capacity of the hitch. The Fuzion 322, 310, or Raptor 300MP are under or right at 12000K and are the ones I'm seriously looking at. I would assume a 14K or 16 K hitch would be very appropriate? Thanks for any info you can give a beginner.

[C130]

I have a 2011 Fuzion 322 and pull it with an F250. It's my first RV and I've owned it for one year. I bought the Pullrite Superglide and I love the hitch but it is very heavy. I'm not sure how it compares to other hitches weight wise but its not something you want to take out very often and definitely a two person minimum job. I bought the "industry standard" Superglide and I wish I had bought the standard Pullrite Superglide model. The industry standard hitch sets up higher than their normal hitch and I would prefer my trailer to be about an inch or two lower.

I just looked at a 2013 Voltage at our campsite and the front cap of the 2013 Voltage is cut out more than my 2011 Fuzion. Owner of the Voltage had a manual slider hitch but said he didn't need it and would not have bought it if he had to do it again. I need it on my 2011 Fuzion, partly because I have a fold up bed cover that takes up around 5-6" when folded up against the back window so that's something to consider. I'd rather have the slider hitch on a short bed personally in case I ever need it. The Pullrite is automatic and definitely slides back when I park at our usual camping spots and I need the extra clearance it probides. The Pullrite is definitely heavy duty in my opinion which I like.

[PARAPTOR]

Originally Posted by jaeger63

Hello,
I'm New to this site and this is my first post. I'm looking to buy a Fuzion or Raptor toy hauler within the next couple of months. I'm planning to stay under 36 feet with two axles since its just me, the wife, and our labs. I'll be pulling with a 2500 HD Duramax GMC short bed. I've been reading about slider hitches being the recommended choice for short beds to allow for tighter turning clearance. What hitch would you recommend for my anticipated set up? I will say that I would like to have a hitch light enough that I can get it out of my bed when I get into camp in case I need my truck bed. I've read that the pullrite super glide is a great hitch but extremely heavy. What are some other high quality hitches but lighter in weight that would work for me. Another question I have is weight capacity of the hitch. The Fuzion 322, 310, or Raptor 300MP are under or right at 12000K and are the ones I'm seriously looking at. I would assume a 14K or 16 K hitch would be very appropriate? Thanks for any info you can give a beginner.

to the Forum From Western PA

Before you purchase that Toy Hauler especially a Raptor I would highly suggest you spend some time reading the information on this website regarding TVs. A lot of good information regarding weight specifications and varying opinions as to what is within the mfg. design limits versus what is acceptable to various members. You owe it to yourself to look at all the numbers and in the end it is your decision if you feel safe taking your combination out on road.

Been there myself had a 2005 Silverado 2500 HD EC LB 8.1 L gasser 4.10's towing package Allison Tran. I was one of those who listened or just wanted to hear "It will pull it" Which it did and stopped no problem. After learning more on my own and looking into weight limits of the truck and the king pin weight of the Raptor I did not feel comfortable with what I found. I had towed three times (local <200 miles) and had a 2K and 5K trip planned so I had to make a decision.

This is a very good place to find out how to do these calculations as well as how to weigh at least for now your 2500HD. As I recall there was a previous post related to a 2500 HD and a Raptor. Have no knowledge of the Fuzion but heard their king pin weights were lower.

Again I did not intend to reroute your concerns but I wish I would have understood more and not listened to others who I thought should have known better.

Do the calculations yourself, I do not think you have enough truck for the Raptor 300MP. See my Sig. Again this is my my opinion.

Enjoy and Be Safe

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by jaeger63

Hello,
The Fuzion 322, 310, or Raptor 300MP are under or right at 12000K and are the ones I'm seriously looking at. I would assume a 14K or 16 K hitch would be very appropriate? Thanks for any info you can give a beginner.

If it were my decision, I'd be looking at 18K or 20K and wouldn't consider a 14K at all. We haul and maneuver our 5th wheel with a 2500 short bed and haven't felt the need for a sliding hitch - yet. It is, however, able to be manually moved back but it isn't an "auto-sliding" hitch.

[PARAPTOR]

In response to your question, I have a Reese 20K Hitch. I have a long Bed

[bsmith0404]

On my third 5er, each different brands and designs and have never had a slider or a need for one. My older RV (2003) came the closest to the cab, but I could still get to about 60 degrees, my new Alpine doesn't even come close and a slider would be a waste of time, money, and weight.

Weight is also a concern for you with a 2500. I use a 2500 Duramax as well. A lot of people have their opinions on this, I'll give you mine. The rear axle on the SRW 2500 and 3500 is the same, the 3500 adds a leaf to the rear springs to give extra load capacity, you can do that as well with your 2500 or add air bags. The 10 ply tires are rated well above what you'll be placing on them. We don't dry camp, the DW requires full hookups, so I never carry water weight. I didn't notice what year your GMC is, my 2011 has the exhaust break, it is great for helping bring everything to a stop or controlling the speeds through hills without riding the brakes. If I remember correctly the brakes are the same on the 3500 as well, so that wouldn't make a difference.

[bsmith0404]

Almost forgot, go with an 18 or 20K. Not that much more in the scheme of things so why push it? I have the Reese Pro series. Initially had the 15K, but recently swapped the heads to a 20K, they use the same legs.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

The rear axle on the SRW 2500 and 3500 is the same, the 3500 adds a leaf to the rear springs to give extra load capacity, you can do that as well with your 2500 or add air bags. .

Not to be argumentative, but the addition of extra springs, spring helpers, or air bags will not increase the towing pay load of the tow vehicle. These things will however affect the ride of the truck and have the capability of making the TV and the RV sit more level. They do not provide you with any more capacity to tow something larger and heavier.


.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Festus2

Not to be argumentative, but the addition of extra springs, spring helpers, or air bags will not increase the towing pay load of the tow vehicle. These things will however affect the ride of the truck and have the capability of making the TV and the RV more level. They do not provide you with any more capacity to tow something larger and heavier.


.

According to GM it does. That is the only difference between the 2500 SRW and 3500 SRW models. So it comes down to how much weight can the springs support. Does it change the sticker on the door? No, but it does give the 2500 the same set up as a 3500, which is rated higher than the 2500.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

According to GM it does. That is the only difference between the 2500 SRW and 3500 SRW models. So it comes down to how much weight can the springs support. Does it change the sticker on the door? No, but it does give the 2500 the same set up as a 3500, which is rated higher than the 2500.

Those may well be the "only differences" between the two models, however, the sticker on the doorjamb is what "defines the GVW of the specific vehicle. Adding components to "upgrade the capability" won't change that sticker and that's what any accident investigator will go by when determining the cause of an accident (should it go there).

There are mechanisms to alter (or recertify) the GVW, but usually they don't come cheap nor do they happen as easy as the act of adding the springs.

One of the re-certifications that I can think of where it may be beneficial is when converting a 3/4 ton to duals. There are a number of kits available to "increase the stability" and to "improve the handling" of a vehicle, but none of them advertise increasing the GVW. That's done through the recertification process and unless it's done properly, the truck will always be what is stamped on the doorjamb. Even changing out the entire rear suspension/axle assembly isn't advertised by aftermarket companies as "increasing the GVW.

[bsmith0404]

All understandable. With all of that said, the GVWR on a 2500HD Duramax is 10,000. Empty weight is about 7200, so you have about 2800 cargo capacity (that includes passengers). As for GCWR (truck and trailer) it's 24,500, same as the 3500 SRW. Again you can gain about 300 lbs cargo capacity on the 3500 SWR. If you step up to a 3500 DRW you gain 4700 lbs GCWR. These are specs for the 2011. They redid the suspension that year which jumped the numbers from previous years.

[Festus2]

Brent -
Let's say for discussion sake, the GVWR for my '05 GMC Duramax is 9200 lbs - the manufacturer's rating as indicated by the door sticker. If I were to add, say, Firestone Air Bags, how much of an increase should I expect in the GVWR by the addition of air bags? Will it be another 500 lbs? a 1000 lbs? 2000 lbs? Is there some data or information from Firestone that will let me know how much more towing capacity I can expect? Or is the increase "just a guess" or a number that has been thrown out there without any proof?
I guess I would be looking for something verifiable from Firestone that will state that "by the addition of these airbags, your GVWR will increase by x%".
If I do add airbags or springs, how do I know what my "new limit" will be?

The GVWR is fixed by the manufacturer of the vehicle and is the figure that is used to determine your towing capabilities and safe limits. If you add air bags or springs for the purpose of increasing the GVWR aren't you going to exceed the manufacturer's stated limits? And, if you get into an accident, as was pointed out in JRTJH's earlier post, you are pretty much "hooped" insofar as insurance and liability are concerned.

I'm not saying it can't be done but I would like to see something from GMC or any other truck manufacturer that says you can exceed the GVWR limit by adding springs or airbags and still be "legal and safe".

[rnkburg]

I have a raptor 300mp 2012 model, I use the b&w patriot hitch with a x5 curt fifth wheel adapter that goes Into my b&w gooseneck. Now I use this setup because I had the hitch before I had this particular truck.

The b&w hitches don't have sliders to my knowledge but they do come out in two peices making it more manageable if you need to remove. You may check into b&w and see if there is a slider option. I also have a Reese 16k in another truck, the b&w is a much smoother hitch with less noise.

Just my opinion but may be worth a look at there options

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

[jaeger63]

bsmith 0404,
I would hardly ever dry camp. I would tow with water in the tanks. I have a 2010 Duramax HD with airbags. Do you think I would be able to safely tow a Raptor 300MP or Fuzion 322? The most I would have in the garage at one time would be a Harley Road King.

[jaeger63]

C 130,
Do you feel your F250 is adequate(enough truck) to safely pull your Fuzion 322 with water, fuel, and cargo in the garage? My TV would be a 2010 GMC 2500 HD Duramax with airbags. I want to insure I don't buy more RV than I can safely tow fully loaded.

[bsmith0404]

I just typed up a big explanation and lost it because I timed out...I really don't want to go through it all again so I will summarize and hopefully still get the point through. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate. I never meant to imply that adding a leaf or air bags will change the GVWR. I don't like maxing my suspension or close to it. I've seen people bust springs and can only imagine how bad that could mess up a trip. You cannot change the GVWR of the vehicle. Even if you put a 2500 onto a 3500 chassis, according to the VIN and GVWR it's still a 2500. Even kits to add DRW will say do not exceed the vehicles GVWR. My point was only that you can increase the capabilities of the suspension by adding springs or air bags.

As for if a 2010 2500 can safely pull a Raptor or Fuzion. I haven't checked the specs on the 2010 (I know GM added wider springs to the 2500 which increased the GVWR, but I'm pretty sure that was in 2011). Toy haulers have larger water tanks and fuel tanks so you can take your toys to the outback and enjoy them. That extra water and fuel adds up quickly. You can easily add 1000 lbs or more before you even load a toy or gear. Every RV is different. My last RV maxed my GVWR, but was 4,400 lbs below my GCWR. my current RV is 200 lbs less on the GVWR, but only 2,000 below my GCWR. How you load your gear makes a difference as well, front vs. rear weight. Your door post will give you your GVWR, your owners manual has a chart for GCWR. I offer this information as a fellow 2500 owner. I have done a lot of research and read a lot of forums. There are a lot of people who assume and will swear that you need a 3500 without anything to back it up. Basically they buy into the hype or old school thoughts of what capabilities USED to be. Do your homework and know your truck and RV. Let the numbers speak for themselves. If the truck you have and RV you want match, you're good to go. If you want more RV than your truck can handle, get a different truck. If you don't want a different truck, find an RV within its' capabilities.

Hope this helps clarify things for everyone. Sorry to turn this thread into a debate.

[bsmith0404]

I just looked at the specs on the 2012 Fuzion 322. That thing is very heavy on the pin, 2800 lbs empty. When you start adding gear and water, you can easily get to 3500 or more. Personally, I wouldn't put that on my 2500. I was shocked to see how nose heavy it is.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I never meant to imply that adding a leaf or air bags will change the GVWR.

Let the numbers speak for themselves. If the truck you have and RV you want match, you're good to go. If you want more RV than your truck can handle, get a different truck. If you don't want a different truck, find an RV within its' capabilities.

Hope this helps clarify things for everyone. Sorry to turn this thread into a debate.

bsmith0404 -
Yes, I see where you are coming from and I guess I misinterpreted your earlier remarks. Thanks for clearing them up.

[PARAPTOR]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I just looked at the specs on the 2012 Fuzion 322. That thing is very heavy on the pin, 2800 lbs empty. When you start adding gear and water, you can easily get to 3500 or more. Personally, I wouldn't put that on my 2500. I was shocked to see how nose heavy it is.

X2 for the Raptor referenced by the OP and which I had stated in a previous post (heavy pin weight)
I think we can now conclude, given some data on Fuzions, that the Fuzions referenced by the OP are basically in the same kingpin weight class.

Bsmith0404, I am glad to see you now have the data in front of you and have come to the conclusion you did in reference to the OP question. There are valid reasons why individuals have switched and/or purchased 3500's over 2500's besides just wanting to have the biggest and best. I totally agree with you that individuals must examine the TV and trailer specification and if they are not inline change one or the other. As I stated I have been there and wished I had found this forum and learned the basics rather than rely on others (dealers, others) opinion.

In my opinion we as members have a responsibility to encourage others to make decisions based on factional information rather than opinion. Vehicle specifications do mean something and cannot be easily changed. At the same I respect others opinion even though I may not agree with them. There are risks associated with all decisions we make and in the end we need to feel comfortable/safe with those decisions. We are all on the road together at some time.

Bsmith0404, thanks for your input

I to have experienced a time out, here is something you may want to do to avoid lose of your information. Before submitting, highlight all the text in the window using the left mouse button, right mouse click in that highlighted area and pick Copy from the Pull down menu. This information is now on your clipboard.

Submit your information as normal. If goes fine you are done, if not get back in and start the post process again. In the blank post window Right mouse click in that area and choice Paste. All your information you thought you lost will be replaced in the window. Make any changes and Submit.

Hope this helps, I know what it is to type a long post and loose it

Happy Camping and be Safe

[jaeger63]

So after much research today and finally referencing a GMC website on towing and trailering I found the following information. According to GMC a 2500HD standard box crew cab duramax diesel has a Maximum Trailer Towing capacity "with a fifth wheel or goose neck hitch" of 15,800 LBS. This would lead me to believe that my truck is more than capable of safely towing any of the toy haulers I mentioned at the beginning of this post. Any thoughts on this information? I would especially like to hear from anyone who is towing the above mentioned campers with 2500 HD's. Thanks very much