Bought a Fuzion, now unsure

[Vinnie]

Hey folks! We recently just switched over from a coach that was too small for me, the wife, and two huge boys, to a spankin' new Fuzion 429, and we love the camper! In our planning to get a fifth-wheel camper, we bought a truck that we love, a beefy F-350 with the big diesel and all the bells and whistles (the dealership owner had kitted it out as his show pony and we got a sweet deal on it). When we bought the trailer, I was admittedly still ignorant of all the different weight ratings, stressing primarily over whether the tow capacity was up to the task of pulling a 15-19,000lb trailer (it is). I had no idea about the payload capacity numbers, and the dealership- from the sales guy that I asked three different ways, to the service guy who hitched it all up for me- was more than happy to make the sale without ever checking any actual numbers, with my truck being right there in front of them the entire time!

So now I know about that super-obvious payload rating sticker, and after buying the trailer, I now know the hitch weight (seems nobody in the entire dealership could come up with that number), and I'm putting a 3400lb hitch on a truck that's rated at 3200lbs capacity. And that's before adding 800lbs of human in the cab. That's bad, right? I mean, it made it home fine, the truck pulled it nice, and didn't seem any worse for wear, but I don't speak tire and couldn't hear their rubbery little cries for mercy.

I'm about to call the dealership and tell them how clusterf*cked they are, and tell them to come get it on their dime, and trade it for something I can pull safely. I really love the trailer, but I'm not buying a new truck, especially a long-bed dually, because it seems that's what I'm going to need for that trailer. I'm honestly kinda bummed that my "tow anything" beast of a truck apparently can't handle half the fifth-wheels out there, but that's learning for ya.

So, thanks for the warm welcome and any sage advice you can offer in my predicament here! I've read through a thread or two, and y'all seem to know much more than I in this department.

[flybouy]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that hitch weight you quoted is the empty hitch weight and will never be that light ponce it leaves the factory. That published weight does not include the LP tanks or the LP, or the batteries. So look let's look at the published gross maximum weight for that trailer as that's going to be closer to where you will be after you load it up. That's 20,000 lbs.

Pin weight is 20% to 25% of the trailer's weight. So 20,000 X .20 = 4,000 lbs. and 20,000 X .25 = 5,000 lbs. If you split the difference you're going to have as an estimate 4,500 lbs PLUS the weight of the fifth wheel hitch (another 200 lbs?)

So before you load yourself and your lovely family in the truck you are SERIOUSLY overweight for your current truck's 3,200 lb load capacity that you list. Depending on what the weight of the family and whatever else you throw in the bed of the truck you could be potentially reaching DOUBLE what the truck is designed to carry.

[Vinnie]

That's kinda what I guessed. I'm going to have to get creative with the dealership to get them to eat the sale, as they negligently put my family at risk. So now I'm looking at something in the 2200lb pin weight range (or lower?)- that seems like so little! Doesn't really seem like the fifth-wheel is truly designed to carry any more than a ball-hitch... which, I guess when you're thinking about it, it's not. I bought this monster of a truck, and it can't pull now like 2/3 of the fifth-wheel campers out there. I'm not gonna argue with physics, but damn that's disappointing.

Any good recommendations out there for a camper with a comfy master bed, and a full size bunk is appreciated!

[sourdough]

Here's a link to that trailer;

https://www.keystonerv.com/toy-haule...29-toy-hauler/

Please note the 3405lb. pin weight is for a completely empty trailer. Once they added batteries that number is/was forever gone.

As Marshall said, figure a minimum pin weight of 4k-4500 lbs. To that "800lbs. of human", 200lb. hitch, gear, snacks, tools etc. = say 5800. That will press a dually and is far beyond what your truck should be pulling. You might post the grey sticker inside the driver door (your yellow/black/white one too) that shows your other numbers. Although Ford is very liberal with their numbers and their charts are not very specific I suspect you will be close to maxing your gawrs and gvwr - those stickers will help.

As you are finding out, in the world of towing a 1 ton isn't so big and beefy and runs out of load carrying capacity very quickly when dealing with very large trailers.

As far as not getting a new truck - the only other option I see is a different, smaller trailer if you are stuck on the truck. Either way you skin it you are in a bad position, and one many of us have been in many times. It is costly but IMO you're either in the towing game and do it right our you shouldn't. I would not drive across town with your current setup.

[chuckster57]

Shame on your dealer for letting you get too much trailer but its more common than you think. They probably used DRY weight to convince themselves that your ok. There has been more than a few threads on who is actually responsible for assuring that your within the tow and weight rating for your tow vehicle. I would definitely argue that the dealership/salesperson had a responsibility to advise you that you were over and let you decide.

I wish you all the best in your quest to get a trailer more suited to your needs that keeps you in the weight category that makes you comfortable.

[Vinnie]

I would be inclined to agree with you if anybody in that entire place had ever once checked a single weight or rating on anything. The best I got was the sales dude glancing at my truck, asking what engine it had, and saying "yeah, you'll be ok."

[chuckster57]

I hope you are able to come to an agreeable conclusion, but IMO your facing an uphill battle. Let us know how it goes. IMHO any DECENT dealership should work with you to get you into a more suitable unit.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that hitch weight you quoted is the empty hitch weight and will never be that light ponce it leaves the factory. That published weight does not include the LP tanks or the LP, or the batteries. So look let's look at the published gross maximum weight for that trailer as that's going to be closer to where you will be after you load it up. That's 20,000 lbs.

Pin weight is 20% to 25% of the trailer's weight. So 20,000 X .20 = 4,000 lbs. and 20,000 X .25 = 5,000 lbs. If you split the difference you're going to have as an estimate 4,500 lbs PLUS the weight of the fifth wheel hitch (another 200 lbs?)

So before you load yourself and your lovely family in the truck you are SERIOUSLY overweight for your current truck's 3,200 lb load capacity that you list. Depending on what the weight of the family and whatever else you throw in the bed of the truck you could be potentially reaching DOUBLE what the truck is designed to carry.

When you say "pin" weight, are you meaning the published "hitch weight" that reads on the website? I am looking at the same thing here.

My Montana 3763 is a dry 14,065 lbs
Hitch(pin?) is 2,980 lbs
Carry Cap of 2,855 lbs.

Payload of a 2020 F-350 Lariat DRW is 6530 and towing capacity of 12,100.

My numbers would be: 14065 X .20 is 2813 lbs
14065 X .25 is 3517 lbs
Split the diff and it is: 3165 lbs..
With B&W Companion RVK3300 20k hitch @ 89 lbs

If I get a 350, am I in danger of being overweight?

[Vinnie]

Here's the stickers on my F-350 King Ranch 4x4, packing the 6.7L diesel. The equipped tires are factory, stamped with an SRW weight rating of 3750lbs each, so I assume they (and the wheels?) match the sticker exactly.

Hope the pics post correctly!

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Here's the stickers on my F-350 King Ranch 4x4, packing the 6.7L diesel. The equipped tires are factory, stamped with an SRW weight rating of 3750lbs each, so I assume they (and the wheels?) match the sticker exactly.

Hope the pics post correctly!

Dang. Am I wrong in assuming that that sounds a little weak for a SRW 350??

[Vinnie]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Dang. Am I wrong in assuming that that sounds a little weak for a SRW 350??

Right? I mean, sure it'll pull 22,000lbs, but good luck getting that load to put only a ton of pressure on the frame!

As I'm learning, the big diesel, the 4x4 gearbox, and the crew cab really cut into your payload. I'm just gonna go full on no-sh*ts-given and strap a Blues Brothers bullhorn to the roof, to get all the little girlie trucks out of my way!

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Right? I mean, sure it'll pull 22,000lbs, but good luck getting that load to put only a ton of pressure on the frame!

As I'm learning, the big diesel, the 4x4 gearbox, and the crew cab really cut into your payload. I'm just gonna go full on no-sh*ts-given and strap a Blues Brothers bullhorn to the roof, to get all the little girlie trucks out of my way!

Or just do it like me....stick with the 450.

[Badbart56]

Tell them to trade you out for a dually and you won't sue them for "negligently putting your family at risk"! It wouldn't hurt if you know a good attorney. Dealerships (both truck and RV) should be held responsible for selling you a product that is not up to the task you ask for in my opinion.

[Vinnie]

I like the way you think, but damn I really don't want to try and squeeze that big a truck in my garage (or a parking space at Home Depot)!

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

I like the way you think, but damn I really don't want to try and squeeze that big a truck in my garage (or a parking space at Home Depot)!

Sacrifices might have to be made.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

I like the way you think, but damn I really don't want to try and squeeze that big a truck in my garage (or a parking space at Home Depot)!

Had a dually as our daily driver for 15 years. Once you get accustom to it it's no different than any other, but may not fit in your garage.
Also if you look closely the F450 is more truck in a lot of ways than the F350 EXCEPT in payload.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

When you say "pin" weight, are you meaning the published "hitch weight" that reads on the website? I am looking at the same thing here.

My Montana 3763 is a dry 14,065 lbs
Hitch(pin?) is 2,980 lbs
Carry Cap of 2,855 lbs.

Payload of a 2020 F-350 Lariat DRW is 6530 and towing capacity of 12,100.

My numbers would be: 14065 X .20 is 2813 lbs
14065 X .25 is 3517 lbs
Split the diff and it is: 3165 lbs..
With B&W Companion RVK3300 20k hitch @ 89 lbs

If I get a 350, am I in danger of being overweight?

The F350 you are looking at is it gas or diesel?
a towing capacity makes me think it is either a 6.2 or 7.3 with 3.73 gears. NO WAY I would want to pull a 17,000# GVWR 5er with a gas engine.

You are not in danger of being over Payload of the TV, just way over its ablity to move the load.

[flybouy]

Yes pin weight is same as hitch weight. The relatively low payload number is a direct result of the diesel, and the trim level. I have a F150 King Ranch that's limited by the trim level as well. That's why many of us keep telling folks it's the sticker on the truck that matters. The manufacturers will publish a number prefaced by the words "up to".

They publish those numbers on a stripped down model. Add power windows, power seats, leather seats, fancy center console, more heat and a/controls, a big screen radio/gps, another dozen speakers and separate amplifiers, a heavy subwoofer, etc. and the weight adds up. That weight comes right off the payload number.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Right? I mean, sure it'll pull 22,000lbs, but good luck getting that load to put only a ton of pressure on the frame!

As I'm learning, the big diesel, the 4x4 gearbox, and the crew cab really cut into your payload. I'm just gonna go full on no-sh*ts-given and strap a Blues Brothers bullhorn to the roof, to get all the little girlie trucks out of my way!

It's a King Ranch trim level. You can't get one packed with any more options.

Options = Weight, which in turn equals a lot less payload.

Also, it could be possible your vehicle was ordered with the de-rated GVWR 'option'. This is sometimes done to make the vehicle less costly to register. It's a paper only reduction (no physical component differences) but since your truck's payload is GVWR - curb weight, it will lower your payload.

I purchased my F350 SRW gasser off the lot. It had the 10,000 lb GVWR de-rate. As a result, my payload is 3,271. Without the de-rate it would be 1,400 lbs more (11,400 GVWR)

[cynnich]

Sorry but a dealer will always say sure that’ll tow it. We have the F450 dually with our Fuzion 414. It pulls great. We used to use a Silverado 3500 dually but it got old and we had to replace. The F450 was really easy to connect to the trailer. It’s fine to drive locally too. If you don’t want a dually you will need to replace the trailer for safety. Sorry. Just my opinion based on 20 years camping and what I’ve absorbed from my husband talking about pin weights etc.