RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-26-2020, 04:34 AM   #1
Mlalonde
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Leander
Posts: 4
On Demand Water Heater Control Issue

Good morning all and Happy Thanksgiving! So much to be thankful for today so I'm going to keep things positive but I need some expert help. I'll try to be brief.

2020 Alpine 3851RD purchased brand new about 2 months ago. Currently on third camping trip.

Unit has Suburban Nautilus RL tankless HWH system. Trip one, works like a champ. Trip 2, no hot water (I'll explain), then to dealer for three weeks, found no problems found, then trip three (where I'm typing this) no hot water.

Symptoms. HWH is propane only and propane is on and working fine (all other propane systems function like furnace, stove, etc.). So I have gas flow.

System uses "On Demand" control panel. Turn unit on, no spark, flame or fan icons. Displays temp desired and the little "play" icon representing the recirculate heating option (which won't turn on or off by the way). Run one, multiple, all hot water faucets to create flow. Great water pressure (even removed the water pressure regulator just in case). Won't show it's trying to spark, heck, won't show anything on the display except temp and "play" icon. Then after 30 seconds, shuts off (on demand goes back to "off" status). I've read everything I can find on the internet and in the manuals to no avail. I sense that my HWH is ok but the control panel is not functioning properly. OR the flow sensor is just not working. Why the dealer said no problems found is beyond me. They said "110 degrees is not hot enough to make it work and you need to be at 120". OK, so I changed it. Now it's even on 130 and still no hot water so..... Yeah.

Anyone ever have this issue and if so, is there some level of reset, etc.?

Again, we're blessed. Here at a great KOA in Oklahoma (casinos are open on Thanksgiving). They have hot water showers so I can't complain. But I'd like this resolved without taking it back to the dealer again (so they can keep it for another month) and them not fix it.

BTW, currently on city water connection, full hook ups. Might try to fill the fresh water holding tank and use the water pump to see if it makes any difference. Can't imagine it would.

Thank in advance, all for any input that may help.

Mitchell
__________________

Mlalonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #2
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 1,506
Id check the manual Eco switch...see attached pic and also Id do a reset of BCM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6F6E4FA0-7CF2-4BDA-8701-A5BDF99044F8.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	143.1 KB
ID:	30943  
__________________

__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 05:56 AM   #3
Mlalonde
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Leander
Posts: 4
Thank you sir. I'll give that a shot. Much appreciated. I'll post and update after I try it.
Mlalonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 05:48 AM   #4
Mlalonde
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Leander
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Id check the manual Eco switch...see attached pic and also Id do a reset of BCM
Worked like a champ! Thank you sir.
Mlalonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 06:04 AM   #5
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 1,506
Glad to hear things are working again
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 11:12 AM   #6
falconetti
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Boerne
Posts: 17
Just an FYI residential tankless get destroyed by hard water. Heat exchangers and flow switches are always on the mend and residential manufacturing requires a water softener for anY warranty claims. I plumbed in a mini water softener in our raptor. Sits under my slide. Regenerates automatic and dumps
Into my flush fitting on my slinky.
falconetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 11:41 AM   #7
lunge motorsport
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: San Ramon
Posts: 55
Great comment Falcon


I would add that in my experience as a residential/commercial tankless installer and service provider that while salt based softeners do remove TDS from the water there are still heaters that suffer from heat exchanger failures with softeners. I advise my clients to add a scale inhibitor system to the supply side of the water heater. There is a small system by Aqua Pure called an AP 430. It does not filter but is an emitter of sorts. Very small and compact and piped using 3/4'' npt female thread connections.


Another consideration is air quality. Dirty air will foul flame rods, clog the gas manifold and burner ports.
__________________
Can't wipe off the grin
lunge motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 01:32 PM   #8
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 1,506
Im glad I have a plain Suburban water Heater
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 03:06 PM   #9
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 10,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Im glad I have a plain Suburban water Heater

^^^^x2 - 100% agree.
__________________
Danny & Susan wife of 53 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 03:15 PM   #10
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 19,871
I think the move to demand water heaters came when Keystone installed a soaking tub in the Montana line "front luxury bath" models. A 12 gallon water heater simply could never provide enough hot water to fill a 50-60 gallon tub. So, the "work around" was the demand water heater. It works well (in theory) but not so well (in implementation)....

We had a "flash water heater" in Turkey, a propane model that hung on the wall beside the kitchen sink. Any time someone turned on a hot water faucet, we'd yell, "FIRE IN THE HOLE" to warn anyone standing at the kitchen sink to duck.... If not, the flashback from a delayed ignition would "singe the hair on your head"..... I'm not a fan of demand water heaters, in homes or in RV's....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 03:46 PM   #11
Mlalonde
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Leander
Posts: 4
Haha. That's crazy! But hey! Never a dull moment right?

As for the mini salt based softener, already got it. I live in a part of Central Texas that has taught me lessons about hard water. So I'm good as far as an in-line softener goes. As for the other part I'll definitely look into it. Makes total sense.

I like having instant and relatively unlimited hot water. I don't, however, like new things that are a pain in the backside to work on and will likely break when you need them most.

All, I truly appreciate the input. Well noted.
Mlalonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 08:22 PM   #12
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunge motorsport View Post
while salt based softeners do remove TDS from the water there are still heaters that suffer from heat exchanger failures with softeners.
In the course of figuring out why my home water softener "wasn't doing anything," I discovered last year that salt-based softeners remove only part of the TDS from your water (the part that characterizes "hard water") but there are a whole lot of other DS that go right through them and sediment things up. I discovered that our well out here has massive TDS, but perfectly soft water.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 10:03 PM   #13
falconetti
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Boerne
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven View Post
In the course of figuring out why my home water softener "wasn't doing anything," I discovered last year that salt-based softeners remove only part of the TDS from your water (the part that characterizes "hard water") but there are a whole lot of other DS that go right through them and sediment things up. I discovered that our well out here has massive TDS, but perfectly soft water.
Ion exchange softeners They remove calcium lime and magnesium, well water can require more extensive treatment. I'm pro softener for the RV, descaler units are a great no maintenance option as stated above. I will never have a tank style heater in my RV, I do not like having a limit on hot water. We would run out in the Montana when the kids were with us.
__________________

falconetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
heat, heater, water, water heater

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×