Power converter smoked - Page 2

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

12vdc and 120vac systems ARE separate.....with some common points....yes, confusing. Your converter is the "mixer" in the middle. It takes your 120vac coming in and converts it to 12vdc to charge/augment/power your 12vdc system. It operates over the 12v separate system but is powered by 120vac. Similar to say your AC which is powered by 120vac but controlled by a 12vdc control board......So, separate systems....but with some common areas.

Oh, that part I actually understand haha! The simplest way to put it is why is my 120 not working if it is the CONverter that went out?

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2020, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Oh, that part I actually understand haha! The simplest way to put it is why is my 120 not working if it is the CONverter that went out?

The refrigerator and the thermostat CONTROL systems are 12 volt systems. If the 12 volts used to "trigger" the refrigerator and the thermostat fail, then they can't control how the 120 volts is applied in those appliances, so both the refrigerator and the Air Conditioner will stop working when the converter/battery power stops going to their 12 volt control systems.

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The refrigerator and the thermostat CONTROL systems are 12 volt systems. If the 12 volts used to "trigger" the refrigerator and the thermostat fail, then they can't control how the 120 volts is applied in those appliances, so both the refrigerator and the Air Conditioner will stop working when the converter/battery power stops going to their 12 volt control systems.

That clears things up immensely. I didn't even think about the thermostat... The fridge immediately went to propane but I understand what you're saying! The only other real question I have is, the higher amp the converter is, the more available wattage? So there would be a benefit to getting say, an 80 to replace the 65? We're full timing in ours and I need it to be as safe and reliable as possible, all this power equipment is my kids bedroom and it scared me pretty bad when that happened last night. It really worries me to have something on the verge of enough when I could have something larger to ensure it is safe

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 09:01 AM

Also, can I unplug the converter from the back of the breaker panel and sagely use the ac that is not on a thermostat?

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2020, 09:14 AM

You asked two questions, so two answers:

First, have you had, in the past, any issues with discharged/dead batteries or slow charging? Have you had any issues with "lights dimming when the furnace comes on? Any issues with "lack of 12 volt power" ???

If not, then the 65 amp converter is properly sized for your rig. Our Cougar has a 55 amp converter (as do most of Keystone's trailers) and I've never had a problem with "limited DC output" from the converter...

So I'd suspect you'll be "just fine" with the 65 amp converter replacment.

Second, you asked if it's safe to unplug the converter and use the 120 volt system... The answer is, "Yes, it's safe to use that system, as long as there is no damage to that system"...

Realize that the refrigerator, furnace, air conditioner (thermostat control), lights in the trailer are ALL 12 volt powered, so with the converter unplugged, all of those will only work until the battery dies, then they will ALL stop working....

So, as a "temporary workaround, (NOT A PERMANENT SOLUTION) until you get a replacement converter:

1. Unplug the existing converter and disconnect the two "battery leads" from the converter. Isolate the wires by taping them with electrical tape (so they don't short out).

2. Buy a 12 amp battery charger from Walmart or a parts store, connect it to your current battery terminals (inside the battery box) and plug that charger into the trailer 120 volt system so you can at least get "some battery charging" during the time from "now until the new converter is installed"...

3. Realize that you'll only have 12 amps (not 65 amps) of DC power, so you'll be limited to the amount of lights, radio, etc that you can use.

4. Once the new converter is installed and operational, REMOVE THE FREE STANDING BATTERY CHARGER from the battery terminal connections. If you leave it connected, the new converter will "sense the 12 volts" and keep itself turned off (thinking the battery voltage is high enough that charging is not necessary)....

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

You asked two questions, so two answers:

First, have you had, in the past, any issues with discharged/dead batteries or slow charging? Have you had any issues with "lights dimming when the furnace comes on? Any issues with "lack of 12 volt power" ???

If not, then the 65 amp converter is properly sized for your rig. Our Cougar has a 55 amp converter (as do most of Keystone's trailers) and I've never had a problem with "limited DC output" from the converter...

So I'd suspect you'll be "just fine" with the 65 amp converter replacment.

Second, you asked if it's safe to unplug the converter and use the 120 volt system... The answer is, "Yes, it's safe to use that system, as long as there is no damage to that system"...

Realize that the refrigerator, furnace, air conditioner (thermostat control), lights in the trailer are ALL 12 volt powered, so with the converter unplugged, all of those will only work until the battery dies, then they will ALL stop working....

So, as a "temporary workaround, (NOT A PERMANENT SOLUTION) until you get a replacement converter:

1. Unplug the existing converter and disconnect the two "battery leads" from the converter. Isolate the wires by taping them with electrical tape (so they don't short out).

2. Buy a 12 amp battery charger from Walmart or a parts store, connect it to your current battery terminals (inside the battery box) and plug that charger into the trailer 120 volt system so you can at least get "some battery charging" during the time from "now until the new converter is installed"...

3. Realize that you'll only have 12 amps (not 65 amps) of DC power, so you'll be limited to the amount of lights, radio, etc that you can use.

4. Once the new converter is installed and operational, REMOVE THE FREE STANDING BATTERY CHARGER from the battery terminal connections. If you leave it connected, the new converter will "sense the 12 volts" and keep itself turned off (thinking the battery voltage is high enough that charging is not necessary)....

OK, that's what I was wondering, I'm putting a converter on today for sure, I just wanted to cool it down and not work on there while it's 94 degrees if possible.

After getting back and checking it out, the power cord and 50 amp plug are melted... Guess no ac until I repair the cord as well.

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2020, 09:25 AM

If the 50 amp shore power cord and plug are "melted" then you've got significantly more than "just a converter problem". There is a 15 amp circuit breaker on the converter outlet. If it didn't open, then something else overloaded the 50 amp cord and melted the plug...

There's more than just a converter problem here !!!!!

From your photos, that looks like a lightening strike or an "unexplained voltage surge".... IMHO, the converter "smoking itself" is a result of what is in those photos, not the cause of those photos !!!!!

wiredgeorge · 07-29-2020, 09:27 AM

Ahhhh! See you checked the wires. Good thing.

**flybouy** · 07-29-2020, 09:29 AM

From that photo it looks like the plug was arcing on the one line. I'd be demanding that the cg replace not only that outlet but also replace your shore power cable. That looks to me like a failure of the outlet and fixing the shore power cord and using that outlet will only lead to it failing again.

travelin texans · 07-29-2020, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

OK, that's what I was wondering, I'm putting a converter on today for sure, I just wanted to cool it down and not work on there while it's 94 degrees if possible.

After getting back and checking it out, the power cord and 50 amp plug are melted... Guess no ac until I repair the cord as well.

The plug at the pedestal is likely the cause of all your issues. I'd have the cg repair the pedestal, replace your cord, possibly cover the cost of the converter & WOULD NOT plug in to that pedestal or any other until you have an EMS or risk the same issues from poor cg power.

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 10:15 AM

Well I would be leaning toward it being their fault in the plug side but my cord on the plug side was severely corroded inside... I think it had been arcing due to corrosion. The leg that was burnt happens to have both acs on it... I cut the cord down a foot or so on both sides, the corrosion stops almost immediately after the plug and the wires aren't burnt inside the cord. So... I'm going to replace the cord ends, converter and move one of the ac breakers to the other bar in the breaker box. There are two bars inside the box and both acs are on one and install an ems

**sourdough** · 07-29-2020, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Well I would be leaning toward it being their fault in the plug side but my cord on the plug side was severely corroded inside... I think it had been arcing due to corrosion. The leg that was burnt happens to have both acs on it... I cut the cord down a foot or so on both sides, the corrosion stops almost immediately after the plug and the wires aren't burnt inside the cord. So... I'm going to replace the cord ends, converter and move one of the ac breakers to the other bar in the breaker box. There are two bars inside the box and both acs are on one and install an ems

I doesn't matter what you do on your side of that power plug (ped), it has to be replaced before you use it again or you are going to go right back down this path again.

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 10:40 AM

They're replacing the outlet now, is that what you're talking about?

**flybouy** · 07-29-2020, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Well I would be leaning toward it being their fault in the plug side but my cord on the plug side was severely corroded inside... I think it had been arcing due to corrosion. The leg that was burnt happens to have both acs on it... I cut the cord down a foot or so on both sides, the corrosion stops almost immediately after the plug and the wires aren't burnt inside the cord. So... I'm going to replace the cord ends, converter and move one of the ac breakers to the other bar in the breaker box. There are two bars inside the box and both acs are on one and install an ems

There will be discoloration and a green to white substance when copper wire band insulation burns. The heat will damage the wire for a distance back from the source until it can dissipate. I'm guessing what you are interpeting as corrosion is actually heat damage.

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

There will be discoloration and a green to white substance when copper wire band insulation burns. The heat will damage the wire for a distance back from the source until it can dissipate. I'm guessing what you are interpeting as corrosion is actually heat damage.

Oh, yea, thats what it looks like, white powder. So it could be on their side I guess if it was the outlet that heated it to begin with

**flybouy** · 07-29-2020, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

Oh, yea, thats what it looks like, white powder. So it could be on their side I guess if it was the outlet that heated it to begin with

That's correct. The contact in the outlet was loose or corroded causing the current to arc to your plug. That creates heat and a carbon build up which creates more resistance making it heat more etc. until it catchs fire or fails.

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 10:56 AM

It was insanely hot at some point. The plug connecting to the camper was melted so bad it wouldn't come out. I had to remove it from the camper along with the receptacle...

**sourdough** · 07-29-2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovelamp

They're replacing the outlet now, is that what you're talking about?

Correct. From your other comments I assume you are replacing both the plug and receptacle on the trailer end as well?

ilovelamp · 07-29-2020, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

Correct. From your other comments I assume you are replacing both the plug and receptacle on the trailer end as well?

Yes, the wiring on the cord isn't discolored at all, so the:
Converter
Both ends of the shore cord
RV receptacle
And install an ems

wiredgeorge · 07-29-2020, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

The plug at the pedestal is likely the cause of all your issues. I'd have the cg repair the pedestal, replace your cord, possibly cover the cost of the converter & WOULD NOT plug in to that pedestal or any other until you have an EMS or risk the same issues from poor cg power.

Good luck getting a camp ground to take responsibility for damages that were caused by their electrical supply. The EMS should be part of the OP's future and if it isn't this may happen again. MOST camp grounds in my neck of the woods have a guy that cuts the grass and weed eats who does electrical repairs so not counting on that pedestal ever being right.

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