Towing Advice

[RenCaro]

I have a 2017 ram1500 quad with 5.7 8 speed 3.92’s
With 450lbs inside, 500 lbs in box
With my trailer unloaded 6045 and gaver 7795 with 795 on the pin, I should fall safe
I’m also on 35’s with a level kit and as springs

[notanlines]

I noticed that some members seem to throw the term 'hemi' around like it had a particular significance we should all be aware of. I looked back in my Hot Rod mag's and found an interesting article by an individual with a better than average knowledge of automotive engineering. It truly is of interest to those of us who love horsepower as much as feet per second and well, I could go on and on. Ah, I loved the 60's when young people didn't think that just because it was loud it was fast and a whole group of stupids didn't put an extension on their exhaust the size of a volleyball.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hemi-engine-pros-cons/

[markcee]

Originally Posted by RenCaro

I have a 2017 ram1500 quad with 5.7 8 speed 3.92’s
With 450lbs inside, 500 lbs in box
With my trailer unloaded 6045 and gaver 7795 with 795 on the pin, I should fall safe
I’m also on 35’s with a level kit and as springs

Don't be so sure. If you've read through the thread you'll see that what you will likely run out of first on a 1/2 ton is payload capacity.

You probably have closer to 900 lbs on the pin as well. I'm basing that on 13% of your trailer, if modestly loaded at 7K. Add to that the 950 lbs you say you are carrying in the truck and bed and another 100 for a weight distributing hitch (if you didn't include that in your 950) and that adds up to you needing 1950 pounds of payload. Anything else you or anyone else added to the truck after delivery (like those heavier 35's) will also take away from your available payload and needs to be factored in.

Take a look at the yellow/white/black sticker on the driver's side door pillar and see what it says for 'the weight of cargo and passengers should not exceed.....'

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I noticed that some members seem to throw the term 'hemi' around like it had a particular significance we should all be aware of. I looked back in my Hot Rod mag's and found an interesting article by an individual with a better than average knowledge of automotive engineering. It truly is of interest to those of us who love horsepower as much as feet per second and well, I could go on and on. Ah, I loved the 60's when young people didn't think that just because it was loud it was fast and a whole group of stupids didn't put an extension on their exhaust the size of a volleyball.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hemi-engine-pros-cons/

I grin every time I read someone who drank the Kool-Aid tout their "Hemi" as the "magic" that will allow them to tow anything. I give the advertising boys credit as they have sold a bunch of vehicles by referencing the "legendary" Hemi badge that's based on 70 year old technology.

To me, "Hemi" has about as much validity as "new and improved" on a box of laundry detergent. JMHO

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I grin every time I read someone who drank the Kool-Aid tout their "Hemi" as the "magic" that will allow them to tow anything. I give the advertising boys credit as they have sold a bunch of vehicles by referencing the "legendary" Hemi badge that's based on 70 year old technology.

To me, "Hemi" has about as much validity as "new and improved" on a box of laundry detergent. JMHO

Now, now. I was in those days when it came out. I was a Chevy guy. A 426 would kick a Chevy 427 virtually every time, same with the Ford 427 (my cousin owned a 426 - 69 if I recall). They really did run well. Their time came to an end all too quickly. Think they were only available for a couple/few years but man, they could smoke tires for what seemed like forever....a wonderful sight, and smell, for a teenager - or.....young man.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Now, now. I was in those days when it came out. I was a Chevy guy. A 426 would kick a Chevy 427 virtually every time, same with the Ford 427 (my cousin owned a 426 - 69 if I recall). They really did run well. Their time came to an end all too quickly. Think they were only available for a couple/few years but man, they could smoke tires for what seemed like forever....a wonderful sight, and smell, for a teenager - or.....young man.

Danny, that would be the "legendary" I referenced. But a big, heavy hunk of iron up front doesn't always translate into speed. Often a smaller, lighter, quicker revving higher revving is better. Depends on what your doing. The hemi was good off the line with it's low end torque but sucked at rally car, dirt tracks, and just about anything other than straight line racing. Thing is, the resurrection of the hemi ain't the hemi of yesteryear and they certainly don't have a corner on the performance market or are without competition. Not bashing the hemi, just how people throw the name around like it's the be all to end all.

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by Stickman

No doubt the current 1500 V6 is dangerously overloaded and overtaxed. Not sure how replacing the V6 with a heavier V8 and most likely a heavier 8 speed tranny in the same 1/2 ton chassis equates to more cargo capacity. The reality is it will still be a 1/2 ton chassis trying to control what will realistically be an 8000 lb. sail behind it. No amount of light truck tire, Timbrens, Billsteins, etc. will change the math. Children grow and get heavier along with the crap they" just have to have" along. Plus the loads always creep up naturally whether we admit it or not. The truth is he is better and more safely served by a 3/4 ton chassis, minimum.
No need to spend upwards of $50,000 plus either. We just picked up a good as new nicely trimmed 2019 Ram Bighorn CC 4x4 6.4L(it's an animal) for $40,000. Cargo capacity of 3060 lb. on the sticker and it tugs our 36 ft Sprinter TT without drama or stress.

Hi Douglas,
You're absolutely right, the OP knows he's over his capacity, and as I posted earlier in the thread it's hard to find a good used HD truck up here. The $40k truck you speak of quickly turns into $60, 375.90 CAN exclusive of amount owing on trade in and 6.99% interest. Now bring that price down to something that meets his acceptable payment (if any) means he's the proud owner of a 2010 (maybe) 2500 and with Canadian winters and rust, the metal fatigue is immeasurable.
He knows what the score is now and will dig himself out, combined with almost being imprisoned with this Covid BS and a looming second wave up here he needs to consider what his options are.

The only saving grace is that his neck of the woods is pretty flat, and this is not an endorsement for doing this, but, hauling close to home on calm sunny days driving slightly below the speed limit with the option of leaving it at a park are both doable.

Douglas, this reply is not meant to single you out.

The gravity of the op's situation is a learned lesson, like myself and countless others here that may have gone through this long before I got here. He seems like a good guy.

He will do the right thing when the opportunity presents itself.

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Danny, that would be the "legendary" I referenced. But a big, heavy hunk of iron up front doesn't always translate into speed. Often a smaller, lighter, quicker revving higher revving is better. Depends on what your doing. The hemi was good off the line with it's low end torque but sucked at rally car, dirt tracks, and just about anything other than straight line racing. Thing is, the resurrection of the hemi ain't the hemi of yesteryear and they certainly don't have a corner on the performance market or are without competition. Not bashing the hemi, just how people throw the name around like it's the be all to end all.

Kinda like Hardley Davidson?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Kinda like Hardley Davidson?

You mean back when AMF bought them out and they'd shake like the pins in a bowling alley? Oh yes, that's when folks "lovingly" called them "Hardly Runs".

Guess I'm making a lot of enemies tonight!

[notanlines]

As a long, long time Harley rider, I’ll say this: You’re absolutely right, but I’m not riding a Honda, my friends might see me. But if there was a Road King and a Gold Wing sitting on the street in front of your house, guess which one the kids are going to gather around? Not a basher, but nothing like the feel of a big v-twin. Yes, I know fast. Spent two days on a Kawasaki Ninja at Sturgis three years ago. Scary fast no matter your age, but just not the same. Different strokes, etc. I just wish those with the jacked trucks with no mud underneath, rolling coal, and ah, never mind, no one here like that!

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

As a long, long time Harley rider, I’ll say this: You’re absolutely right. I’m not riding a Honda; my friends might see me. But if there was a Road King and a Gold Wing sitting on the street in front of your house, guess which one the kids are going to gather around? Not a basher, but nothing like the feel of a big v-twin. Yes, I know fast. Spent two days on a Kawasaki Ninja at Sturgis three years ago. Scary fast no matter your age, but just not the same. Different strokes, etc. I just wish those with the jacked trucks with no mud underneath, rolling coal, and ah, never mind, no one here like that!

Sorry, thought you would be in bed by now

[JRTJH]

If you want an example of "frighteningly scary", re-read post #55. If the situation described there is accurate, CW (or the "team" at a particular CW) are giving advice/selling parts to the unsuspecting public that could well border on "criminal activity"... Certainly it is immoral or "just flat out wrong" to twist the truth and sell heavier accessories to make a truck "carry more" while taking "big bucks" from an unsuspecting customer.....

The "salesmanship" in some businesses is "off the charts" !!!!!

[Rubicon100]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If you want an example of "frighteningly scary", re-read post #55. If the situation described there is accurate, CW (or the "team" at a particular CW) are giving advice/selling parts to the unsuspecting public that could well border on "criminal activity"... Certainly it is immoral or "just flat out wrong" to twist the truth and sell heavier accessories to make a truck "carry more" while taking "big bucks" from an unsuspecting customer.....

The "salesmanship" in some businesses is "off the charts" !!!!!

You were one of the first people who actually made it easy to understand. Life has been good towing now and I don't have to do the loading shuffle, as my wife used to call it.
Thanks to all of you guys I have plenty enough truck and if we ever want a bigger camper we'll upgrade the truck if nesasery.

[Rubicon100]

And the camping world trip with my uncle was spot on. Their is a truck stop right next to the dealer and they spent the entire day trying to get everything level but never once did they worry about the weight of the camper. He's still convinced that he is fine.
We went on a trip together and when we met up with them my wife said that the setup they have reminded her of pac man, it looked like the camper was trying to eat the truck lol.
Have a good day everyone and stay safe. Dan

[tech740]

Originally Posted by Rubicon100

You were one of the first people who actually made it easy to understand. Life has been good towing now and I don't have to do the loading shuffle, as my wife used to call it.
Thanks to all of you guys I have plenty enough truck and if we ever want a bigger camper we'll upgrade the truck if nesasery.

The thing I find interesting is how easy it is once you put some effort into it and accept that dry weight and towing capacity mean nothing. Payload dictates everything when towing an RV. I started with the overloaded 1/2 ton. Went to a 3/4 ton diesel and overloaded that also. Now in the 1 ton I am good but any larger an I will be in a dually. Really once you take the appropriate % of GVW it all makes sense. When talking to people in person I show them the formula then the sticker on there door and ask "with that info would you buy this truck for this task again?" Usually the answer is NO. My brother pulls a 43' 15,500lb 5er with a 2017 2500 6.0 gas Chevy. Swears its great til we travel together and he cant pull an overpass without slowing down.

[Rubicon100]

I grew up on a farm and drove dodge diesels most of my life. 1997 12 valve 2 wheel drive, 1999 two wheel drive dually, 2001 4x4 dually and then a 2004 2500 4x4.
When we sold our place and moved closer to town I bought my first 1500 Silverado. I had no plans on getting a camper but there we were. I'll never forget the drive home, the tech who set up my hitch had no business doing it. It was the first time I have ever been scared ****less driving my truck, anything over 45mph and we were out of control.
I replaced the tires with Michelin 10 ply, put a sway bar on the rear, new shocks and airbags and I had already modified the truck for horsepower. The truck pulled our camper awesome and I mean it was very comfortable and no problem with sway but I was always within 50 pounds of payload and I don't like leaving things at home. So I came here and learned the difference between towing 6,000lbs on a flat trailer and towing a 30ft travel trailer. I probably could have kept using my 2012 but we were in a position to lease a nice truck for two years and decide if we like it or not. We don't so we are now shopping for a ram 4x4 2500 gas. May go ahead and get the 3500, we'll see what kind of deals are out there.

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by HideoutSpadz

Hi....Newbie Tower here

I have a 2019 1500 V6 with 3:55 ratio. My tow capacity is 7490 and my GCWR is 12,900.....dealership advised that it is actually 13,900 but manufacturers always give a 1,000lbs buffer????

Also on paper, my payload is 2100 to which my calculations look like this:
Tongue weight -780
Occupants -500
Interior Crap (2 car seats & odds) -100
Gear -300/400 MAX
———total 1780


Here’s my situation/question:
I recently bought a travel trailer (Hideout 272BH) that weighs 6100....add an additional 200/300 pounds for bedding and some stuff we keep in storage bays). I have a weight distribution hitch/sway bar setup.
When towing with my family and gear I estimate that my total weight (fuelled truck/trailer/people/gear) is around 12,200ish which gives me at least 700lbs in GCVW space BUT when towing in relatively flat (small-medium hills) My engine sits at b/n 3200/3500 RPMS in tow/haul mode.

Additionally, in tow/haul mode it has a hell of a time switching gears in 3rd/4th.

should I be concerned?
Was I advised incorrectly by both RV & Dodge dealerships on capability?
Is this a lemon?
Do I need a 5.7/V8 Hemi?

any help/guidance is greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Hi Douglas,
You're absolutely right, the OP knows he's over his capacity, and as I posted earlier in the thread it's hard to find a good used HD truck up here. The $40k truck you speak of quickly turns into $60, 375.90 CAN exclusive of amount owing on trade in and 6.99% interest. Now bring that price down to something that meets his acceptable payment (if any) means he's the proud owner of a 2010 (maybe) 2500 and with Canadian winters and rust, the metal fatigue is immeasurable.
He knows what the score is now and will dig himself out, combined with almost being imprisoned with this Covid BS and a looming second wave up here he needs to consider what his options are.

The only saving grace is that his neck of the woods is pretty flat, and this is not an endorsement for doing this, but, hauling close to home on calm sunny days driving slightly below the speed limit with the option of leaving it at a park are both doable.

Douglas, this reply is not meant to single you out.

The gravity of the op's situation is a learned lesson, like myself and countless others here that may have gone through this long before I got here. He seems like a good guy.

He will do the right thing when the opportunity presents itself.

I was not trying to dog on the OP. In fact I applaud him for realizing he's in a bad situation and seeking advice here. However, he seems to be set on believing increasing engine performance in what is essentially the same chassis is going to improve the overall towing experience. He will be moving from an inadequate TV to one that will be...yeah....well...adequate.....mostly, but without much effort become inadequate.....again.
I realize the used HD market in the "great white north" is nil. It's no endless field of daisies to pick in my neck of the woods either. Stumbling upon the deal we got on that Ram was one of those elusive right place at the right time moments. Here in Minnesota I also understand salt and know it's hard to find good used vehicles that are not already corroding.
I'm sure the OP probably is a good guy, and if he takes the advice here to heart will hopefully do what is right within his means. RV folks are typically salt of the earth types who care about there fellow humans. I apologize if it seems I went overboard in my opinion/advice. Whatever TV decision he makes, I just want him, his family and everyone who shares the road to be safe. There's hardly a day goes by on my work commute where I don't see questionable and often outright dangerous towing practices being executed by the public at large. Many, no doubt believing that "yeah,I'm good".

[Northofu1]

I didn't think that at all sir. I definitely know where you're coming from. 100% right on the salt of the earth in regards to the membership here.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Rubicon100

Some of you guys are awesome. I complement your patience. I have been dealing with my uncle all summer about why his truck is so hard to drive with the camper on.
He has a 2010 f150 with the 4.6 and he's pulling a 36' Forest River windjammer with 3 slideouts.
His truck is rated for towing 10,500lbs . I asked him about his scaled weights and he said he has never been to the scales, the dealer said that his truck is fine.
I talked him into going to the scales and I would explain the numbers to him. His gvwr is 6800lbs. Axles are 3450 each. When we weighed it his rear axle was 5900lbs and his front was 2200lbs.
The trailer axles were 8800lbs. He didn't see a problem, his truck can tow 10,500 and the camper only weighed 8800lbs. I tried explaining to him that the tounge weight was part of the camper and he was dangerously overweight.
He took it back to camping world and they told him that he needed to go to the 12,000lb equalizer from the 10,000 and he would be fine.
Anyway he spent an entire day there and he ended up with new airbags and thinks all is good. His truck has a camper shell and he has a Honda 3500 generator in the bed on one of those fancy slide out trays.
I don't understand how hard it is for some people to know what the weights mean.
Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent off some steam.
You guys have always been very patient and polite and I have learned a lot since I bought my first camper, thank you all for trying to keep everyone safe, Dan

I had a 2013 F150 with the mighty 4.6L and that thing didn't like to tow a single axle motorcycle trailer. Gas mileage went from 18 mpg to about 12 mpg with a 500-600 lb motorcycle on the trailer (home made with a car axle and 15" GM rims). Your uncle must be a pistol! That is WAYYYYYY too much trailer for ANY 1/2 ton.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Hi Douglas,
You're absolutely right, the OP knows he's over his capacity, and as I posted earlier in the thread it's hard to find a good used HD truck up here. The $40k truck you speak of quickly turns into $60, 375.90 CAN exclusive of amount owing on trade in and 6.99% interest. Now bring that price down to something that meets his acceptable payment (if any) means he's the proud owner of a 2010 (maybe) 2500 and with Canadian winters and rust, the metal fatigue is immeasurable.
He knows what the score is now and will dig himself out, combined with almost being imprisoned with this Covid BS and a looming second wave up here he needs to consider what his options are.

The only saving grace is that his neck of the woods is pretty flat, and this is not an endorsement for doing this, but, hauling close to home on calm sunny days driving slightly below the speed limit with the option of leaving it at a park are both doable.

Douglas, this reply is not meant to single you out.

The gravity of the op's situation is a learned lesson, like myself and countless others here that may have gone through this long before I got here. He seems like a good guy.

He will do the right thing when the opportunity presents itself.

When I was looking for a one ton gas truck I did searches on a nationwide basis and especially where I had (or my wife had to be more correct) relatives I could mooch a room off of when I drove the truck home. Almost every truck north of the Mason-Dixon line was a rust bucket (in my limited price range". Can't say for sure but I bet Canadian roads are covered with salt a lot?