Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-21-2013, 02:32 AM   #1
davidjsimons
Senior Member
 
davidjsimons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 865
5.0 V-8 Cummins

Nissan has announced that a deal has been finalized with Cummins to introduce their new generation 1/2 ton pickup with. 5.0 liter V-8 Cummins. The engine will produce 300 horse power and 550 lb ft of torque. The pickup should be available for either the 2015 or '16 year model.


2013 Cougar 28 RBS
2012 Ram 3500 Dually
6.7 Cummins H.O.
4.10 rears.
davidjsimons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 04:45 AM   #2
hankpage
Site Team
 
hankpage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
If so and they put it in their van too, they are bound to pick up a large portion of the van market also. JM2˘
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
hankpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 03:21 PM   #3
Cougarfamily
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NW New Mexico
Posts: 182
Wonder if this also means that they will bring out a 3/4 ton truck? Would give heavier duty towers another option.
__________________



2005 F-250 PSD 4X4 SWB
2012 Cougar 328QBS
B&W Companion hitch
Cougarfamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 06:57 PM   #4
fla-gypsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Florida
Posts: 1,241
I long for the day when all of the makers offer a smaller diesel option with similar numbers for the 3/4 ton market. I would be very interested in a 500 ft lb diesel that could squeeze some real fuel mileage. I have no need for or interest in a 800 ft lb behemoth that barely does better than my gasser on fuel.
__________________
2006 Keystone Hornet 29RLS (The Cracker Cabana)
2009 F-250 SuperDuty CC 6.8L/4.10 (The Black Pearl)
fla-gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
mobile42
Senior Member
 
mobile42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 121
Boy do I agree with you Fla-Gypsy!
__________________
2011 Keystone Cougar 327RES, Winegard RoadTrip MiniMax Automatic Stationary Satellite
2014 Dodge Ram MegaCab 2500 4x4, SWB, 6.7 CTD, Timbrens
2012 Dodge Citadel Hemi
4000 Watt Champion Generator

2007 Keystone Sprinter 264BHS TT
2005 Flagstaff Forest River TT
mobile42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:27 AM   #6
BeerCan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 65
That 5L Cummins seems overly large for the 1/2 ton segment. I think it will get mindshare in the beginning but MPG realities may stifle its growth. I just think it is to much engine for a 1/2 ton in this day and age of high fuel prices.

Now if it goes in a 3/4 ton
BeerCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:44 AM   #7
hankpage
Site Team
 
hankpage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
Beer Can, I don't see the smaller V8 producing the torque required to tow in the heavier 3/4 ton truck. The 5.9L I6 filled that slot just fine until federal emissions standards made mpg drop. I am hopeful that this new engine will fit into many areas of the market that have been ignored in the past. It is about time. JM2˘, Hank
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
hankpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 01:02 PM   #8
BeerCan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankpage View Post
Beer Can, I don't see the smaller V8 producing the torque required to tow in the heavier 3/4 ton truck. The 5.9L I6 filled that slot just fine until federal emissions standards made mpg drop. I am hopeful that this new engine will fit into many areas of the market that have been ignored in the past. It is about time. JM2˘, Hank
I think if it geared right 550 will be more than enough.

The 5.9 was rated lower than this new engine right? I thought the 12v was in the low 400's and the 24v in the mid 400's to low 500's?
BeerCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 02:10 PM   #9
hankpage
Site Team
 
hankpage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
I owned a '94 12v 5.9l for 10 years and was very pleased with it's 160 hp and 400 ftlbs. It gave me 25-26 mpg hwy and 11 to 13 towing. When I replaced it in '04.5 with a 24v 5.9l 325hp 600ftlb I was not surprised that my hwy mpg dropped to 22-24 mpg. but amazed at the 14-16.8 towing the same trailer. The theory that "You have to feed the ponies" seems to go out the window when it comes to towing with a diesel. My opinion is that the lighter smaller V8 will not develop the torque low enough in the power range to be used in the heavier 3/4 ton market. When it comes to torque you can not compare an inline 6 to a V8 of the same size even in gas engines. (ask any short track stock car racer)
I don't want to start a "Mine's bigger than your's" argument ... this is my opinion based on my experience none of which with light duty engines ... all with medium and heavy duty diesels. I just don't feel that smaller lighter engines will hold up to the demands that folks put on their 3/4 and 1 tons. I too would love to see 30mpg+ in a 3/4 ton but in the real world I don't see it having tow ratings even close to todays 3/4s.
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
hankpage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
My 99 Superduty 7.3L turbodiesel was rated at 235HP/500ftlb torque. Granted it was a "big engine" compared to the smaller Cummins that Nissan is considering. The Dodge V6 diesel scheduled for the RAM 1500 is rated close to where my superduty was rated in HP/torque. (240 HP/420FtLb torque).

I would think (might be waaaaay wrong) that if Cummins is putting a turbo on it and getting 500 ftlb of torque that the HP rating should be somewhere close to what I got with the superduty. If so, then the towing performance "ought to be" pretty darned close too. That being said, I was very pleased with the towing capability of my superduty. It pulled a 34' Holiday Rambler travel trailer weighing about 8600 lbs (wet) with no difficulty. I'd think that a similar rated "smaller Cummins" should get pretty close to the same performance capability whether it's in a half ton or a 3/4 ton chassis. Maybe Nissan is considering a "super heavy duty half ton" ????
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 05:11 PM   #11
SAD
Permanent User Ban
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bartlesville, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougarfamily View Post
Wonder if this also means that they will bring out a 3/4 ton truck? Would give heavier duty towers another option.
All we can do is speculate at this point.

I personally doubt they would enter into the 3/4 ton market with it. The market is now filled with 400/800 motors. It simply couldn't be competitive.

My suspicion is its for fuel economy or light duty fleets. Just a guess though.
SAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 02:52 AM   #12
davidjsimons
Senior Member
 
davidjsimons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 865
5.0 V-8 Cummins

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
My 99 Superduty 7.3L turbodiesel was rated at 235HP/500ftlb torque. Granted it was a "big engine" compared to the smaller Cummins that Nissan is considering. The Dodge V6 diesel scheduled for the RAM 1500 is rated close to where my superduty was rated in HP/torque. (240 HP/420FtLb torque).

I would think (might be waaaaay wrong) that if Cummins is putting a turbo on it and getting 500 ftlb of torque that the HP rating should be somewhere close to what I got with the superduty. If so, then the towing performance "ought to be" pretty darned close too. That being said, I was very pleased with the towing capability of my superduty. It pulled a 34' Holiday Rambler travel trailer weighing about 8600 lbs (wet) with no difficulty. I'd think that a similar rated "smaller Cummins" should get pretty close to the same performance capability whether it's in a half ton or a 3/4 ton chassis. Maybe Nissan is considering a "super heavy duty half ton" ????
A lot of your assumptions are correct indeed if the rpm's for the torque output is similar. Of course the lower the rpm's the better for towing. The biggest drawback for low-end torque will rest in the stroke of the small V-8 configuration. This engine will be better suited for fuel mileage rather than massive towing capabilities. Just as a reference and a reminder, my 1990 W-250 Dodge with its Cummins in line six is only 160 hp and 400 lb ft of torque, but it gets the 400 at 1600 rpm's, but you have to consider the length of the stroke in that engine. In its day, that truck was considered capable of moving mountains. Actually, I did pull a K-100 Kenworth with a prefabricated house on the trailer out of a ditch on my way home with it one day. I love what has become of the light duty truck market in the past 25 years. At any rate, there is a place in the market for such an offering and I'm glad to see Ram and Nissan offering models to the pickup buying public.


2013 Cougar 28 RBS
2012 Ram 3500 Dually
6.7 Cummins H.O.
4.10 rears.
davidjsimons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 06:01 AM   #13
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
One thing that hasn't been "figured into" the new Cummins application is the transmission. In older trucks, there were usually 3 speed transmissios, sometimes with an overdrive, sometimes not. New 6 and 8 speed transmission can easily be geared to get the engine to its "torque curve max" almost before the wheels start turning. That was almost impossible to do on older diesels. Keeping the engine is its power band was hard to do and, as you say, David, producing the maximum torque at low RPM is important in that application. Today, producing the maximum torque, even in an engine that doesn't start producing it until 1800-2200 RPM can be managed through the turbo and transmission.

I see great applications for an engine this size not only for fuel economy in lighter trucks but also for "light/medium towing" in applications where 450HP and 800 FtLb of torque really aren't required, but is the only option other than a gas engine. An 8 speed transmission could easily be adapted to provide overdrive and "super overdrive" gearing for economy and a "tow/haul" lockkout of that feature to provide "high torque performance" at towing speeds

Mercedes/Sprinter are already producing a diesel chassis for motorhome builders with a 3L V-6 diesel that hauls a GVW of 15,000 lbs pretty easily. Its off the line performance (in its stock form) is brisker than the 450 HP/800 ftlb torque "full size motorhomes. In its weight range, theres a pretty impressive performance capability to "rival" the performance of bigger engines (in their weight category).

Granted, a 5.0L Cummins will never compete "head to head" with the "big power producers" but for some buyers, it would fit their need perfectly. Honestly, it all depends on how many buyers the manufacturer thinks he can lure to their market offerings and how Nissan (and Dodge) engineer the truck driveline and for what purpose they market it. The capability is there, now it's just a matter of "IF" it remains on the wish list or if one of the manufacturers produces it.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.