Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-07-2020, 12:02 PM   #21
Gegrad
Senior Member
 
Gegrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Monroeville
Posts: 1,548
Awesome Danny, glad to hear it towed well for you... as for the mpg, well, I usually got about 7-8 mpg from my 5.3L Chevy 1/2 ton, so getting the exact same mileage pulling a MUCH larger trailer should actually be fairly satisfying. I personally think you should be fine.
__________________
2014 Bullet Premier 29bh in Charocal
2019 Ram 2500 HD 4x4, CC, 6.4L
2011 Passport 2510RB (Sold)
Gegrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 07:12 PM   #22
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
Welcome to the 5th wheel club. Glad it toes well with the new truck.
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 08:57 AM   #23
pdaniel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sandy
Posts: 191
I am on RV number 6, the past RVs being tongue pulls and one truck camper. For years I towed with an F-250 with a gas engine and metal to metal transmission with 4:10 rear end. I bought my first diesel in 2001, a Ram 2500 then a 2002 Ram-same power train (had to get out of a lease). Big power back then-245 HP and 450 lb-ft of torque. Bad to the bone. Then wife and I bought a larger trailer, a Cougar X-lite 30RLI. Not so light for the old 2002 Ram. Struggled on any mountain road in Utah and Colorado, so, a 2016 Ram 3500 was obtained. HO Cummins, Aisin transmission, short box mega-cab with factory 5th wheel prep. Towed that Cougar through Utah and Colorado and never missed a beat.
We since defected to the dark side (some of you may think so) and bought a Grand Design Solitude 310GK fifth wheel. Dwarfs the old Cougar weight-wise. But, the Ram pulls the rig with no problems-aside from a little loss in fuel economy and DEF usage increased some.

Bottom line is I would never consider a gasser again considering where I live and where we visit. That gasser loses 10% of available HP for every 1000 foot gain in elevation. So, starting at 5000 feet where I live I lose 50 HP where a turbocharged diesel loses no HP until about 8000 feet elevation.

That is my story with trucks. Yes, diesels are more costly to maintain in some respects but it is a choice that one needs to make.
pdaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 09:02 AM   #24
goducks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdaniel View Post
I am on RV number 6, the past RVs being tongue pulls and one truck camper. For years I towed with an F-250 with a gas engine and metal to metal transmission with 4:10 rear end. I bought my first diesel in 2001, a Ram 2500 then a 2002 Ram-same power train (had to get out of a lease). Big power back then-245 HP and 450 lb-ft of torque. Bad to the bone. Then wife and I bought a larger trailer, a Cougar X-lite 30RLI. Not so light for the old 2002 Ram. Struggled on any mountain road in Utah and Colorado, so, a 2016 Ram 3500 was obtained. HO Cummins, Aisin transmission, short box mega-cab with factory 5th wheel prep. Towed that Cougar through Utah and Colorado and never missed a beat.
We since defected to the dark side (some of you may think so) and bought a Grand Design Solitude 310GK fifth wheel. Dwarfs the old Cougar weight-wise. But, the Ram pulls the rig with no problems-aside from a little loss in fuel economy and DEF usage increased some.

Bottom line is I would never consider a gasser again considering where I live and where we visit. That gasser loses 10% of available HP for every 1000 foot gain in elevation. So, starting at 5000 feet where I live I lose 50 HP where a turbocharged diesel loses no HP until about 8000 feet elevation.

That is my story with trucks. Yes, diesels are more costly to maintain in some respects but it is a choice that one needs to make.
Gassers only lose 3% power per 1000' of El change.

https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/n...r-air-density/
goducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 09:37 AM   #25
pdaniel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sandy
Posts: 191
The key words are "as a general rule". In my past employment we used 10% as our HP based on the best information at that time.
In doing quick research the loss, depending on the source, will range from 3 percent and up.

But, for the sake of argument 3percent is valid and those normally aspirated gas engines still lose HP, a loss I can't afford.
pdaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 11:02 AM   #26
Halcyon
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Elizabeth
Posts: 67
Gas v diesel in Colorado

Bought a used 2005 2500 6.0 Chevy to pull my 2017 Sprinter 5er ( 9,000 unloaded, max 10,600) around Colorado. Starting at 7,000 feet where we lived , pulling over numerous 8k to 11k passes, I became deaf from the noise, scared going downhill with the brakes, and dissatisfied with the 8.2 mpg.
Got a 2017 2500 duramax, 3.73 rear, long bed. Holey Pete, what a difference! Pulling up the passes like nothing was even behind me, down them so peaceful, due to the exhaust brake as well as the tranny downshifting itself. 11.3 mpg overall in 17,000 miles pulling. The rig tracks better in the wind and around semis than my minivan. If you are going to pull at altitude, you just cannot beat the diesel.
Halcyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 03:12 AM   #27
Jnich17
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Thomasville
Posts: 39
Pulling with Duramax 2500

It seems to me that the Ram diesels are by far superior to Gm diesels listening to friends that have Rams. I own a 2015 2500 Duramax and pull an Avalanche 375RD 5vr that has a GVW of 13,800 lbs. So far I have no complaints. I was worried at first about the hitch weight of 2460 lbs being too close to 2500's max of 2600 lbs. It pulls easy and with hardly any sag. Breaking is great, especially with engine break engaged. So far according to computer my towing MPG is 11.5 to 12 MPG. Cannot complain about that. I'm sure a 3500 would pull better, but if I were a cross country traveler I would definitely look at the Ram 3500 diesel. Everyday travel with Duramax gets me 16 mpg around town and 20 mpg hwy. The High Country pkg is really quiet and smooth.
__________________
2021 Keystone Avalanche 382FL
2015 Chevy 2500 Duramax High Country
Devco Recon 5th to Gooseball Hitch
Airlift Bags
Jnich17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 04:02 AM   #28
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,308
"It seems to me that the Ram diesels are by far superior to Gm diesels listening to friends that have Rams."
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.... (Larry would like that one)
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 09:10 AM   #29
mikz86ta
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Davie
Posts: 331
Tallahassee is where I am from. Glad you found your truck you wanted in the package. Hope if you got it from Tallahassee DCJ, you didn't get cornholed. They like to lie and add stuff and not be honest about rebates. I called them out and they got mad at me. Ended up in Georgia buying my Ram 1500 at an awesome dealer there.

Back to the issue at hand, sounds like you really should got a diesel for the new 5er. The only way to keep a gas is same drive configuration but a different cab/ trim level. Unfortunately plain Jane regular cab long beds are gonna tow more
mikz86ta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 06:31 PM   #30
Canadian Len
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 10
I pull my Cougar 367FLS with a 2011 GMC 3500HD with the Duramax. Pulls it absolutely beautifully through the passes. Just came back from Palm
Springs, CA and averaged 14 mpg.
Canadian Len is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 06:34 PM   #31
Gegrad
Senior Member
 
Gegrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Monroeville
Posts: 1,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post
Bought a used 2005 2500 6.0 Chevy to pull my 2017 Sprinter 5er ( 9,000 unloaded, max 10,600) around Colorado. Starting at 7,000 feet where we lived , pulling over numerous 8k to 11k passes, I became deaf from the noise, scared going downhill with the brakes, and dissatisfied with the 8.2 mpg.
Got a 2017 2500 duramax, 3.73 rear, long bed. Holey Pete, what a difference! Pulling up the passes like nothing was even behind me, down them so peaceful, due to the exhaust brake as well as the tranny downshifting itself. 11.3 mpg overall in 17,000 miles pulling. The rig tracks better in the wind and around semis than my minivan. If you are going to pull at altitude, you just cannot beat the diesel.
To be completely fair, the gasser was at least 12 years old (or older?) vs towing with a brand new truck. That huge difference in age and vehicle condition would by itself make a huge difference in your experience...
__________________
2014 Bullet Premier 29bh in Charocal
2019 Ram 2500 HD 4x4, CC, 6.4L
2011 Passport 2510RB (Sold)
Gegrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 08:47 PM   #32
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikz86ta View Post
Tallahassee is where I am from. Glad you found your truck you wanted in the package. Hope if you got it from Tallahassee DCJ, you didn't get cornholed. They like to lie and add stuff and not be honest about rebates. I called them out and they got mad at me. Ended up in Georgia buying my Ram 1500 at an awesome dealer there.

Back to the issue at hand, sounds like you really should got a diesel for the new 5er. The only way to keep a gas is same drive configuration but a different cab/ trim level. Unfortunately plain Jane regular cab long beds are gonna tow more

I did buy from Tallahassee DCJ. I will only say; STAY AWAY, Sales guy was great but their direction, IMO, is to take you as a dealership. I've shared my views with the owner.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 03:42 AM   #33
ronheater70
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Greensboro
Posts: 129
When I bought our 2016 2500 6.4 Hemi New, it was perfect for us, we were towing about 7K and it did that real well. I didn't really notice the horribly flawed transmission gearing. When we moved up to a camper weighing aboout 9.5-10K loaded I really started seeing it's short comings. Scream it's guts out in first then fall on it's face in second. Downshifts from 4th to 2nd skipping 3rd all together.. 5k rpms in 2nd gear at nearly 70 MPH. I ask you, who needs a Heavy duty truck with a transmission geared so that it will run 70 MPH in second gear. That Gap between fist and second was horrible when starting on a hill.

But with all of that I always felt that engine was a Great performer if only it had a better tranny in it. That 8 speed seems to have really done the trick and turned The Ram 6.4 HD truck from a below average pony to a thorughbred. All it took was getting that transmission right. I am glad its working out good, I always figured one would once they got that transmission right. That 8 speed sounds about perfect.
__________________
2019 369BHS
Towed with 2018 Ram 3500 Cummins LB CC 4x4 G56
ronheater70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 08:16 AM   #34
goducks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronheater70 View Post
When I bought our 2016 2500 6.4 Hemi New, it was perfect for us, we were towing about 7K and it did that real well. I didn't really notice the horribly flawed transmission gearing. When we moved up to a camper weighing aboout 9.5-10K loaded I really started seeing it's short comings. Scream it's guts out in first then fall on it's face in second. Downshifts from 4th to 2nd skipping 3rd all together.. 5k rpms in 2nd gear at nearly 70 MPH. I ask you, who needs a Heavy duty truck with a transmission geared so that it will run 70 MPH in second gear. That Gap between fist and second was horrible when starting on a hill.

But with all of that I always felt that engine was a Great performer if only it had a better tranny in it. That 8 speed seems to have really done the trick and turned The Ram 6.4 HD truck from a below average pony to a thorughbred. All it took was getting that transmission right. I am glad its working out good, I always figured one would once they got that transmission right. That 8 speed sounds about perfect.
Why are you doing 70 mph in 2nd? I tow a 9500 lb TT and have never had any experience like that. I can't imagine the need to floor it to get to 70 mph.
goducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 08:30 AM   #35
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronheater70 View Post
When I bought our 2016 2500 6.4 Hemi New, it was perfect for us, we were towing about 7K and it did that real well. I didn't really notice the horribly flawed transmission gearing. When we moved up to a camper weighing aboout 9.5-10K loaded I really started seeing it's short comings. Scream it's guts out in first then fall on it's face in second. Downshifts from 4th to 2nd skipping 3rd all together.. 5k rpms in 2nd gear at nearly 70 MPH. I ask you, who needs a Heavy duty truck with a transmission geared so that it will run 70 MPH in second gear. That Gap between fist and second was horrible when starting on a hill.

But with all of that I always felt that engine was a Great performer if only it had a better tranny in it. That 8 speed seems to have really done the trick and turned The Ram 6.4 HD truck from a below average pony to a thorughbred. All it took was getting that transmission right. I am glad its working out good, I always figured one would once they got that transmission right. That 8 speed sounds about perfect.

That 1-2 jump in the 6 speed was its weakness IMO. I pulled almost 9500 with mine and it was really noticeable trying to get up to speed and merge into traffic. The 8 speed has eliminated that and is much more enjoyable to drive. I've pulled the new trailer (approx. 11,500 empty) and it handles it pretty well.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2020, 08:29 AM   #36
ronheater70
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Greensboro
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
That 1-2 jump in the 6 speed was its weakness IMO. I pulled almost 9500 with mine and it was really noticeable trying to get up to speed and merge into traffic. The 8 speed has eliminated that and is much more enjoyable to drive. I've pulled the new trailer (approx. 11,500 empty) and it handles it pretty well.
Yes for many places it wasnt as big of a deal, but in some places coming from a dead stop into an uphill ramp to merge into 70 MPH traffic it was nerve racking.. Scream in first, hit second, lose it, back to first and pray as you merge.

I hav read good things about that 8 speed though, Many folks really enjoying it. Thats a great motor, it just needed some proper tranny to get it to it's full potential.
__________________
2019 369BHS
Towed with 2018 Ram 3500 Cummins LB CC 4x4 G56
ronheater70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2020, 08:36 AM   #37
mtofell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by goducks View Post
Why are you doing 70 mph in 2nd? I tow a 9500 lb TT and have never had any experience like that. I can't imagine the need to floor it to get to 70 mph.
I don't know if I've hit 70 in 2nd but have been close. 3.73 gears probably turning about 5500 RPM at 65-70. My 5th weighs around 11.5K and I pretty regularly have to pull in 2nd up a grade on the interstate to maintain speed. For some reason, the tranny really avoids 3rd when towing whether going up or down in gears. All this talk of the 8spd is making it really hard to resist buying a new truck.
mtofell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2020, 09:02 AM   #38
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtofell View Post
I don't know if I've hit 70 in 2nd but have been close. 3.73 gears probably turning about 5500 RPM at 65-70. My 5th weighs around 11.5K and I pretty regularly have to pull in 2nd up a grade on the interstate to maintain speed. For some reason, the tranny really avoids 3rd when towing whether going up or down in gears. All this talk of the 8spd is making it really hard to resist buying a new truck.

Go for that new truck with the 8 speed!! When doing it go to the trouble of finding one with the 4.10 axle; you will be really surprised at the difference, and very happy.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2020, 08:29 AM   #39
mtofell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Go for that new truck with the 8 speed!! When doing it go to the trouble of finding one with the 4.10 axle; you will be really surprised at the difference, and very happy.
Yeah.... I suppose it's just money If/when I do it I'll likely order from Dennis Dillon and would definitely go for the 4.10 gears. Current truck is all paid off and has a Lifetime Maxcare warranty so I'm trying my best to be frugal.
mtofell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2020, 01:41 PM   #40
x96mnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 502
Entire thread was a really good read. I am not surprised the 6.4 handled the add in load without much of a difference, also not surprised on the fuel milage. Towed 5000, 6000 and 10000 pounds with a 2011 5.7 Hemi and milage was no difference between any of them.

I tow about 13000pds loaded and went through the gas or diesel truck choice in November, bought a Diesel because I liked Diesel better and got a great price on a 2019 Duramax that cost me the same as a gas in the other brands. I am a Ram guy but the GMC was 12k cheaper than the Ram in a Diesel and if a I had of gone gas it would have been a Ford with the 7.3ltr but was priced similar to the GMC diesel.
__________________
2008 Jeep Liberty
RVision TS25s
2011 Ram 4x4 Hemi, Airlift 1000' e rated tires
2012 Sprinter 266
2014 RAM 6.7 Cummins Diesel
2015 Sandpiper 30IOK

All I care about is camping, maybe three people and beer!
x96mnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tow

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.