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Old 07-04-2017, 03:54 PM   #1
Southwestern Sportfishing
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2 Axle semi truck?

Anyone towing with a smaller 2 axle semi truck? What are the pros and cons? My 2004 F-350 is overloaded when towing my 2009 Raptor 361LEV (16,500 lbs) I would have to step up to a 550 to technically be legal which are pricey. Used semi trucks are 1/4 of the price of a used 550. Just a thought on using a semi....
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Old 07-04-2017, 04:00 PM   #2
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Would a F350 diesel dually still be overloaded for what you are towing? Might give you another option to consider.
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:26 PM   #3
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Sportfisherman, any of the big three duallys will be legal with any of the Raptors. You have been fed some bad information.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:30 AM   #4
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I just came back from camping over the holiday weekend and there was a few guys in the CG hauling Toy Haulers with 3500 DRW, you won't need a semi to haul the toy hauler
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:02 AM   #5
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pros, you definitely would not be overloaded, if it has a decent seat it can be more comfortable for long trips. Cons, maintenance costs (they are designed to go a long way, but when they break you will pay), fuel costs, registration costs, CDL required.

Like others have pointed out, I have trouble believing a dually is overloaded, but if it is a 450/4500 should be more than enough for a Raptor. Yours shows an advertised pin weight of 2745. I can see you getting into the 3500 lb range easily, but that should not require a 550. When I was transporting, there were a few RVs that required a bigger truck than a dually for the company to stay legal.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:11 AM   #6
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As a note: My '15 F350 DRW has a 6026 pound payload..
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:58 AM   #7
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Lots of 'Big 3' dually choices that make more sense then a HD over the road tractor with a modified suspension. If you prefer a Ford, you can move up to an F450 or as one of the seasonals at our summer CG, an F550. He is hauling a 43 plus foot Tesla toy hauler back and forth from Texas every year. But, with that said, there are some MD trucks by manufacturers such as Freightliner and Volvo with single axle setups that can be spec'd perfectly for virtually any RV 5er that don't have the massive size of a twin axle HD tractor that will prevent you from using many CGs, state, federal and private.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:01 AM   #8
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My wife and I are just starting out in the full time RV life, but after lots of research and trying to find a suitable truck to haul our 2012 Keystone Rapter 4014LEV that grosses at 18k lbs, I decided to go the HDT route and I couldn't be any happier with my decision. My last diesel truck was 1998.5 Dodge Ram 2500 long bed truck that I sold some years back, so when we bought our 5th wheel, I was shopping for a 2003-2006 3500 DRW truck to stay prior to the 2007 emission trucks and to find something in my budget. Much to my surprise, the 3500 trucks of that year generation maxed out at around 15,500lbs or so which is the range the OP is in. Knowing my trailer grossed at 18k lbs, this wasn't going to work for me as I wanted more than enough truck to tow my rig. It wasn't until much later years that to tow ratings on 3500's went way up, but so did the prices and the complications from adding DPF & DEF, etc. I then shopped 4500-5500 trucks or MDT trucks, but most of these were either expensive or had been worn out from being used commercially. I had been lurking on the HDT forum for awhile and decided to get serious about buying one of those. I lucked out and located a 2000 Volvo 610 (mid rise sleeper) singled short that had been owned by the same gentleman for the past 13 years.

My 2000 Volvo 610 has a Detroit Diesel 60 series with 435hp/1850lbs torque. It started life as a commercial truck, but came off the road in 2004 with 462k miles. The previous owner purchased the truck and converted it to single axle by moving the rear axle to the front position and shortening the frame and added a goose neck to haul his horse trailer around the Sierra's in Southern CA. He only put on 18k miles in 13 years of ownership, but was getting into his 70's and decided it was time to sell the truck. I was estatic to find a low mileage Gen 1 volvo with less than 500k original miles on it (most of these go 1 million miles before an overhaul) not to mention at a price that was less than many 10-12 year old 3500's with upwards of 200k on them. You get so much more truck for your money.

I flew to CA and drove the truck home to GA. Over the course of those 2k miles, I fell in love with the truck and how great it was to drive. I knew I had made the right choice, especially after towing my large 5th wheel with it, I'm so glad I'm not in a smaller truck! With my setup, my truck weighs around 15-16k by its self so it weighs close to what the 5th wheel will weigh fully loaded, unlike a 3500 where the trailer can weigh quite a bit more than the truck, so it's way less likely for me to have a case of the tail wagging the dog in less than ideal towing conditions or emergency manuvers. HDT trucks are built for driver comfort with air ride seats, cabs, & suspension, sleeper in the back, sometimes a fridge/microwave, lots of storage and best of all they carry 200-300gals of fuel so you don't have to stop to get fuel nearly as often. I can be choosy and find the cheap gas and not fill up in a state if it's expensive. The trucks have way more gears for climbing & decscending steep grades and a true 3 stage jake brake will out perform a singe exhaust brake any day. For those that don't want to shift gears, there have been semi automatics for years and Volvo's fully auto i-shift is considered top notch in these trucks!

Most people will say, but they are so much bigger. In reality, the HDT trucks are the same width as a 3500 dually is in the back, it's just that width all the way down the truck. The midrise sleeper on my truck is only 10'11" so I'm still a lot shorter than my 13'6" 5th wheel and even a full height condo sleeper is also around 13'6". My Volvo singled short is 184" wheel base which is only a few inches longer than a long bed dually, and best of all with my 50" wheel cut, I can turn sharper than any 2500-3500 truck could dream about. Can you make a u-turn on a 4 lane divided highway from a turn lane withoun running all up over the curb? That 50" wheel cut means I barely cross over into the 2nd lane. Driving the truck around bobtail is actually a lot easier than you would imagine and as long as I respect my height and little bit extra length, I'm good.

There's a lot of misinformation about towing with a semi and one of the most frequent bad info is you have to have a CDL. You only need a CDL if you are hauling commerce for payment which we are not doing. Most HDT owners get their truck registered as private trucks or RV's and have private not for hire on the side. This means depending on the state they can be driven with regular licenses or maybe a non commercial Class A equivalent license. In GA, anything over 26k lbs GWVR or towing over a 10lbs trailer requires a Class E non commercial license, so that would apply to even the latest pickups and large 5th wheels as they cross that threshold. TX has been doing the same thing requiring Class A DP's or large 5th wheels to get a higher class license which isn't a bad thing in my eyes. Also because we aren't hauling commercially, we don't have to stop at scales.

Another advantage of an HDT truck is depending on how you set it up, you can mount a nice bed on the back and carry anything from motorcycles to a smart car sideways or even full size cars. The smart cars are very popular to carry behind the cab on the HDT truck so you have a little car for errands. Since my truck is singled short, I don't have room for a smart car, but I do plan on carrying maybe a motorcycle or two or get a large drom box (storage box) to keep back there.

If you want more info on HDT's check out the Heavy Haulers RV resource guide - http://hhrvresource.com/node/18

Check out many of their HDT trucks - http://hhrvresource.com/member-trucks
And truck beds - http://hhrvresource.com/truckbeds

The Escapees forum has a very active HDT section also - http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?/forum/32-hdt/

This is my wife and I when I first brought our HDT home


And after her first ride in it, she was all smiles




This is my Volvo 610 and Raptor 4014LEV just yesterday. You can get a size reference of the HDT against the 42' 5th wheel.




Look at all that room and how high you sit


Lots of room in the back and I only have a single bunk sleeper. You can get a workstation in some of the setups with a dining room table back there like you would find in an RV


My HDT is registered as a motorhome in GA
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:39 AM   #9
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Excellent!! As an ex-OTR owner operator, I've driven more miles that I can remember in those Volvos. Sweet ride and setup. Enjoy the heck out of it.
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:21 AM   #10
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That's what I'm talking about...
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:00 PM   #11
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Great looking rig. No doubt the best towing option out there. Just curious, if your use of the 5th wheel are long trips with a lot of stops to sight see, what limitations do you have? Narrow roads, low clearances, parking, places that say "no semis", etc? Can't imagine driving the 19 miles up Pikes Peak for example!
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:25 PM   #12
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That's an awesome rig, but I was thinking more of a "Day Cab" semi. These can be had for $25,000 or less.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:50 PM   #13
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Great looking rig. No doubt the best towing option out there. Just curious, if your use of the 5th wheel are long trips with a lot of stops to sight see, what limitations do you have? Narrow roads, low clearances, parking, places that say "no semis", etc? Can't imagine driving the 19 miles up Pikes Peak for example!
Well, we are just getting started so we'll see how we adapt to this setup. I don't feel like the big truck is going to limit us any more than a standard pickup pulling the same size 5th wheel. Obviously the fairly large 5th wheel has it's limitations regardless of what you pull it with, but as for where I can take the big truck bob tail, other than height restrictions, I can go anywhere a long bed dually can go. We plan to use the big truck to run errands and get groceries if needed. I've already driven the truck around a lot bob tail that I'm very comfortable driving it. Now I'm not taking it through a drive through at the local fast food joint, but I can certainly find a place to park it. We are also avid motorcyclists (adventure and dual sport) so we'll be carrying motorcycles in the toy hauler and that's how we plan to get around to the places the truck can't go. Our whole purpose to go on the road is to go chase the good weather and go places we want to go explore on our motorcycles. We got tired of the 1-2 week motorcycle trips only to rush back home, so this is our way to go find places we want to visit and go explore all the good riding on and off road.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:55 PM   #14
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That's an awesome rig, but I was thinking more of a "Day Cab" semi. These can be had for $25,000 or less.
The day cab or even say a smaller regional truck like the Volvo 420 or 430 that only have a small sleeper behind the cab without the extra stuff certainly give you a smaller truck with a lower roof line that still has the advantages of a larger truck with better carrying capacity without the height restrictions. And yes, you can get those for great prices. However, I felt the midroof line gave us a nice jump in extra space without the going overkill on the condo height sleepers or extended sleepers. Everything is a trade off of course, it just depends on your needs.

Some people with the condo sleepers use their trucks as a 2nd RV for maybe 2-3 day trips where they might go somewhere they can't get their large 5th wheel, but still have the advantage of a bed, fridge, and microwave in the truck. That's something we might look into if we set the truck up to carry two motorcycles on the bed so we can take the truck to a more remote location to stay for a day or two.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:31 AM   #15
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Unless you have multiple large trailers to pull, why wouldn't you just buy a Motorhome at this point?

To invest in a HDT for the sole purpose of pulling the trailer seems like a wash to owning a Motorhome. Still have to store both HDT and trailer, can only be used during RV outings, etc. With a normal light or medium duty truck, at least you can still use the rig as a daily or weekend driver and get some return on that investment.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:01 AM   #16
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I can't see that HDT as a sight seeing vehicle such as at the 'Big 5' in Utah or the Pike's Peak road or San Fransico's Lombard St. Then there is all that fun trying to park at the local super market or even parallel park at a restaurant in any city of size for a night out. Even my 172" wheel base CCLB can be a PITA with a huge turning radius too short and narrow parking lot spaces with too little room between rows. We often get our exercise walking from the North Forty area. Then there is the cost of ownership - and I don't mean fuel but license, insurance, normal maintenance, tires, the occasional impossible to obtain parts in West Overshoe on a Saturday afternoon. Oh and some (many?) states like NY, you will need a different driver's license classification and competancy test if you exceed 26,000 pounds combined weight, truck and towed load.

But - to each his own. OP, due diligence, a wallet thickness check and a few hours is the only way to reason this out FOR YOUR needs. Let us know what you decide.
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:22 AM   #17
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I could be wrong, but I believe you follow the license rules from your home state. If you live in Kentucky and have a standard KY drivers license and then drive into NY, you still carry the rules you had in KY. You would not need to follow the NY license rules.
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:53 AM   #18
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I could be wrong, but I believe you follow the license rules from your home state. If you live in Kentucky and have a standard KY drivers license and then drive into NY, you still carry the rules you had in KY. You would not need to follow the NY license rules.
You are correct, and if the OP does go the HDT route, he'll be able to use his regular license and register it as an RV, just have to put [not for hire, personal use] on the side. If I were to go that route, I'd get an auto though, no need to get a manual for towing a fiver.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:44 AM   #19
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Who was talking about KY? Not me. I stated NY regs while the OP lives in California with even more ridiculous driving rules and regulations. Not for hire printed on the side of a truck/trailer over 26 K pounds, registered in NY and driven by a NY licensed operator wont do a thing for you without the correct license endorsement. You will still be required to stop at a NY trooper check points with a HDT and be subject to vehicle inspection and license check. That's my state's apples. If you feel the need to discuss some other state's oranges - go for it.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:05 AM   #20
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Unless you have multiple large trailers to pull, why wouldn't you just buy a Motorhome at this point?

To invest in a HDT for the sole purpose of pulling the trailer seems like a wash to owning a Motorhome. Still have to store both HDT and trailer, can only be used during RV outings, etc. With a normal light or medium duty truck, at least you can still use the rig as a daily or weekend driver and get some return on that investment.
If you aren't full time, yes that is a valid concern of what to do with an HDT and a 5th wheel and someone who is not full time or not traveling frequently with their 5th wheel, an HDT may not make sense. That is certainly something to take into consideration. However, the guy I bought my HDT from though only used it to haul a horse trailer around CA. He put 18k on it in 13 years. He started with a 3500 truck, but decided going up and down the Sierra's in CA was no fun in a 3500 and the HDT worked much better and it was worth it to him to keep it around just for that.

In our case we are going full time so the 5th wheel is our home, we absolutely needed to be able to carry a few motorcycles with us to ride, and the HDT made sense for us. We actually bounced back and forth between a motorhome and 5th wheel. In a motorhome, we liked the idea af being able to get up and move places easier and to already be in our home when we stopped for the night just for a quick stop, however we absolutely needed to take motorcycles along and that meant we would be limited to one of the very few Class A toyhaulers or we would be pulling an enclosed trailer with motorcycles in it and of course this meant no vehicle to drive around other than the bikes or the motortome. So either we had the bikes for errands and sight seeing or we had to drive the entire motorhome somewhere. If you ask me, that's more work than driving an HDT around.

Another problem we ran into is for motorhomes in our price range, we were looking at gas coaches with either the Ford V10 or Chevywork Horse chassis. Many of these Class A's had surprisingly little Cargo Carrying Capacity and were pretty much maxed out from the factory. I knew driving a gas engine up and down mountain passes out west being loaded down wasn't going to be fun. I really wanted a Diesel engine for that. We looked at a few Diesel coaches, but prices jumped up dramatically and we still wouldn't have a car to drive around.

In our case, that led us back to a Toy Hauler 5th wheel being pulled by a truck. I shopped 3500 trucks, but in the end the HDT made the most sense. Now many people carry a smart car on their HDT and that makes the ultimate small vehicle to travel around in for errands and sight seeing. If we weren't avid motorcyclists, than a smart car would have been something we would have looked into to carry on the HDT or in the Toy Hauler.

Everyones wants and needs are different, but an HDT isn't as cumbersome as it sounds.
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