Tongue Weight for truck just under need

[pwnickell]

Hi Everybody!

I have a questions about tongue weight. I have towed trailers before and I know about towing safety, sway and weight distribution at a lower level.

I own a 2014 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4x2 which has a max tongue weight of 1,010 lbs. Our 2028 Keystone Laredo has a tongue weight of 1,150.

We are not traveling with this trailer really at all. Pretty much just moving it from the dealership to where we will be parking it and living in it full-time. I understand I will probably get some dip on the hitch but I was curious what your opinion was. I am contemplating whether or not I should buy a Reese Weight Distribution Hitch for essentially one short trip for being shy 140 lbs.

Eager to hear your thoughts.

-Patrick

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by pwnickell

Hi Everybody!

I have a questions about tongue weight. I have towed trailers before and I know about towing safety, sway and weight distribution at a lower level.

I own a 2014 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4x2 which has a max tongue weight of 1,010 lbs. Our 2028 Keystone Laredo has a tongue weight of 1,150.

We are not traveling with this trailer really at all. Pretty much just moving it from the dealership to where we will be parking it and living in it full-time. I understand I will probably get some dip on the hitch but I was curious what your opinion was. I am contemplating whether or not I should buy a Reese Weight Distribution Hitch for essentially one short trip for being shy 140 lbs.

Eager to hear your thoughts.

-Patrick

I would keep it light (no water) and fill the propane bottles after parking it. For 140# and a one-time short trip I wouldn't spend the money on a WD hitch.

[Tbos]

I'd consider getting the dealer to move it for you. If you will never move it why bother buying a hitch. I don't know if the hitch limit you stated is with or without WDH. If it is with then you are over payload and could be putting yourself in a situation where you could be liable if something happened on that short trip. If on the other hand it is before WDH then I suggest you buy a WDH hitch if you insist on moving it yourself. If you will have to move in the future you will need the WDH and most likely a truck with a bigger capacity. In addition to possible legal issues you could damage your truck towing overloaded.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[pwnickell]

We aren't entirely sure where we are parking it. As a previous insurance adjuster I am well aware of my liability and I don't want to put anyone at risk. If I'm only 140# shy, what WD Hitch should I get?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by pwnickell

We aren't entirely sure where we are parking it. As a previous insurance adjuster I am well aware of my liability and I don't want to put anyone at risk. If I'm only 140# shy, what WD Hitch should I get?

Given your previous occupation (insurance adjuster) it's interesting in the way you pose your question: "If I'm only 140# shy, what WD Hitch should I get?".

Reality is, you're not "140# shy" you're overloaded by 140#, possibly more depending on whether your truck receiver is rated at 500/5000 without a WD hitch and 1015/10000 with a WD hitch. If this rating is accurate, without WD you're critically overloaded both in tongue weight AND trailer maximum, with WD you're still overloaded, but by 140 pounds. In either scenario, you're overloaded, not "shy"...

[pwnickell]

The trailer weight is just under 8,500 lbs and I'm rated to tow 10,100 lbs according to my truck manual.

Also given my previous occupation I feel compelled to share that stupidity is a covered loss It actually is.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by pwnickell

The trailer weight is just under 8,500 lbs and I'm rated to tow 10,100 lbs according to my truck manual.

Also given my previous occupation I feel compelled to share that stupidity is a covered loss It actually is.

What your truck is "rated" to tow by the manual is meaningless. The other numbers that others have tried to share are those that determine what you can/cannot tow.

Given your last statement I'm not sure if it warrants further explanation by members since it seems you are happy with being a little "shy" (overloaded) on weight and feel that stupidity would be covered by insurance. On the other hand, I would encourage you to think how a judge or jury would view "stupidity" ie; negligence in a courtroom. I don't think the stupidity coverage in the insurance policy will help you there.....just saying.

Note: I would bet that an 8500 lb. trailer on a Tundra is going to put you over one or more weight factors. For a short trip, well, it's a gamble and it all depends on how you feel about gambling...."do you feel lucky?" As for me, I don't gamble at all.

[Tbos]

I just looked at the specs for your truck. They don't say if the hitch is supposed to be a WDH or not. It just says MAXIMUM. Find out where you're going to park it and get someone else with a truck that is rated to tow it take it there for you.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[ctbruce]

I would:
1. Find a buddy with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck that would help you out.
2. Figure out where you are going to park it.
3. Buy a case of his/her favorite beer (for after, not before!)
4. Have it transported to your spot.
5. Give him/her the beer and gas money, problem solved.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[dcg9381]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I would encourage you to think how a judge or jury would view "stupidity" ie; negligence in a courtroom. I don't think the stupidity coverage in the insurance policy will help you there.....just saying.

I've sat on a few juries for traffic incidents. Stupidity definitely increases the settlement, but he's right, generally the lawyers are suing the insurance company. The OP is taking a risk.

If only insurance companies had a means to measure stupidity... :-)

I'm in the camp of "find a buddy with an F-250" for your short trip too.

Generally, I like to keep my trucks loaded below 75% of capacity... But that's just me.

[busterbrown]

If a "buddy" system does not work out, there is no need to spend extra $$$ on a Reese set up. An Eaz-lift WDH from Amazon is more than adequate to move your trailer on occasion. Or find a good deal in the local Craigslist market on one. The RV season is in full swing so many buying and selling opportunities.

An added benefit of owning one is that you won't be dependant on others when it comes time to move your trailer.

[notanlines]

Anything with 1200 pounds of tongue weight needs to have a WDH involved. Many people who you already know will have a hitch you might be able to borrow. For a short drive I'm not certain that it needs to be dialed in for a west coast trip, just get the weight off so there is good control. Now the part you won't like. You own a nice little truck and a nice medium sized trailer. The two don't mix. Borrow a friend's truck (and him/her) and a WDH and move the trailer. Your Tundra wasn't made to tow 38 feet.
By the way, welcome to the forum. A lot of good info here and lots of answers for your questions to come.

[buzzcop63]

Just a thought to add that with a heavy load on the rear of any truck makes the front lighter and thus less steering and or brakes. If part of the short drive includes freeway speeds this could cause Sway. One thing that heavier trucks with Diesel have is that they have weight in the front to counteract your hitch weight if not using a WDH hitch.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by dcg9381

I've sat on a few juries for traffic incidents. Stupidity definitely increases the settlement, but he's right, generally the lawyers are suing the insurance company. The OP is taking a risk.

If only insurance companies had a means to measure stupidity... :-)

I'm in the camp of "find a buddy with an F-250" for your short trip too.

Generally, I like to keep my trucks loaded below 75% of capacity... But that's just me.

I agree on the part about increasing the settlement with the insurance company. I was thinking more along the lines of criminal charges due to negligence or other mitigating factor. Insurance won't come into play there.

Other than that, I'm thinking getting someone with a truck big enough to haul it might be the answer. The truck is too small to pull that trailer for any distance and the hitch will be overweight no matter what at the very least.

[pwnickell]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I agree on the part about increasing the settlement with the insurance company. I was thinking more along the lines of criminal charges due to negligence or other mitigating factor. Insurance won't come into play there.

Other than that, I'm thinking getting someone with a truck big enough to haul it might be the answer. The truck is too small to pull that trailer for any distance and the hitch will be overweight no matter what at the very least.

I wasn't going to respond initially but now I feel compelled to. This I know definitively; criminal charges would only stem from "gross negligence." Versus explaining it here you can google it. Being 140# over tongue wait is light years away from gross negligence. Also insurance would indeed come into play since there is liability and an insured person involved.

My "stupidity" comment seems to have sent some down a path that isn't friendly and is counter productive. Let's steer (pun super intended) the conversation back on topic.

I think I'll just have the dealership deliver the trailer and if I haul it anywhere (which I don't plan on doing more than once from it's temporary spot to it's new spot) I'll buy a WDH and play it safe.

Thank you all for all the feedback and advice!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by pwnickell

I wasn't going to respond initially but now I feel compelled to. This I know definitively; criminal charges would only stem from "gross negligence." Versus explaining it here you can google it. Being 140# over tongue wait is light years away from gross negligence. Also insurance would indeed come into play since there is liability and an insured person involved.

My "stupidity" comment seems to have sent some down a path that isn't friendly and is counter productive. Let's steer (pun super intended) the conversation back on topic.

I think I'll just have the dealership deliver the trailer and if I haul it anywhere (which I don't plan on doing more than once from it's temporary spot to it's new spot) I'll buy a WDH and play it safe.

Thank you all for all the feedback and advice!

I'm sorry if anything I said offended you or seemed unfriendly. I was following up on your comments and did not mean them to be offensive or unfriendly. Yes, 140 lbs. over on the hitch isn't "gross" negligence, but I suspect you will be overweight in other areas as well and there is no telling what that situation could cause your vehicle to do.... so then we get back to the "gambling" aspect. Example: when the tail (trailer) starts wagging the dog and you can't control the vehicle, then you end up in the oncoming lane trying to get it under control, then you hit a car head on and kill 4 people.....I think negligence will be the least of a persons' worries. Just food for thought and an effort to illustrate what I'm talking about.

And as a note for clarification, adding the WDH will not take any weight off the hitch; it will still be overweight; it will just re-distribute some of the weight. So adding the WDH won't be "playing it safe", it will just be an effort to minimize the dangers of being overweight. Again, not trying to be offensive, just trying to clarify.

[Ken / Claudia]

In 2004, I purchased a 28ft TT to go on my extra beach lot. I had the F350 but, no WHD at the time. The dealer said he would haul it the 80 miles without charge.
In this case I would do #1 have dealer delivery it unless they charge 100s. #2 ask if the dealer has a used WHD to barrow. #3 ask a friend to move it or barrow their WHD and pay them.

[SAABDOCTOR]

I WOULD GO WITH THE FIND a buddy with the right truck the life you save could be my family.

[zuley]

To add one further comment. Don't know if it has been addressed previous. You mentioned in an earlier post that your truck has a tongue weight max of a thousand pounds and change. I suspect that weight listed is "with using a WDH", otherwise your hitch, weight without a WDH, I suspect is probably much less. Without looking as specifics I know my Ram is listed in the same fashion.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by zuley

To add one further comment. Don't know if it has been addressed previous. You mentioned in an earlier post that your truck has a tongue weight max of a thousand pounds and change. I suspect that weight listed is "with using a WDH", otherwise your hitch, weight without a WDH, I suspect is probably much less. Without looking as specifics I know my Ram is listed in the same fashion.

zuley,

Thanks for bringing this up again. I commented on the receiver weight ratings in post #5 and it appears that it either "flew under the radar" or was "over the head of..." and was ignored. Whatever the cause, it's a critical element in towing and my guess (similar to yours) is that without a WD hitch, the OP would be hitching to more than two times the rating of his tow vehicle receiver. Not only a "danger" but in my opinion, that kind of overweight condition would be "gross negligence". There's a lot of difference in being 140 pounds over with a WD and being 640 pounds over the maximum 500 pound tongue weight of the receiver rating and with an 8000 pound trailer, 3000 pounds over the maximum trailer weight without one.

ADDED: The following is on page 162 of the 2014 Tundra Owner's Manual:
"● If the gross trailer weight is over the unbraked TWR, trailer service brakes are required.
● If the gross trailer weight is over 2000 lb. (907 kg), a sway control device with sufficient capacity is required.
● If the gross trailer weight is over 5000 lb. (2268 kg), a weight distributing hitch with sufficient capacity is required."

Additionally, on that same page:
"● The gross trailer weight must never exceed the TWR described in the table. (P. 162)
● The gross combination weight must never exceed the GCWR described in the table. (P. 162)
● The gross vehicle weight must never exceed the GVWR indicated on the Certification Label.
● The gross axle weight on each axle must never exceed the GAWR indicated on the Certification Label."

So, it seems that Toyota is saying "don't do it". The final decision, however, does rest with the OP. I hope he makes the correct decisions for his own safety and for those who share the roads with him and his Tundra.