A german camper needs a little help

[Tac]

I have spoken to Etrailer.com. He had a explanation for me. The actual factory installed TBC acts just like the way i need. Potentiometer on the brakepedal and the TBC is an amplifier curuit to adjust the brakecharacteristics, but its brakepedal regulated.

If you order a trailer tow group, you will get a factory installed TBC since
years. Ford built in a TBC on F250 and above as a standardoption since 2010, i guess.
The problem is the way, how the TBC act.
The first TBC's act like a switch, brake on or brake off. The driver set a brakepower on the TBC and this brakepower is just set on or off, like the brakelights, just on or off. The brakepower on the trailer is not regulated. Always the same brakepower, doesn't matter how strong you brake.
The aftermarket TBC's are centrifugalsensors which don't have a connection to the brakepedal. If you brake, the centrifugal force sets the Brakepower on the trailer. If you brake harder, you get more force and so you get more brakepower on the trailer.

Only the factory installed TBC's act as a real controler with vehicleinformation.
I hope that informations are right.

So i "just" need to buy new hubs, discbrakeconversion, tubing and EoH-Actuator and i get the brake i need on the trailer.
240$ for Hubs, 650$ for 13" discbrakes with calipers, 650$ for the EoH-Actuator, Tubing 150$. ~1700$ for EoH Brakes.
I would also need new hubs for the 17.5" Rims, because we can't buy 235/80R16 Tires with a Loadindex of 3042lbs here in germany.
900$ for rims and 1000$ for tires.
1700$ is nothing against the 7000-8000$ for a german airbrakesystem.

So, the brakeproblem is hopely solved.
The wireproblem is also solved, i spoke to a shop 60miles away. I can use the installed wires, because the wirediameter is bigger than i need in cause of the higher american amperage.
The "germanisation" of the F250 with the needed 13pin wiring harness is about 3500$.

Nearly all problems are solved.
The next days i will sit down and do my financal maths and see what that all will cost together. But i think the figures will be a littlebit bigger than we first thought
We will see what is possible and what not.
Maybe we will wait for the transatlantic trading agreement. This will be maybe next or next-next year. Safes 22% customs. That would be nearly 24000$.

@Rgene7001
Of course it will be always a little bit more expensive and make a little bit more work to be unique. You decide to buy german vehicles instead of US vehicles.
My passat has the capacity to tow travel trailers up to 4400lbs and 165lbs on the ball. The german market is full of TT's with this weightlimit.
(We all use only rope-acting surge brakes for car-trailers, thats why we have the 7715lbs hardcap. And thats the reason why you can't buy a factory installed TBC on german vehicles and from germany imported vehicles like your ML's. And thats why we have a maximum legal GCWR of 15430lbs on all cars, if your car has 7715lbs GVWR and the trailer too.)
And of course i can go to the next dealer and buy a new or new-used TT today and have no problems. I have just to spend 40000-70000$ and drive home with a new TT. And have 15-20 feet livingspace.

If i roughly estimate the buy, import, custom and taxes and the conversion, the costs will be around 160000-180000$ for the hole combination.
But this is around the price which i have to pay only for a MB ML 350CDI. Without the TT. Cars to tow 7715lbs are extremly expensive. They are all luxury SUV's. A car can only two his own GVWR without a connected brake, thats a german law.
A compareable TV and TT combination would beat easily the 250000$, here in germany.

[Ken / Claudia]

Thats great, sounds like it is possible to get what you want and saving money by doing changes that are required. It is interesting about the stuff you have to change and limits on trucks/trailers in your country that we do not have. As you get the project going let us know.

[Tac]

Hi everybody.
My financal maths are done.

Its a "little bit" more expensive than we first thought. Hope you are sitting down.

F250 Lariat 4x4 SuperCab Longbox 6.2 V8: 52000$
Keystone Montana HC 343RL: 65000$
Brakeconversion: 2200$
17.5" Rims and Tires: 2000$
Shipping: 6000$
Customs duty: 28000$
Added value tax: 29500$
F250 german streetlegal: 3500$
Navigation conversion: 1500$
Fifth wheel german streetlegal: 1500$
230V/400V conversion with devices: 12000$
Sat & TV & BD: 6500$
300W solarcells & converter: 2000$
Tires for the combination: 3800$
Surveys, exceptional permissions and registration: 1500$
Total: 217000$

I think we will wait for the transatlantic trading agreement. To safe at least the 28000$ customs duty.
Or search for used TV and FW in really good conditions.

[jlb27537]

Originally Posted by Tac

Hi everybody.
My financal maths are done.

Its a "little bit" more expensive than we first thought. Hope you are sitting down.

F250 Lariat 4x4 SuperCab Longbox 6.2 V8: 52000$
Keystone Montana HC 343RL: 65000$
Brakeconversion: 2200$
17.5" Rims and Tires: 2000$
Shipping: 6000$
Customs duty: 28000$
Added value tax: 29500$
F250 german streetlegal: 3500$
Navigation conversion: 1500$
Fifth wheel german streetlegal: 1500$
230V/400V conversion with devices: 12000$
Sat & TV & BD: 6500$
300W solarcells & converter: 2000$
Tires for the combination: 3800$
Surveys, exceptional permissions and registration: 1500$
Total: 217000$

I think we will wait for the transatlantic trading agreement. To safe at least the 28000$ customs duty.
Or search for used TV and FW in really good conditions.

Hi TAC, Just some thoughts. You can buy a F250 for a lot less you have listed. Same for the HC, you are quoting list. Buy the HC from a dealer in Elkhart, Indiana. Have them take the trailer to Mor/ryde, also in Elkhart and they can do the conversion to disc brakes. Same for tires. The disc brake hubs will be 8 bolt, 6 1/2" and 17.5 wheels are a direct fit. The factory is only 20 miles from Elkhart so the OEM tires and wheels would be new so they would have trade in value.
http://www.morryde.com/aftermarket/r...brakes-49.html

The wiring on the RV is 50A/220vac. The input wire would be #6. 2 hot legs, 1 netural. The 4th wire is ground and usually #12. Here is a link to a wire conversion table. http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

As mentioned earlier, all appliances are 120vac/60cycle. A converter from your 50 cycle to US 60 cycle would be a option. Forget the F150 size truck. The HC when you get your stuff in it WILL weigh what the listed GVWR of the trailer is. The pin weight WILL be 22% of the GVWR. The weights on the web site and brochure are just wishful thinking.

Jim

[Tac]

Last days i were really busy, so please excuse my late answer.

Thanks for the tip with Moryde. I knew that Elkhart is a RV central in the USA, but that its is nearly the metropole for RV, i didn't.
I take a look on Google Streetview. Really impressiv.

BTW. What means "amish woodcrafting"? Is that a special quality?

The conversionkit Moryde offers is nearly the same, that Etrailer offert me.
And Dexter Axles is in Elkhart too, so if the axles are too short on GAWR, there would probably be a possibility for an upgrade.

For 16A here is everything over gauge 12 acceptpable, if the wire is a copper wire. If its aluminium, we need it one gauge higher. Do you know the gauge of the 110V wiring, too?

For a huge RV like the Fifth wheels, you need a 5 wire three-phase A.C. current. 3 phases @230V, 1 neutral and 1 ground.

One Phase 230V 16A is too short. Its nearly too short for a german TT with AC. 3600W inlet with a 2500W air conditioning leaves not much room for other devices. Thats why we use the battery-trick. If we need more power than the 3600W from the campingground, we take the additional out of the batteries and charge them later, when the power is not needed anymore, back.


The Cycles are not the problem. Allmost every device who runs on 60Hz runs on 50Hz also. If it has a electric motor in it, it just run a little bit slower.
A 230V to 120V inverter is cheap.
And the entertainment-system must be replaced because we are using a different TV standard here in the EU. Even the codes on dvd's are not compatible.

[outwest]

Originally Posted by Tac

BTW. What means "amish woodcrafting"? Is that a special quality?

The Amish are a people that still live the old ways. They are a traditionalist Christian group who do not use electricity, use horse and buggy, no tractors for plowing fields, etc. Amish crafted furniture normally means handcrafted with no power tools and with features such as tongue and groove corners, and solid wood without laminates. That being said, it's become a marketing gimmick for the RV industry. In "amish woodcrafted" RVs you'll find that very few manufacturers use tongue and groove corners, it's all stapled with electric or compressed air powered stapling gun, power tools are used rather than being hand planed and hand sanded, no manufacturers that i've seen use solid wood in RV, etc. (edit to add - some mfg do use a bit of solid wood for cabinet doors etc, but what I meant was all pieces being solid wood)

In german language it's Amische. The closest thing to Amish in Europe today are the Mennonites (Mennoniten).

[Tac]

Ah okay. Normaly it means classic craftsmanship.

I know who amish, mennonites etc are. No motorized machines and a old strong addiction to god. But absolutly good craftmans.

I just couldn't image what that means for RV building.
In the EU we build RV interior even in paperwork. No joke. Paper can be really though and its light.