Water hose heat - DIY?

[tundrwd]

We'll be going out this coming weekend (so need a quick answer), and it's finally going to hit just at freezing overnight.

I have a 2016 Keystone Bullet, with insulated (but I'm sure unheated), undercarriage, etc. So tanks, etc are "foam surrounded". Not too worried about tanks freezing.

However, I'm wondering about fresh water. I could put some water in the fresh water tank and use that, or could get some kind of "heat cord" to wrap around the fresh water hose, and the spigot.

At this point, I don't intend to go camping in freezing weather much, so don't want to go all out - just wondering what might be the better bet - put some water in the fresh water tank and turn the pump on (we've not even used the fresh water tank yet - just city connection), or get something to wrap around the hose and keep it heated (wondering about some roof/gutter cable that prevents ice damming).

Thoughts?

[hankaye]

tundrwd, Howdy;

Not much info to work from, ... anyway, before using the fresh water tank
I'd take the time to sanitize it first if you've never used it before. Easy to do,
only takes a few ounces of bleach per every 10 gallons of water capacity of
the tank. turn on the pump, open the taps and allow the water to run until
you can smell the bleach. let it sit for a day then drain the tank and flush
out the water system with fresh water. You'll need to flush out the tank as
well until no more bleach smell can be detected.
Once you've done the above you can fill the tank with the water of your
choice and dispense with the hose question.
Also, if the coldest it is going to be is at or slightly below freezing you could
just put some water in the tank for flushing (using the pump), and buy a
case or 2 of bottled water for drinking and cooking.
Several different ways to go about having a good experience.

hankaye

[tundrwd]

Thanks, unfortunately, I'm probably out of time trying to sanitize the tank. I have to leave town tomorrow for a few days, get back late Thursday, leaving early Friday morning. So doesn't leave time for filling, bleaching, draining, flushing, etc. Forecast just went south on me since yesterday morning for my location, and I've been very busy with work, and a few things at home.

We'll only be out 3 nights, and two of those are forecast to get down to 30-32, daytime highs in low 50's for a day or so. So I'm really only concerned about nights. Leaving hose hooked up and water on doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. So, I guess I'll probably just use fresh water tank for flushing, and bottled water for drinking.

Now, question is - if there's some water in tank, but pump is NOT on, and you hook up the city connection - where does your water come from? The city connection? I'd assume so as I've never had any water collect in the fresh water tank.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by tundrwd

We'll be going out this coming weekend (so need a quick answer), and it's finally going to hit just at freezing overnight.

I have a 2016 Keystone Bullet, with insulated (but I'm sure unheated), undercarriage, etc. So tanks, etc are "foam surrounded". Not too worried about tanks freezing.
However, I'm wondering about fresh water. I could put some water in the fresh water tank and use that, or could get some kind of "heat cord" to wrap around the fresh water hose, and the spigot.

Thoughts?

There's multiple considerations in your question and comments. First, you're mistaken about the "foam surrounded" tanks. The Bullet is built with a "sandwich floor system" meaning there's a bottom sheet of 1/4" OSB and a top sheet of 3/8" OSB with 1" to 2" of foam "laminated/sandwiched" between them. That's the "foam insulation" below your feet in your trailer. There is NO other insulation to be found. Below that "floor system" sits the holding tanks, fresh water tank, LP piping, plumbing runs, and electrical runs. All of that is "capped" on the bottom of the frame rails with a sheet of "corrugated plastic" (think plastic cardboard box) which is screwed to the lower lip of the frame. There is nothing surrounding the tanks, nothing to close off or seal the many holes in the metal frame and nothing to "protect from freezing" any of the components that are located below the "insulated floor", with the exception of a small 2" heat duct that branches off the furnace and points "somewhere in the basement". Bottom line: The "insulated and heated" polar package, arctic pack, tundra insulation (or whatever name is being used this year) is an advertising gimmick, it isn't suitable for "really cold weather" use, but at the temps you'll see, it should be adequate without any further considerations.

To be honest, with nighttime temps in the 30-32 degree range and daytime temps in the 50's, you'll be OK so far as the tanks go, but the only "possible problem" will be the water supply hose. It might freeze, but if it does, it'll be temporary and barring any freeze damage, as soon as the sun hits it, it'll thaw.

Your idea of using the fresh water tank for flushing/bathing and bringing along bottled water for drinking/cooking is a good "workaround" for this trip. Once you get the chance to sanitize and flush your water system, then it will be suitable for all your needs.

To answer your question on "where does water come from when hooked to city water?" the "short answer" is that it will come from the city water supply. More accurate, the answer is that it will come from city water as long as the pressure is adequate. If the city water supply pressure is low, then when you open a faucet or flush the toilet, if the 12 volt water pump is turned on AND the pressure drops below the pump setting, then the pump will also start running to add water to the lines to bring the pressure up to the setting. So, the "real answer" is that water can come from both city water connection AND the fresh water tank, depending on the circumstances. Also, there is a one way valve built into the water pump that prevents city water from "backflowing" through the pump and into the fresh water tank. So, if that valve is working properly, you won't fill your fresh water tank through the city water connection. Here lately, several members have commented that their valves have failed, so you might want to keep an eye on your tank status gauge to see if you have any "increasing fresh water level" reflected, but chances are you probably won't, so it "should be OK".

Bottom line, you shouldn't have any problems with temps only down to 30 degrees during a couple hours each night and temps in the 50's during the day.

[tundrwd]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There's multiple considerations in your question and comments. First, you're mistaken about the "foam surrounded" tanks. The Bullet is built with a "sandwich floor system" meaning there's a bottom sheet of 1/4" OSB and a top sheet of 3/8" OSB with 1" to 2" of foam "laminated/sandwiched" between them. That's the "foam insulation" below your feet in your trailer. There is NO other insulation to be found. Below that "floor system" sits the holding tanks, fresh water tank, LP piping, plumbing runs, and electrical runs. All of that is "capped" on the bottom of the frame rails with a sheet of "corrugated plastic" (think plastic cardboard box) which is screwed to the lower lip of the frame. There is nothing surrounding the tanks, nothing to close off or seal the many holes in the metal frame and nothing to "protect from freezing" any of the components that are located below the "insulated floor", with the exception of a small 2" heat duct that branches off the furnace and points "somewhere in the basement". Bottom line: The "insulated and heated" polar package, arctic pack, tundra insulation (or whatever name is being used this year) is an advertising gimmick, it isn't suitable for "really cold weather" use, but at the temps you'll see, it should be adequate without any further considerations.

I haven't torn open the coraplast, but every hole I can see where anything pierces has expanding foam extending from it. I don't know that it extends to everything, but it appears they did try to seal off any holes. Yeah, it's got the "thermal package", and I don't put a lot of stock in that, I'm mainly relying on keeping the "body" heated to keep some radiated heat going through the floor (nope, don't put much stock in that insulation either - better than nothing, but not by much). And - wow, a 2" duct off furnace to the underbelly... Not counting on a whole bunch there - as I question if the air flow actually goes underneath the "whole" underbody.

Yeah, it's all basically gimmicky, I'm aware of that, but I'm hoping for the temps that I'm going to see, it's adequate. My only real concern is having the hose hooked up outside. That is the "iffy" part of the equation.

Now, if I were going to do some REAL cold weather stuff, I'd rip off the coraplast, and take a good look at what's underneath. Consider hooking up some electric "heat tape/wiring" around all the tanks, and doing a bit more to get some heat underneath, and spread around. Maybe even consider some kind of quick attach/detach, lightweight skirting. But this will be the last adventure this year, and don't foresee anything until next March, and that will probably be further south - Texas, perhaps.

[mfifield01]

I had one experience with my Fresh Water hose freezing last year. The forecast called for a low of 34, so I wasn't concerned when I went to bed. I woke up and it was 28 out. The Fresh Water hose had frozen. After the sun was up for an hour I was able to unscrew it. Then I just ran water through it and it thawed out. Next time, I will turn it off and disconnect it.

This was in the Texas Hill Country at the end of January.

[tundrwd]

Yep - a "blue norther"? Went through a handful of those as a kid when I lived in Big Spring.

I think I'll just disconnect the hose overnight. Anyone needing to use the bathroom overnight - will have to "walk in the woods" and find a convenient tree...

[Pull Toy]

Drain the hose, and use bottled water for the overnight?

[gearhead]

Go ahead and fill the water tank. Just use it for the toilet. Or if you're feeling brave maybe a shower.
Buy half a gallon of bleach and do the sanitize routine on the trip.