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Old 07-12-2020, 10:21 AM   #1
BigToe
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Help with completely new setup

Hey guys, new here and was sent here by Notanlines from another forum. Little background first. Camped for 32 years but always bunked with my dad in his camper. Unfortunately he passed last fall so I am now in the market to get my own tv and camper. Never owned anything larger than 1/2 ton. Never had or pulled a fifth wheel but that is what I would prefer moving forward. I would only make longer trips 1-2 times a year which would consist of going from okla to Colorado or North Carolina. Other trips would be at most 100 miles for weekend trips here and there. So here’s my questions and any help is greatly appreciated.

Truck will be daily driver which on normal days will be no more than 5 miles a day. For this reason I was suggested to not get a diesel as they aren’t nice for short commutes. Is this true?

Don’t have a exact camper in mind but the more options available to me the better. Currently looking at this one. https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/trave...te/2898KS/4392 Being 11k maxed weight I was told is getting into 1 ton territory due to payload. I don’t have any plans to go more than 12-14k max weight and would prefer the rig above weight.

Truck I was looking at is a Chevy (I’m a Chevy guy) 2020 2500 gasser with 10,650 GVWR, 24000 GCVWR, 6600 rear axle rating, 3400 payload, 2490 max tongue weight. Is this at or over the 3/4 limits?

I have also looked at a 1 ton gasser 11350 GVWR, 24000 GCVWR, 7250 rear axle rating, 3913 payload, 2460 max tongue weight.

Max weight of passengers will be around 750 lbs, add in hitch, toolbox with tools and I’m prolly around 1k added weight

With either of these vehicles what max weight fifth wheel should I be looking for. I’ve been told to take 25 percent of GVW of camper for pin weight however how does that work with max tongue weight rating on truck. Going by that logic a 1 ton truck can’t pull a 10k trailer and the 3/4 ton actually gives me more tongue weight but less payload.

Again, any help is greatly appreciated.
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:40 AM   #2
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Hey guys, new here and was sent here by Notanlines from another forum
We won't hold that against you.

Welcome to the forum.
I own the 2019 version of your truck, 9500 lbs GVWR. Payload is a little less than yours. My trailer is 10000 lbs GVWR. I personally would not tow anything more than that. I like the buffer I have. Took it to the cat scales Friday night loaded for camping and was very happy with what I saw.
I would think that a 3500 should take care of what you want weight wise, but if I had to go through mountainous areas I would opt for the diesel.
Someone with a lot more experience than I will be along soon, you came at nap time.
Again welcome and good luck.
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:44 AM   #3
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Just my humble opinion, but with any fifth wheel, I think you are way better off going with a 1ton truck. 3/4 ton trucks are almost always limited by their payload capacity. The payload capacity is what you need in order to handle the heavy pin weight or “tongue weight” of a fifth wheel.

Either diesel or gas, if you want to tow a fifth wheel, get a 1 ton truck.
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:55 AM   #4
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Agree with the get a 1 ton but have a question. If you are only looking at 5 th wheels why are you concerned about tongue weight? Tongue weight is what a travel trailer applies to a hitch under the bumper of the truck. A fifth wheel applies pin weight to a fifth wheel hitch bolted in the bed of the truck.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:07 AM   #5
BigToe
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I was going by what shows on the towing label. It says conventional trailering tongue weight is 1450 but fifth wheel max tongue weight is 2490. I had just assumed it meant pin weight.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:19 AM   #6
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I was going by what shows on the towing label. It says conventional trailering tongue weight is 1450 but fifth wheel max tongue weight is 2490. I had just assumed it meant pin weight.
Don't know what "towing label" you were looking at but it should have said " fifth wheel max hitch weight is 2490". Not arguing semantics but if you start mixing tongue weight with fifth wheel pin weights you'll just get answers based on confusion.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:19 AM   #7
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Just to throw it out there- a 1 ton DRW isn’t that hard to park and it would be the ONLY truck you would have to buy.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:32 AM   #8
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If you strongly prefer that 11k GVWR 5er you linked, @20% tongue weight you would have 2200 lbs pin. The 2020 Chevy you mentioned with a 3400 lb payload would leave you with 1200 lbs more payload. So with your 1k additional payload you mentioned, you would likely be close. I would probs go for the 1 ton gasser. One of our site team just got a new Ram 1 ton gasser and he has around 3900 payload and tows a 13-14k 5er. That should work.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:36 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Don't know what "towing label" you were looking at but it should have said " fifth wheel max hitch weight is 2490". Not arguing semantics but if you start mixing tongue weight with fifth wheel pin weights you'll just get answers based on confusion.
Flybuoy, the new chevys have a towing label on them and that is the exact terminology that they use.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:45 AM   #10
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If you strongly prefer that 11k GVWR 5er you linked, @20% tongue weight you would have 2200 lbs pin. The 2020 Chevy you mentioned with a 3400 lb payload would leave you with 1200 lbs more payload. So with your 1k additional payload you mentioned, you would likely be close. I would probs go for the 1 ton gasser. One of our site team just got a new Ram 1 ton gasser and he has around 3900 payload and tows a 13-14k 5er. That should work.
Thanks Gegrad, I also posted specs of a one ton gasser with 3913 payload. You think I would be safe with a 13k max fifth wheel with this one ton with occasional Colorado trips? This would exceed max pin weight noted by the truck. How big a issue is that?
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Old 07-12-2020, 12:11 PM   #11
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Flybuoy, the new chevys have a towing label on them and that is the exact terminology that they use.
Thanks for that picture. But the conventional terminology is what I'm getting at. Just trying to avoid confusion. Some of us are just naturally confused.
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Old 07-12-2020, 12:14 PM   #12
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"Hey guys, new here and was sent here by Notanlines from another forum
We won't hold that against you."
Just like Rodney Dangerfield, I get no respect!
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Old 07-12-2020, 12:50 PM   #13
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OP I'm the guy with the new Ram 3500 and 5th wheel. The truck payload is 3990 give a pound or 2 (can't remember exactly). I had wanted at least 4k but....

The trailer is the one in my sig and the gvw is 14,400 if I recall. I carry about 1200 lbs. of gear in the trailer. It has not been scaled yet but if the dry weight of 11,4xx is correct I should be under 13k loaded. At 20% pin weight I should not be over 2600 (guestimation) which doesn't leave a lot IMO. It's one of the reasons I bought an Andersen hitch. Time will tell but to your questions;

A 1 ton gas truck can possibly tow a 14k trailer but I don't intend to find out. Right now mine does fine across the southern states; much like my 3/4 did with a smaller trailer. It worked fine in the mountains and I'm sure this one will too - it's not a big strain. The trailer you linked would be just fine behind a truck like this.

Diesel vs gas is always a conversation and folks have their "druthers". If you intend to primarily travel in the mountains with lots of steep inclines you might want to consider the diesel. With a trailer that size and a truck equipped like mine I wouldn't worry about it. I did have to search high and low for this specific drive train. If I had a lower (numerically) rear ratio my opinion would be entirely different. I will echo a previous sentiment; if you're going to get a 5th wheel just get the 1 ton - you'll need it sooner or later.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:11 PM   #14
BigToe
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OP I'm the guy with the new Ram 3500 and 5th wheel. The truck payload is 3990 give a pound or 2 (can't remember exactly). I had wanted at least 4k but....

The trailer is the one in my sig and the gvw is 14,400 if I recall. I carry about 1200 lbs. of gear in the trailer. It has not been scaled yet but if the dry weight of 11,4xx is correct I should be under 13k loaded. At 20% pin weight I should not be over 2600 (guestimation) which doesn't leave a lot IMO. It's one of the reasons I bought an Andersen hitch. Time will tell but to your questions;

A 1 ton gas truck can possibly tow a 14k trailer but I don't intend to find out. Right now mine does fine across the southern states; much like my 3/4 did with a smaller trailer. It worked fine in the mountains and I'm sure this one will too - it's not a big strain. The trailer you linked would be just fine behind a truck like this.

Diesel vs gas is always a conversation and folks have their "druthers". If you intend to primarily travel in the mountains with lots of steep inclines you might want to consider the diesel. With a trailer that size and a truck equipped like mine I wouldn't worry about it. I did have to search high and low for this specific drive train. If I had a lower (numerically) rear ratio my opinion would be entirely different. I will echo a previous sentiment; if you're going to get a 5th wheel just get the 1 ton - you'll need it sooner or later.
Thanks sourdough. I’m pretty much set on the 1 ton now even though I really have no idea what camper I will get but it gives me more options. Any idea about the claims of short commutes with diesel? Like i said most of the time I’ll just be going back and forth to work. Maybe one trip a year to Colorado. I’m leaning towards gas just to avoid any emission stuff but right now I’ve not purchased anything so I’m open to a lot of options.

I have no clue if Forest River campers are even any good but guess that’s a completely different discussion.

By the way the rear end in the new Chevy gassers are 3.73.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:17 PM   #15
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Any new vehicle gas or diesel will have emissions equipment, the diesel has the added cost of def. I have heard but no documentation that the Ford 6.7 hates NOT being under load. Short drives that don’t allow things to reach operating temp aren’t good for any engine. I suspect the gasser is more tolerant though.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BigToe View Post
Thanks sourdough. I’m pretty much set on the 1 ton now even though I really have no idea what camper I will get but it gives me more options. Any idea about the claims of short commutes with diesel? Like i said most of the time I’ll just be going back and forth to work. Maybe one trip a year to Colorado. I’m leaning towards gas just to avoid any emission stuff but right now I’ve not purchased anything so I’m open to a lot of options.

I have no clue if Forest River campers are even any good but guess that’s a completely different discussion.

By the way the rear end in the new Chevy gassers are 3.73.


Smart to stick with the one ton truck since you are not sure what you want quite yet. I would expect you should be able to get a 4:10 rear in a one ton, right? That would be shocking if you couldn't. You might have to search for it, I know it took Danny a long time to find one. I also would not want to tow a 14k+ trailer with the gasser. If you do decide to go that large, you might reconsider a diesel truck at that point, but the gasser should work perfectly fine with an 11-12k 5er. You will have to let us know how that new 6.6L Chevy gas engine runs as well. Heard good things, but haven't driven one.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:30 PM   #17
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Smart to stick with the one ton truck since you are not sure what you want quite yet. I would expect you should be able to get a 4:10 rear in a one ton, right? That would be shocking if you couldn't. You might have to search for it, I know it took Danny a long time to find one. I also would not want to tow a 14k+ trailer with the gasser. If you do decide to go that large, you might reconsider a diesel truck at that point, but the gasser should work perfectly fine with an 11-12k 5er. You will have to let us know how that new 6.6L Chevy gas engine runs as well. Heard good things, but haven't driven one.
Unfortunately the new Chevy gasser 6.6 only comes with the 3.73 rear end. The diesel is set with the 3.43. I just hate to get something so much more expensive with the added emission for as little towing I’ll actually be doing but I’ve not ruled it out either. I don’t want to get something that I’m going to be harming by not driving it enough though.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:34 PM   #18
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Just my 2 cents. Get the diesel if you have any doubts about the ability of the gasser. My family and practically all of my friends own them and will never switch back. I'm not going to tell you that no one ever has problems with a diesel. I know that they, like all mechanical things can and will break down, and diesels typically are more expensive to repair. That said, I've not had any major issues with any of mine to date. The newer diesels are very capable. My last two trucks were diesel duallys. Very stable tow vehicles. It's good that you do your research. Good luck in making your decision. My dually sits for two months at a time. No harm done. 190K miles on the odometer currently.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:43 PM   #19
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Unfortunately the new Chevy gasser 6.6 only comes with the 3.73 rear end. The diesel is set with the 3.43. I just hate to get something so much more expensive with the added emission for as little towing I’ll actually be doing but I’ve not ruled it out either. I don’t want to get something that I’m going to be harming by not driving it enough though.
That's pretty surprising re: the rear end. And I am with you; I did not want a diesel either, that's why I got my new gasser, as I will possibly go to a 10-11k 5er in a few years and my setup will be fine for that. I don't ever physically want to tow or maintain anything larger than that, so that's why I was good with a 3/4 ton.
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Old 07-12-2020, 02:01 PM   #20
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You might want to really pick the trailer first.
All of this means nothing if you're not happy with the floor plan and options you want based on the type of camping you want to do.
Do you need 40' of trailer and a 1 ton truck to long haul it once a year? You might find that beast of a set up a pain to weekend camp.
Now, the 3/4 ton and 1 ton have the same drive train so the only difference is the payload. fuel economy should be negligible.

I picked my truck based on the 5th wheel I wanted to tow and the Max GVWR of 10000 lbs. When I found it I bought it.
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