Towing by the Numbers

[xrated]

Originally Posted by bfisher003

One of the "problems" or questions I have struggled with is the GVWR vs. Max axle weights on my F350. For example, my 2018 F350 CC SB SRW Lariat 4x4 diesel has a GVWR of 11,500 lbs. My door sticker lists my cargo weight as 3,608 lbs.
The axle ratings are:
Front GAWR: 5,600 lbs
Rear GAWR: 7,230 lbs
If you add those it comes to 12,830 lbs, so why is my GVWR 11,500? If I am slightly over that 11,500, but well under the axle ratings when I hook up our Montana fiver where do I stand legally? Color me confused.

I believe it was stated in an earlier post, the axle weight ratings by themselves are just ONE of the elements that the manufacturer uses to determine a Payload for a vehicle. Other factors include, frame strength, braking ability, springs/suspension, tire load capacity, engine/drive train power and torque, as well as gear ratios. The axle rating are just one single component, and I believe, as I stated above in the line of progression for overload, will ALWAYS be a higher number than the rated payload and GVWR of the truck. It has been this way for quite a few years, and the days are long gone when combined axle weight ratings are used to determine the GVWR and Payload ratings.

[hguilford]

Don't even get me started. This is the nightmare you can never wake up from. I'm still waiting for GM to fess up to their egregious and misleading tow specs that caused all my sleepless nights. Suffice to say I won't ever make the same mistake by trusting ANY auto maker or dealership on this subject. Once my situation gets resolved I'm done, never to bring it up again.

[Ken / Claudia]

Regarding post #18. Without hearing from a person who put all those numbers together when the vehicle was on the drawing board. This is my opinion and this is regarding NON COMM trucks. The frame/drive train does not know what engine, body package and end use will be with the finished truck/pickup. All axle ratings I have checked end up higher Max ratings than the vehicles GVWR.
The truck may get a snow plow on the front, winch or aftermarket heavy bumper. It may get a 4500 lb slide in camper or other load in the bed. The bed may be removed and a 12 ft flatbed added etc, etc.
So, they put 1 set of axles/springs/ brakes rated at as much as someone said is safe.
My truck has front axle at 6,000 and rear at 7,000 and the GVWR 11,500. Like said I have not found a truck/pickup with axle ratings that equal the GVWR it's always more.
Here is what I was trained to do regarding NON COMM trucks. Check tire max rating on sidewall. Check each axle wt. compare that to VIN sticker. BTY, I never found a front axle over loaded, always if over it was the rear. Than get the GVWR off the VIN sticker. If a axle or vehicle weight was at or above max. by 1,000 lbs write a cite. For over axle or over GVWR.
Tires, mine are rated at 3640 each. They are aftermarket, does that give me a higher axle rating, NO. But, it gives me a safety margin.
That was a few years ago in my home state. Some police may feel different. Your police may have different ways to enforce those laws.

[JRTJH]

In the Ford Owner's Manual, Ford explains the difference in GVW and the "sum of axle ratings" as "loading variability". Some owners may load heavier toward the front of the vehicle, some may load heavier toward the rear. Load variability allows for different owners to use the vehicle for different applications "UNTIL THE GVW IS REACHED" at which time the loading has reached the maximum for the vehicle, even though there may be additional axle capacity on both front and rear axles.

The examples of a snowplow (additional load on front axle) and/or a rear camper (additional load on the rear axle). Adding one of those two may be "under the GVW and the axle ratings" while adding both may still be under the axle ratings but exceed the GVW, so "ONLY ONE can be used (loaded) at the same time.....

Ford states that ALL maximum ratings are to be followed, not a "pick and choose as long as you're below one rating".... So GVW, RAWR, FAWR and payload all apply to the vehicle capacity and all should remain "under capacity" while the vehicle is being used for any purpose.

[Jbrobson1958]

Along these same thoughts are 250/2500 diesels towing big 5 ers. Their payload limit is probably about 2500#. Based on numbers it seems like a diesel is a waste unless you're looking at a 350/3500

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Jbrobson1958

Along these same thoughts are 250/2500 diesels towing big 5 ers. Their payload limit is probably about 2500#. Based on numbers it seems like a diesel is a waste unless you're looking at a 350/3500

Two thoughts, I previously had a 2011 F250 CrewCab, 4x4, Diesel in XLT trim, which is certainly not an upper trim level...more of a mid trim level. The payload on that truck was 2148 lbs. There is NO WAY a truck like that should be towing most 5th Wheel Camping trailers.

That same truck would most likely have been OK with a gooseneck/5ver hitch type flatbed/utility type trailer as long as you kept the load in that trailer fairly low, or at least moved it to the rear of the trailer. It's pretty widely known that almost anything 3/4T and Diesel engine is going to have a pretty anemic payload capacity.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by Frank G

I am not suggesting any numbers are exceeded. When site team members write statements like this,

"max tow capacity is just "paper talk" so be careful."

I question the validity of the statement.

Paper as in there is ONE truck with that capability. It has NO rear seating, 2WD, GAS, short box, NO options that weigh anything, therefore doesn't exist anywhere but on paper.
When I started my search I used the following formula.
Truck GCWR - Truck GVWR = Trailer GVWR because I assumed both TV and RV would be fully loaded or more. The answer is they were weighed and both were over by a couple hundred pounds.
The second key step is determining pin weight. Use the RV GVWR x 22%. Make sure the payload of the TV can handle it. This is where they normally fail. Payload is EVERYTHING added since the truck left the factory door including the spray on liner you got and the mud flaps. In our case for two full time seniours it's between 800 and 900 pounds. Do a lot of reading, learn the relevant math and have safe fun.

[flybouy]

John's post #24 is point on IMHO. The weight ratings aren't treated like a "Chinese Menu" where you comply with "one" from column A and one from column C". Not either or but don't go over any.

Also makes sense on the axle loading snow plow example I see 3/4 ton trucks with a hydraulic plow on the front and a salt bin with auger and spreader in the bed plowing parking lots.

[RET.LEO]

Originally Posted by tim5055

Also, remember there can be a big difference between what you can tow (hook up and get moving) and what you can safely stop in an emergency situation.

Trailer brakes are not self adjusting, as you travel and use the brakes the pads wear. As you wear down the brakes there is less force applied. Don't let an emergency stopping situation be the time you discover you should have tested and adjusted your brakes....

Lance trailers come from the factory with self adjusting brakes. More and more manufacturers are stepping up.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by RET.LEO

Lance trailers come from the factory with self adjusting brakes. More and more manufacturers are stepping up.

Grand Design has had self adjusting brakes for a few years.