Best 4500 out there?

[Rdowns]

Looking at upgrading my 2006 Ram 3500 Crew Cab DRW to something else... and rightfully (just my experience) I have had so many kinks and problems with this thing I was looking at other brands.... but Im not sure.

Looking at these on ebay ...
Chevy Kodiak 4500 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Ot...m=121663381827
Dodge ram 4500 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ram-Other-Do...m=291476778041
F450 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-F-450-L...m=371337517545

Has anybody had experience with the Kodiak? I know people are bias to their brands of trucks, but looking for some honest opinions.

[ReadyToRoll]

Really hate to say this being a Ram owner, but think the best 450 on the market today is the Ford. They shouldn't be but don't think Ram is trying to put out a real truck today. Too bad as I think they have all the components to have the best of the three but have yet to put them together as of yet. Don't see it on the horizon for 2016 ether unless you want a HellCat Charger. LOL Their problem today, in my opinion, is the transmission gearing on the 6 speed. Even the Aisin is geared much higher than the other two and it shows on most any pulling comparison that can be viewed. As for the engines, think probably they are the strongest of the 3 but that's the only thing even keeping them in the pulling game. I re geared my 2500 and it helped considerably but truly still isn't where I think a "truck" should be. Just my thoughts. Still hoping in 2017 Ram will get the big picture. Cute commercials aren't going to be getting the sales.

[BirchyBoy]

I'd take the new truck with the warranty. But that's me.

[C130]

I wouldn't even think of giving $35,000 for a 2008 F450, that is insane. You could buy a 2011 or later for close to that I would think, assuming you could find one. I do know the resale value is high on the diesels around here and is the reason I didn't buy used in 2012 when I bought my F250. The problem with any of the used diesel trucks in my opinion is finding one that hasn't been abused. I'd suggest if you are going to buy used find a later model (Ford 2011 or later) as there's not that much difference in the prices. Ford and RAM F250/2500, F350/3500 trucks, both SRW and DRW, are everywhere here but I've only seen 2 other F450's since I bought mine, both pretty new.

As someone has already stated, I'd suggest new with a warranty. I know they aren't cheap but one big issue on a non warrantied truck and you'd be ahead buying new. You can get a new one at a decent price if you don't mind foregoing a lot of the options and still have a nice truck for towing.

[larry337]

Originally Posted by C130

I wouldn't even think of giving $35,000 for a 2008 F450, that is insane. You could buy a 2011 or later for close to that I would think, assuming you could find one. I do know the resale value is high on the diesels around here and is the reason I didn't buy used in 2012 when I bought my F250. The problem with any of the used diesel trucks in my opinion is finding one that hasn't been abused. I'd suggest if you are going to buy used find a later model (Ford 2011 or later) as there's not that much difference in the prices. Ford and RAM F250/2500, F350/3500 trucks, both SRW and DRW, are everywhere here but I've only seen 2 other F450's since I bought mine, both pretty new.

As someone has already stated, I'd suggest new with a warranty. I know they aren't cheap but one big issue on a non warrantied truck and you'd be ahead buying new. You can get a new one at a decent price if you don't mind foregoing a lot of the options and still have a nice truck for towing.

Actually the 08-10 f450 is highly sought after. Brakes, wheels and other components were much beefier then the the 11-14's. They finally went back to 19.5 inch wheels in 15. Just for reference I got 27500 for my clean f250 XLT with 76k on a trade-in just 2 months ago. A clean 08 F450 Lariat with low mileage should definitely be worth 35 retail. I looked for months and you cannot buy even an f350 dually in 2011 or above for 35000, anything under 37k is ragged out or high mileage.

[C130]

I know the resale value is high but personally I still wouldn't consider $35,000 for an 08. I gave exactly $50,000 for my 2011 F250 Lariat brand new after giving up on used ones that were not much less at the time. I got $34,000 on my trade in and it had 73,000 miles and needed new tires soon. I got the 2015 F450 $12,000 of sticker price. I know the new ones are crazy expensive but if I could I'd suck it up and pay the difference for a few years and get a new warranty.

There was a thread a while back by JAVI that discussed prices and he got a great deal on a new F350 dually. I know it depends on the model and all the options but they can be bought new with some great discounts. I don't limit my purchase area when buying any big items. Diesels are insanely popular in Texas and dealers usually have a lot of them. I see new dually's weekly just in my local area, saw a brand new RAM dually yesterday. I know the F450's/4500's are scarce though but I'd check throughout the USA and be willing to fly in for the right deal. I bought my F250 out of town, flew in and was picked up in the new truck. I drove off the dealership lot about an hour later.

Even though I've never owned a RAM I'd pick the new RAM he listed over the 08 F450 unless I knew the F450's history inside and out. Typically the 4500's an F450's are used for heavy hauling by the hot shotters and even then I still see very few F450/4500 series trucks used. Out of those two trucks I see way more RAM 4500's than F450's by far. I talked to a guy last week in a new F450 Platinum. He said he hauled 20,000 pounds plus to Oklahoma weekly and this was his second F450. He said he loved the truck and pulled those loads very nice.

[sw342]

Originally Posted by C130

I know the resale value is high but personally I still wouldn't consider $35,000 for an 08.

Just for reference, out here in CA trucks can be expensive. I had an 08 3500 LTZ duramax with 43k miles on it I just traded in for $35k. I had a couple private party people wanting to buy it for $35k also. Dealership now has that 08 on their lot for $43K. They will take $39k for it.

To the OP: If you upgrade to the 450 get ready for the registration shock. Your 2006 does not fall into CVRA. The 450 and most new 1 ton duallys will. It will be a minimum of $332 dollars more a year over what you are paying now along with other requirements.

[C130]

Originally Posted by sw342

Just for reference, out here in CA trucks can be expensive. I had an 08 3500 LTZ duramax with 43k miles on it I just traded in for $35k. I had a couple private party people wanting to buy it for $35k also. Dealership now has that 08 on their lot for $43K. They will take $39k for it.

To the OP: If you upgrade to the 450 get ready for the registration shock. Your 2006 does not fall into CVRA. The 450 and most new 1 ton duallys will. It will be a minimum of $332 dollars more a year over what you are paying now along with other requirements.

Another reason to buy elsewhere. I bought my F250 in Ft. Worth because it saved me over $2000 from anywhere I could buy around Houston at the time. I don't remember all the numbers but they told me the percent of sales on Super Duty trucks that were out of state. They had a large board up that listed trucks that were sold out of state and waiting to be picked up it was a lot.

If I was buying a truck for towing only, especially the large toy haulers, I'd seriously look in to the Volvo trucks. The issue there is having something to drive once you get to the campground though I supposed you could just drive the Volvo. There's one for sale close to me right now that has a Smart car on the back.

[Javi]

Just a note... I just paid $38K for my '15 F350 XL dually with 12 miles on it, only difference between mine and a XLT is the cloth seats and carpet.. neither of which I need or want.. otherwise I got the same bells and whistles..

[cb1000rider]

Originally Posted by C130

I wouldn't even think of giving $35,000 for a 2008 F450, that is insane. You could buy a 2011 or later for close to that I would think, assuming you could find one. I do know the resale value is high on the diesels around here and is the reason I didn't buy used in 2012 when I bought my F250. The problem with any of the used diesel trucks in my opinion is finding one that hasn't been abused.

So I've never - ever - bought a new car or truck. When we went to look at tow vehicles, I wanted DRW and found a 2012 F-350 quad cab. Nice truck. 61k on it. $42k and that was between loan value and low book at the dealer.

They just don't depreciate fast enough - and not really knowing the history of that truck, it wasn't worth the risk to me. If I can spend $55k on a new with slightly lesser trim, that's worth it to me.

What's the issue with the new Dodge 3500s?

[larry337]

Originally Posted by C130

I know the resale value is high but personally I still wouldn't consider $35,000 for an 08. I gave exactly $50,000 for my 2011 F250 Lariat brand new after giving up on used ones that were not much less at the time. I got $34,000 on my trade in and it had 73,000 miles and needed new tires soon. I got the 2015 F450 $12,000 of sticker price. I know the new ones are crazy expensive but if I could I'd suck it up and pay the difference for a few years and get a new warranty.

There was a thread a while back by JAVI that discussed prices and he got a great deal on a new F350 dually. I know it depends on the model and all the options but they can be bought new with some great discounts. I don't limit my purchase area when buying any big items. Diesels are insanely popular in Texas and dealers usually have a lot of them. I see new dually's weekly just in my local area, saw a brand new RAM dually yesterday. I know the F450's/4500's are scarce though but I'd check throughout the USA and be willing to fly in for the right deal. I bought my F250 out of town, flew in and was picked up in the new truck. I drove off the dealership lot about an hour later.

Even though I've never owned a RAM I'd pick the new RAM he listed over the 08 F450 unless I knew the F450's history inside and out. Typically the 4500's an F450's are used for heavy hauling by the hot shotters and even then I still see very few F450/4500 series trucks used. Out of those two trucks I see way more RAM 4500's than F450's by far. I talked to a guy last week in a new F450 Platinum. He said he hauled 20,000 pounds plus to Oklahoma weekly and this was his second F450. He said he loved the truck and pulled those loads very nice.

All I'm sayin is you have to compare apples to apples. A new Lariat f450 is 70+. Even with a deep discount its still 60 grand. Some people just dont live in that tax bracket. And like I said the 08-10 F450 was beefier then the ones that followed which make them desirable simply because you cant get one like that anymore. I can't quote the differences because I dont follow it closely enough but its out there, www.fordtruckenthusisat. Would I pay that? No, but I also dont need a f450. If you think that's insane try buying a 06-07 cummins under 100,000 miles. You'll pay dang near what the original owner paid new.

[larry337]

Originally Posted by Javi

Just a note... I just paid $38K for my '15 F350 XL dually with 12 miles on it, only difference between mine and a XLT is the cloth seats and carpet.. neither of which I need or want.. otherwise I got the same bells and whistles..

BTW, reading your sig, the camper package includes heavy service front springs and a rear anti sway bar for side to side roll stability. The package is more designed for slide in bed campers and is certified as such, whatever that means lol. I added the anti sway bar to my f250 and it made a huge difference in rear end stiffness. Not sure but I think the sway bar is standard on the dually so you got the front springs. My dually has the package also.

[LittleJoe]

I recall watching a utube comparison by one of the mags a couple of years ago. They were comparing the new 2013.5 Ram 3500DRW to a 2013 F450.
The Ram was equal to or better than the 450 in every catagorie with a higher tow rating (I think was 30K lbs.)
Add that to the fact that the Ram rode MUCH better.

Point made was that the 450 really needed some upgrading as the new 3500's had really upped the bar.

Infact a new 3500 SRW Ram has higher or equal GVWR and RAWR to a 10 year old DRW Ram.

In Ontario a 450 means it must be registered commercial and if you ever pull a trailer other than your RV you need to carry a log and do full on commercial truck regs including scales etc. A 3500 still has a clause for "personal use" in DOT regs but a 450-4500 does not qualify

[Keywestparrothead]

Originally Posted by LittleJoe

I recall watching a utube comparison by one of the mags a couple of years ago. They were comparing the new 2013.5 Ram 3500DRW to a 2013 F450.
The Ram was equal to or better than the 450 in every catagorie with a higher tow rating (I think was 30K lbs.)
Add that to the fact that the Ram rode MUCH better.

Point made was that the 450 really needed some upgrading as the new 3500's had really upped the bar.

Infact a new 3500 SRW Ram has higher or equal GVWR and RAWR to a 10 year old DRW Ram.

In Ontario a 450 means it must be registered commercial and if you ever pull a trailer other than your RV you need to carry a log and do full on commercial truck regs including scales etc. A 3500 still has a clause for "personal use" in DOT regs but a 450-4500 does not qualify

You are correct, the '11 thru '14 F450s had been neutered, not sure why, but they had. The '15 F450 is a completely different animal. I have 40k certified tow rating now More than I will ever need, but gives me great peace going down the road. In NC, no special plate/reg requirements, but your state/area may differ and should be considered. A '15 F350 DRW with upgraded tow package can get you close to that as well and might allow you to stay away from special regs.

[Keywestparrothead]

Originally Posted by Keywestparrothead

You are correct, the '11 thru '14 F450s had been neutered, not sure why, but they had. The '15 F450 is a completely different animal. I have 40k certified tow rating now More than I will ever need, but gives me great peace going down the road. In NC, no special plate/reg requirements, but your state/area may differ and should be considered. A '15 F350 DRW with upgraded tow package can get you close to that as well and might allow you to stay away from special regs.

More info from last year when I was doing my homework...

Differences between 2015 F350 and F450 (from Ford)

Chassis improvements
The F-350 is available with a high-capacity towing package that includes new front springs and a wide track axle, increasing the gross combined weight rating with the 6.7-liter Power Stroke engine from 31,900 pounds to 35,000 pounds.

Improvements to the F-450 that allow it to handle the increased tow rating include commercial- grade 19.5-inch wheels and tires; upgraded rear U-joints and suspension components, including new rear leaf springs; front and rear stabilizer bars; and shocks. The steering system has stronger gears and linkages and the fifth-wheel/gooseneck has an increased towing capacity. The brakes are larger brakes and feature new antilock brake calibration for enhanced braking performance.

2015 DRW 4x4

3.73 23.5k for total of 31.9k

4.30 26.5k for total of 40k (limited by the 26.5k hitch, gooseneck is 31.2k)

[Desert185]

I have a friend with a 5,000#, 3-slide out, camper on the back of a Duramax dually towing an enclosed trailer with either two quads or a rock-crawler Samurai in it. He needs a 450/4500, but doesn't seem too concerned.

[larry337]

Rdowns that F450 in the link is a monster tow machine with with huge brakes and 19.5 inch wheels and tires, and 4.88 rear end. It'll pull whatever you want very confidently. I had a 6.4 I bought new and drove 5 years completely stock with emissions intact. Never even had a check engine light. Not one problem. It is a very strong smooth quiet motor. That said, I left it stock for 2 reasons, one it was under warranty and two we do emission testing where I live. But it was in a constant regen. It didnt affect anything in the way it ran, it's just annoying knowing in the back of your mind that the regens are robbing fuel economy and long term are probably diluting your oil. I had 3.55 gears and got about 8 mpg towing, 15-17 empty. It's a fuel guzzler. With 4.88 gears you'll love the power but I can't even imagine the fuel economy. To really get the most out of that engine it has to be deleted. They are easy to delete and tune and then you'll you'll have more power and torque then a 6.7 and keep the tune mild and it is safe power. Your fuel economy should go up some too. The only way I would own that truck is deleted. Most 6.4 owners out there are very happy with their truck, it has proven more reliable then the old 6.0, just delete it, did I mention delete it?