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05-18-2020, 07:45 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-2020
So I had the fleeting thought this weekend to get the wheels balanced before a long trip north. I took two of the four into Discount Tire this morning and they balanced them. I'll take the other two in tomorrow for the same. But now I wonder if they used hub or lug centric. I'll have to ask. Another post on this thread says it's no matter on aluminum wheels (which is what I have). One of the two wheels from this morning had 16 lead weights stuck down on the inside. That's a lot of out of balance in my book! What kind of tree did I decide to climb?!
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Just a thought but I would think anything cast would be more likely to be out of balance. The casting process isn’t perfect and if you had just a hairs width thicker on one side than another would cause quite a weight difference.
Most car wheels are cast these days and I always see a ton of weight on one side. Those that are steel I don’t notice as much weight.
The process of making the rubber tires can have denser areas as well
__________________
Brant
2020 Ford F-350 CCLB, 7.3 gas
2022 Arcadia 3940LT
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05-18-2020, 08:04 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantlyj
Just a thought but I would think anything cast would be more likely to be out of balance. The casting process isn’t perfect and if you had just a hairs width thicker on one side than another would cause quite a weight difference.
Most car wheels are cast these days and I always see a ton of weight on one side. Those that are steel I don’t notice as much weight.
The process of making the rubber tires can have denser areas as well
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I also asked if they could change out the rubber valve stems for metal ones, they didn't have what would fit so we stuck with just a balance. $8.99/tire. Well spent I think, especially after seeing four ounces of weights stuck to the inside.
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05-18-2020, 08:34 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-2020
I also asked if they could change out the rubber valve stems for metal ones, they didn't have what would fit so we stuck with just a balance. $8.99/tire. Well spent I think, especially after seeing four ounces of weights stuck to the inside.
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Doesn’t hurt. I’ve always wondered if balancing is more for comfort or if it reduces wear and tear on suspension as well...
__________________
Brant
2020 Ford F-350 CCLB, 7.3 gas
2022 Arcadia 3940LT
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05-18-2020, 08:45 AM
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#24
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
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If you have 16 weights then there's one of 2 possabilities. !. It was improperly balanced (my guess) or 2. The tire is defected and needs to be replaced. Modern tires should never require that much weight unless the belts have shifted.
I'd first question how the tires were balanced and if they say they are correct ask them to "check the balance" on the one with all the weights. I'll guess it won't be in balance. Anyone that adds that much weight should be asking some questions before adding that much weight.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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05-18-2020, 08:48 AM
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#25
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantlyj
Doesn’t hurt. I’ve always wondered if balancing is more for comfort or if it reduces wear and tear on suspension as well...
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Any rotating mass will eventually cause damage to the supporting assembly if it's out of balance regardless if you are there to feel it or not.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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05-18-2020, 08:56 AM
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#26
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantlyj
Just a thought but I would think anything cast would be more likely to be out of balance. The casting process isn’t perfect and if you had just a hairs width thicker on one side than another would cause quite a weight difference.
Most car wheels are cast these days and I always see a ton of weight on one side. Those that are steel I don’t notice as much weight.
The process of making the rubber tires can have denser areas as well
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Cast wheels aren't removed from the mold and stuck on a tire mounting machine. All cast wheels are machined to fit and to "run true". Most are balanced by the manufacturer as well.
A lot of tires come from the manufacturers with such a good balance that they paint a dot on the sidewall to indicate to the installer should align that spot with the valve stem. A "good" tire shop will do this if they care enough.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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05-18-2020, 09:10 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
If you have 16 weights then there's one of 2 possabilities. !. It was improperly balanced (my guess) or 2. The tire is defected and needs to be replaced. Modern tires should never require that much weight unless the belts have shifted.
I'd first question how the tires were balanced and if they say they are correct ask them to "check the balance" on the one with all the weights. I'll guess it won't be in balance. Anyone that adds that much weight should be asking some questions before adding that much weight.
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I’ll have them check the balance on that one before I put it back on the axle.
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05-18-2020, 09:47 AM
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#28
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-2020
I’ll have them check the balance on that one before I put it back on the axle.
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Tires have "red, green and yellow dots" on them to depict where the tire is mounted on the rim, in relation to the valve stem, or in some cases, with a specific marked location on the wheel. That tire, the one that required so much weight to balance may, as Marshall said, be a defective tire or it may simply have been installed on the rim with the incorrect rotational orientation. In other words, with the yellow dot next to the valve stem rather than opposite the valve stem. It does make a difference...
If you're going to ask the question tomorrow and you want to know if you're being fed "bovine waste" or if you're being provided with an honest answer, you can read the article at this link and it will pretty much explain how tires should be mounted on the wheel to minimize "excessive balance weights"...
https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/what...s-on-my-tires/
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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05-18-2020, 11:44 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Tires have "red, green and yellow dots" on them to depict where the tire is mounted on the rim, in relation to the valve stem, or in some cases, with a specific marked location on the wheel. That tire, the one that required so much weight to balance may, as Marshall said, be a defective tire or it may simply have been installed on the rim with the incorrect rotational orientation. In other words, with the yellow dot next to the valve stem rather than opposite the valve stem. It does make a difference...
If you're going to ask the question tomorrow and you want to know if you're being fed "bovine waste" or if you're being provided with an honest answer, you can read the article at this link and it will pretty much explain how tires should be mounted on the wheel to minimize "excessive balance weights"...
https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/what...s-on-my-tires/
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These are new from a 2020 Passport, less than 3000 miles. I know the tire dots you speak of. There were no dots on these tires, sadly.
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05-18-2020, 03:20 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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John I checked out that link you shared- good to know details in there. Thank you.
I made a beeline for Discount to have the first two of four checked again. The store mgr and I both looked over the tread and sidewalls for any deformity that might lead to belt issues and neither of us could see anything (not to say there isn’t). We put both back on the balancer and spun them up (one has 9 weights, the other 16). Both read as balanced. We looked over the tread grooves to see any wobble or deformity and didn’t see anything. He said he’d love to get me in a set of Goodyear’s but reality is from his experience he has seen a lot of trailer tires and wheels that took a bit of weight to get them balanced. He didn’t feel the need to replace them. Coming from a mgr who has his eyes set on monthly sales quotas, margins, and probably commissions, I feel comfortable with what we both saw at the balancer. I’ll take the other two in the morning and see what those show. He agreed to let me stand there and watch from the beginning to end if I wanted. Heck yeah.
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05-18-2020, 03:33 PM
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#31
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
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Here's a video on lug centric VS hub centric balancing.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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05-18-2020, 03:38 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-2020
John I checked out that link you shared- good to know details in there. Thank you.
I made a beeline for Discount to have the first two of four checked again. The store mgr and I both looked over the tread and sidewalls for any deformity that might lead to belt issues and neither of us could see anything (not to say there isn’t). We put both back on the balancer and spun them up (one has 9 weights, the other 16). Both read as balanced. We looked over the tread grooves to see any wobble or deformity and didn’t see anything. He said he’d love to get me in a set of Goodyear’s but reality is from his experience he has seen a lot of trailer tires and wheels that took a bit of weight to get them balanced. He didn’t feel the need to replace them. Coming from a mgr who has his eyes set on monthly sales quotas, margins, and probably commissions, I feel comfortable with what we both saw at the balancer. I’ll take the other two in the morning and see what those show. He agreed to let me stand there and watch from the beginning to end if I wanted. Heck yeah.
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You didn't mention what method was used. Lug centric wheels cannot be properly balanced on a cone balancer unless a lug centric adapter is used.
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05-18-2020, 03:56 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
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Most tire manufacturer's don't want foreign objects of any design to be inserted into the wheels to counter imbalance. Their warranty will disallow coverage when such material is found in the wheel/tire assembly.
Tire warranties. Some like them and others do not. But, in this case, aren't the tire manufacturers telling us something about safety? Just maybe there is a better, safer way to balance the tires without the use of internal foreign objects.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...77&FORM=WRVORC
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05-18-2020, 05:29 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
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16 weights on 1 tire is absurd. Either you have a bad tire or a bad wheel...
Also... ceramic beads work quite nicely and balance tire/wheel combo dynamically as the tire wears and ages...
Been using these for over 20 years in my two motorcycles, 3 different diesel trucks and five different RVs....
4 ounces per 235/85x16 G rated 14 ply tire currently in use on my Alpine...
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/
__________________
2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
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05-18-2020, 05:38 PM
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#35
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS
16 weights on 1 tire is absurd. Either you have a bad tire or a bad wheel...
Also... ceramic beads work quite nicely and balance tire/wheel combo dynamically as the tire wears and ages...
Been using these for over 20 years in my two motorcycles, 3 different diesel trucks and five different RVs....
4 ounces per 235/85x16 G rated 14 ply tire currently in use on my Alpine...
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/
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Have you used them with a TPMS? Tried one time and they turn into dust and stick in the valve stems.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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05-18-2020, 05:56 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS
16 weights on 1 tire is absurd. Either you have a bad tire or a bad wheel...
Also... ceramic beads work quite nicely and balance tire/wheel combo dynamically as the tire wears and ages...
Been using these for over 20 years in my two motorcycles, 3 different diesel trucks and five different RVs....
4 ounces per 235/85x16 G rated 14 ply tire currently in use on my Alpine...
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/
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I hear ya - believe me I hear ya and I thought the same, absurd and a couple of other choice words.
But let's look at this from the other side as well, as delivered from the factory; no weights, no nothing. What was the tire and wheel assembly doing at 60-65 mph - how bad was that wheel vibrating down the highway?! (or the other one with 9 weights added for that matter!).
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05-18-2020, 06:04 PM
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#37
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
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'Back in the day" (Lord that sounds old) I had a 1972 Grand Torino. Bought the newly released aluminum wheels. Back then you had a choice of having some Neanderthal with a hammer break the rim trying to put a lead weight on or you could use tape on weights that were notorious for falling off.
I found a speed shop back then that sold bead balancers that went between the wheel and the rotor or drum. I remember it being a thin plate with a tube around the perimeter with beads inside. They worked great for me. I don't know if they are still being made.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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05-18-2020, 06:09 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
'Back in the day" (Lord that sounds old) I had a 1972 Grand Torino. Bought the newly released aluminum wheels. Back then you had a choice of having some Neanderthal with a hammer break the rim trying to put a lead weight on or you could use tape on weights that were notorious for falling off.
I found a speed shop back then that sold bead balancers that went between the wheel and the rotor or drum. I remember it being a thin plate with a tube around the perimeter with beads inside. They worked great for me. I don't know if they are still being made.
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Yes, they still do. It's a company in Texas I believe. I came across their website a few months back. There's also a you tube video they did showing the beads in a clear tube with a strobe. Quite impressive actually. I would have gone that route, but I'll probably upgrade to a 15 inch wheel so no use buying those at this point with 14 inch wheels.
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05-18-2020, 07:15 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan
You didn't mention what method was used. Lug centric wheels cannot be properly balanced on a cone balancer unless a lug centric adapter is used.
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Lug centric with an adapter plate.
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05-18-2020, 07:17 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
'Back in the day" (Lord that sounds old) I had a 1972 Grand Torino. Bought the newly released aluminum wheels. Back then you had a choice of having some Neanderthal with a hammer break the rim trying to put a lead weight on or you could use tape on weights that were notorious for falling off.
I found a speed shop back then that sold bead balancers that went between the wheel and the rotor or drum. I remember it being a thin plate with a tube around the perimeter with beads inside. They worked great for me. I don't know if they are still being made.
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Found them:
https://www.centramatic.com/wheel-ba...us-Motor-Homes
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