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01-18-2019, 06:02 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dallas
Posts: 31
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Issues Winterizing
Needing some help/inputs...
Yesterday I decided to winterize my Cougar Half-Ton 25RES since it's supposed to get down to 28 degrees Saturday and had an issue with the water pump not being able to pull the antifreeze out of the bottle.
I drained the lines and hot water heater. My 5th wheel has two valves for winterization, one for the hot water bypass and one to switch to the winterize fill port. I put the levers in the proper configuration, hooked up an old water hose that I had cut down and put a gallon bottle of antifreeze on the ground. I turned on the water pump and nada... the pump ran but did not pull any fluid out of the bottle. I cracked open a faucet to see if maybe I had a vapor lock and still nothing. After about 15 minutes of no luck, I ended up sticking a large funnel in the water hose and having my son hold it up higher then the fill port and we filled the funnel with antifreeze. I turned the pump on and was able to get it to pull the antifreeze into the system but never was able to get any real buildup in pressure. We did this method with about 2 gallons without letting funnel get empty. The faucets would gurgle/spit and at times put out a steady but very light stream of antifreeze and I believe I was able to get enough antifreeze through the lines to prevent any freezing but the winterize process sure did not seem to be functioning correctly.
Nothing came out of the hot water heater during the process so I know that the hot water bypass valve is working and I also opened up the low point drain on the fresh water holding tank to make sure that it didn't push any antifreeze into that tank.
Anyone have an idea what the issue could be?
Barry
__________________
2018 Cougar Half-Ton 25RES
2009 Dodge 2500 6.7L
coming soon.. 2019 Dodge Laramie 3500 6.7L SRW (on order)
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01-18-2019, 06:54 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,763
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The "old water hose" would be the first suspect in my mind IF the water pump was working. Second I'd suspect the change over valve. If the pump was working then you are sucking air instead of antifreeze. The garden hose was designed/built to hold water pressure which is different then holding a vacuum. The changeover valve could have o rings or seals out of place allowing air to bypass. Lots of post on here about the valve some some searching and reading could be helpful.
Let us know what you find.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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01-18-2019, 07:26 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Try raising the bottle higher than the pump til it primes the pump.
Fairly certain these pumps would never have enough "vacuum" to affect that hose or pull the anti freeze up 3+ feet til it's primed.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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01-18-2019, 09:42 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dallas
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
Try raising the bottle higher than the pump til it primes the pump.
Fairly certain these pumps would never have enough "vacuum" to affect that hose or pull the anti freeze up 3+ feet til it's primed.
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I kinda thought that too so i tried that before adding the funnel with no luck.
__________________
2018 Cougar Half-Ton 25RES
2009 Dodge 2500 6.7L
coming soon.. 2019 Dodge Laramie 3500 6.7L SRW (on order)
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01-18-2019, 09:52 AM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dallas
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
The "old water hose" would be the first suspect in my mind IF the water pump was working. Second I'd suspect the change over valve. If the pump was working then you are sucking air instead of antifreeze. The garden hose was designed/built to hold water pressure which is different then holding a vacuum. The changeover valve could have o rings or seals out of place allowing air to bypass. Lots of post on here about the valve some some searching and reading could be helpful.
Let us know what you find.
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Hose was in very good shape since it's pretty much been sitting on the shelf in my garage. I'll try and get back out there and check the changeover valve and pump itself. Unfortunately its at a storage facility and not my house but luckily getting to the pump and valve is pretty easy with this trailer. They are immediately behind the panel and easily accessible through the basement.
__________________
2018 Cougar Half-Ton 25RES
2009 Dodge 2500 6.7L
coming soon.. 2019 Dodge Laramie 3500 6.7L SRW (on order)
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01-22-2019, 02:14 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: radium hot springs bc
Posts: 2,007
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Back in the old days when we used to have to "borrow" some gas we found that using a smaller diameter hose would get the siphon effect going much easier.
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2018 Ram 3500 6.4 Harvest Edition
2018 Cougar 27RESWE
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01-22-2019, 02:33 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 329
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My dealer gave me a clear hose attached to a black clip. He said unclip the hose running from the water tank and insert the clip attached to the clear plastic hose, I inserted the clear hose in the antifreeze jug sitting next to the pump. The hose had to travel up over the cabinet and down into the jug. It had no problem priming or pulling antifreeze. I would say it is sucking air from some where if it wont prime.
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John & Ekeen
2009 Ford F-150 5.4
2015 Nissan Armada 5.6
2021 Keystone Residence 40FLFT
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10-14-2019, 04:14 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Dryden
Posts: 9
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I also have a 25res and had the identical problem you speak of ( not being able to use the winterizing port to syphon antifreeze out of a jug). What I'm about to tell you worked for me. In the winterizing port you will observe a little valve stem dead center poking out towards you. If you push on the stem with your finger, it will go inwards then spring back out when released. The suction from the pump has to overcome this spring tension of this valve or no suction from the jug occurs. One port over to the right is the city water port. In that port is a cone shaped screen in a washer. Borrow this cone shaped washer screen and insert it into the winterizing port, cone point inwards first. Cone point pushes on stem opening port ready for pump to syphon through. Now screw in your syphon hose from antifreeze jug on top of cone washer and start your pump. Return cone washer (point outwards) to city water port when done...let me know what happens!!🙂
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10-20-2020, 03:57 PM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Londonderry
Posts: 1
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Having similar problem with pump
We have a 2020 29RES and also have a similar problem of not being able to use the winterizing port to syphon the antifreeze. This thread has been very informative and helpful, but we are still unsuccessful and are getting frustrated trying to solve the problem. Thought Canskan's reply was our answer, but it doesn't seem to be working.
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10-27-2020, 10:13 AM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Danvers
Posts: 9
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Worked like a charm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canskan
I also have a 25res and had the identical problem you speak of ( not being able to use the winterizing port to syphon antifreeze out of a jug). What I'm about to tell you worked for me. In the winterizing port you will observe a little valve stem dead center poking out towards you. If you push on the stem with your finger, it will go inwards then spring back out when released. The suction from the pump has to overcome this spring tension of this valve or no suction from the jug occurs. One port over to the right is the city water port. In that port is a cone shaped screen in a washer. Borrow this cone shaped washer screen and insert it into the winterizing port, cone point inwards first. Cone point pushes on stem opening port ready for pump to syphon through. Now screw in your syphon hose from antifreeze jug on top of cone washer and start your pump. Return cone washer (point outwards) to city water port when done...let me know what happens!!🙂
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Just picked up our new 2020 Montana 3741FK 5 days ago and went to winterize it yesterday. The pump started to pull in the antifreeze and then stopped. Couldn't get it to finish the job. Read Canskan's post and tried it today. Finished the job in no time at all. Thanks for the tip.
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10-27-2020, 03:15 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canton
Posts: 289
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I have a $10 solution - not best, but it worked on a friend's camper that was being stubborn.
I have a Harbor Freight transfer pump. His pump wouldn't pull up the juice, so we tried the transfer pump as a way to "feed" the pump. Not the best solution, but it worked quite well.
__________________
Eddy
2019 GMC Sierra 2500HD 6.0L
2020 Cougar 32BHS
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10-30-2020, 03:40 AM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 18
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I know this is an old thread but I had the same problem. My solution was ridiculous. The stickers the manufacturer had placed on my Winterize valve and Hot Water Tank valve were backwards. Turning the Winterize valve to OFF position actually turned it on. Same with the Hot Water Tank. Luckily this was caught before any damage was done. I was so frustrated that a brand new unit would have these issues already but a quick fix with a Sharpie to write “off” and “on” correctly fixed the issue.
__________________
2021 Keystone Cougar 364BHL
2019 RAM 2500 Diesel
B&W Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch
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08-07-2021, 08:31 AM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Wilbraham
Posts: 1
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Easy Fix
There’s two issues with the winterizing system. The check valve in the winterizing inlet is too strong and often a full size garden hose is too big. Buy a 3/4” brass males hose connector with a nipple for 1/2 inch plastic tubing, 3 or 4 ft of tubing, and a cone screen hose washer. Put the hose washer in the inlet backwards and screw on the hose. This will open the check valve and allow the pump to draw antifreeze from a bucket or the bottle.
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12-03-2021, 12:56 PM
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#14
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 9
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Found another cause of pump not pulling antifreeze
We have a 2013 3100RL and have used the winterize port each year to pump antifreeze through the water lines. (This is the only time we use the water pump). This worked fine until November 2020. Wouldn't draw the antifreeze. In a pinch, I used my compressor and blew all the lines out and would deal with the problem next season. This year, I replaced the Flojet pump (assuming the seals had gone). Tried winterizing and had the same problem.
Long story short, the drain valve on the freshwater tank had broken off, allowing air to be sucked into the system. I replaced the valve and the pump sucked the antifreeze in with no problem. Logically it doesn't make sense but perhaps the winterize bypass valve was not making a complete switchover? Anyway, it worked. Anyone need a Flojet pump?
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12-05-2021, 04:46 PM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 1
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I had this exact issue the first time I winterized mine. There is a little rubber gasket inside the female end where you screw your winterizer hose in. Mine was missing that little rubber gasket. Double check to make sure you have that in place, if you don't, I'm certain that's what your issue is.
*I didn't read over everyone's replies, so if someone covered this, I apologize.
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12-06-2021, 03:47 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harris71
We have a 2013 3100RL and have used the winterize port each year to pump antifreeze through the water lines. (This is the only time we use the water pump). This worked fine until November 2020. Wouldn't draw the antifreeze. In a pinch, I used my compressor and blew all the lines out and would deal with the problem next season. This year, I replaced the Flojet pump (assuming the seals had gone). Tried winterizing and had the same problem.
Long story short, the drain valve on the freshwater tank had broken off, allowing air to be sucked into the system. I replaced the valve and the pump sucked the antifreeze in with no problem. Logically it doesn't make sense but perhaps the winterize bypass valve was not making a complete switchover? Anyway, it worked. Anyone need a Flojet pump?
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The only way replacing the fresh water tank drain valve could effect the pump during winterizing is if the tank had enough water to cover the inlet and the winterizing valve failed to close off that source. In that scenario your antifreeze would be mixed with water and basically rendered useless. If you didn't have water in the FW tank then the tank would contain air. If that was the condition then perhaps something else happened during this time and it was a coincidence that it pumped antifreeze.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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10-04-2022, 05:30 PM
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#17
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Bemidji
Posts: 2
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Winterizing 2022 Cougar 23 mls
My husband could not get the water pump to draw from the antifreeze despite following all the steps as directed. Canskan’s advice from a few years ago was just the solution. Our Cougar is not our first rv and he has winterized every rv we’ve owned. This one had us stumped. Using the cone shaped filter from the city water connection, inverting it and placing it in the winterizing connection was simple and effective. Thanks Canskan and this forum.
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10-09-2022, 01:50 PM
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#18
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nederland
Posts: 20
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similar issue
I, too, am trying to winterize my 2015 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel, which I have done successfully in prior years. On my RV, I have a water pump located in the underneath storage compartment (why would a manufacturer ever put it down there, where it takes a tiny acrobat to get to it?). The water pump has a bypass valve which can be turned to a clear vinyl hose that is inserted into the antifreeze bottle. As I said, it has worked fine in prior years. This year, the water pump sucks up about a quart of antifreeze and then stops (mind you, this RV takes a bit over 6 gallons of antifreeze to fill all the lines). As far as I can tell, all the faucets have been drained and closed, the hot water heater bypass valve is in the proper position, and so on. Any ideas on why my water pump would shut off prematurely?
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10-09-2022, 02:17 PM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nederland
Posts: 20
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similar issue
I, too, am trying to winterize my 2015 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel, which I have done successfully in prior years. On my RV, I have a water pump located in the underneath storage compartment (why would a manufacturer ever put it down there, where it takes a tiny acrobat to get to it?). The water pump has a bypass valve which can be turned to a clear vinyl hose that is inserted into the antifreeze bottle. As I said, it has worked fine in prior years. This year, the water pump sucks up about a quart of antifreeze and then stops (mind you, this RV takes a bit over 6 gallons of antifreeze to fill all the lines). As far as I can tell, all the faucets have been drained and closed, the hot water heater bypass valve is in the proper position, and so on. Any ideas on why my water pump would shut off prematurely?
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10-09-2022, 02:20 PM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nederland
Posts: 20
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I read 3x through everyone's recommendations. I want to clarify that there is no pin in the valve that I can see. The seal looks fine. And it will start to pump up the antifreeze (maybe a quarts worth) and then stops. It's suppose to get down to freezing here tonight, so any suggestions would be really helpful. Thank you.
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