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Old 07-15-2019, 11:31 AM   #1
trmanning
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Keystone Buyer Beware!

We finally retired and sold our home in Virginia and bought a new 2018 Keystone Montana 3701LK so we could travel the U.S and end up in our other home in Arizona. From day one we have had issues.
The one of two A/C's broke and Dometic cant fix it so it needs to be replaced. At 90* everything that is glued is melting off the walls and the one A/C is working overtime.
The entire side of the RV fell off going down the road, because they forgot the rivets and it was only held up by silicon.
The slides out came out over 5 inches on 3 of them as we were on I80 and when we called Keystone they said get two by fours and cut them and slide over the tops of the slides! Stupid fix, I used 1500lb cargo ratchet straps and that worked (but use two cause it broke one).
The black tank cable rusted within 3 weeks because they used steel and aluminum which made it rust faster. When I went to open the bottom of the RV and fix the cable all the wires and cables fell out on the ground so I had to zip tie them all back up. (By the way who routes the hydraulic cables for the levels under and over the black tank hoses?????)
The RV dealer put refurbished Best Buy TVs in the RV, not new and hid the stickers under the TV's so when one of them had a problem it has to be replaced. CHEAP $^&%#*
The rear Turn/Stop signals filled up with water on the first rain in West Virginia, so at 10pm I was on the highway repairing those because they burnt out from all the rain.
The bathroom door fell of in transit along with the archway. cheap nails!
The shower doors shattered all over the place, they were locked down too. What a mess to clean up.
The kitchen fan stayed on with the door closed, when I called them they said cut the wire and we will send another board replacement. Who does that?
The Kitchen drawers fall out when in transit because the wood and nails are so cheap that hold them in they just fall off.
The furnace quit about 20+ times because it has a bad switch that Keystone knew was bad. But when it does work the entire kitchen floor (linoleum) raises about 2 inches of the ground, its like walking on a cloud!
The heat pump blows nice COLD air when the furnace is out.
The wheel wells flop so much in the wind going down the road I'm waiting for them to fly off (they put one screw in them and that came off somewhere in Nebraska.)
The outside TV in the outside compartment filled up with so much water when it rained that the TV is broke and has a fill line half the way up the screen because there was so much water in there. But the GFCI never tripped even though it was filled with water.
The ice maker was never hooked up to the fridge because they never put the connection on the hoses.
The GFCI in the bathroom was reversed so it never worked and we spend three days trying to find the problem. bought a new GFCI and had to replace it the right way.
We have so many issues its a wonder we even made it from Virginia to Wyoming. So as we wait to get into the RV Shop 5 weeks waiting, Keystone says they will honor everything but in the meantime we have to dish out tons of money to stay in a hotel instead of our Keystone Montana we purchased. We filed complaints with the Safety boards and looking for a class action because this RV is crap. I have never seen so much TERRIBLE work in my life that I paid for. Looked good from the outside but it is full of lazy, inconsistent, shabby work the Keystone Company should be ashamed of themselves and stop being another Enron or Countrywide or any other Corporation that sells expensive lies.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:02 PM   #2
ronheater70
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O.k, I'll bite. Do you really think it's Keystone or just a run of bad luck with your particular unit. Your issues are WAY excessive. Id be ticked also, but they are trying to take care of it and correct your issues. Hopefully it comes back to you in a correct, everything working, state. I've said it before my previous two rvs were Forest River products that I had stellar good fortune with. Both units never gave me a seconds concern really. However On their board, every now and then you would read a post much like yours saying to beware, they are horrible, etc..In fact I have read more than one account of folks spending near 200K on upper end RV'S and still having ridiculous issues. I try to be a glass 1/2 full type of guy.. Most times I succeed at it. Look at it this way, Your retired, That in itself is Frecon Awesome! The fact that youa re able to buy a fairly nice RV says you have a good life. Just relax, breath and Enjoy that retirement you worked so hard for. Don't ever let some material item grab a hold of you to the point it controls you. It's just wood with a few light switches and a microwave you tow down the road.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:12 AM   #3
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Hope you get your issues resolved. Your dealer is at fault for installing used TVs. That’s not what it comes scrim the factory with. Dometic is to blame for the AC going bad. Multiple brands and manufacturers use the same shower doors and have had the same occasional breakage. As for the other stuff you are right. Keystone needs to step up and fix your unit correctly. You may want to consider pushing for the factory to fix rather than a dealer. Let us know how it goes. I wish you the best.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:52 AM   #4
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I don't know but with so many things going wrong is this unit fixable? Shouldn't Keystone step up and just replace what would seem to be a lemon. But, that said that probably will not happen and I doubt that "lemon laws" cover RV's? Good luck, I sure feel for you two. We also wish you the best.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:15 AM   #5
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Wow that is a lot to go wrong and I can understand your frustration. However, all brands have issues and lemons. You will always find people who are frustrated and angry at a manufacturer. I hope that Keystone steps up to the plate and either replaces your unit or fixes it to your satisfaction. Please enjoy the rest of your retirement. Enjoy your summer and please keep us posted.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:21 AM   #6
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I think Tbos is right . You should press Keystone to have your unit returned to the factory for repair or replacement. You have too many deficiencies for the dealer to properly address. Good luck and hope the rest of your retirement it a lot more uneventful.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:15 AM   #7
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I am not making excuses for anyone, but all brands, all manufacturers and all price points have their issues. There is not a unit that rolls off the line without some sort of issue. Granted, yours is extreme, but I would call the State Attorney General’s office consumer assistance department for your home state and ask them to intervene on your behalf. As a side note, RV’s are like cars in that dozens upon dozens of units roll out the door every shift. But unlike cars where the same people assemble the same car model all day every day, the same people have different tasks and assemble different models throughout the day, so variations are inherent to the process.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:11 AM   #8
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I used to deliver RV trailers and fifth wheels and more than a few were returned to the plant for an array of issues. I would insist on a buy back and start over. It's not just Keystone. These plants churn out upward of 35 fifth wheels a day and 35 bumper pulls a day so expect some sloppiness.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:11 PM   #9
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The title of the thread should've been "RV buyers beware!".
You happened to buy a Keystone that is a POS, but the odds of you buying any other make, model, price RV & getting the same problems is about equal.
I agree with others, have them return it to the factory for repair or get a different unit, don't let the dealership keep it forever & attempt to fix. Dealerships, for the most part, aren't trained or equipped to "rebuild" RVs rather replace faulty parts & appliances.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
I don't know but with so many things going wrong is this unit fixable? Shouldn't Keystone step up and just replace what would seem to be a lemon. But, that said that probably will not happen and I doubt that "lemon laws" cover RV's?
Depends on the state. I know they don't in Arizona, so I'd put off re-registering this unit in your destination state until you check the laws in Virginia.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:41 PM   #11
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The title of the thread should've been "RV buyers beware!".
You happened to buy a Keystone that is a POS, but the odds of you buying any other make, model, price RV & getting the same problems is about equal.
I agree with others, have them return it to the factory for repair or get a different unit, don't let the dealership keep it forever & attempt to fix. Dealerships, for the most part, aren't trained or equipped to "rebuild" RVs rather replace faulty parts & appliances.
Quality is a problem with most RV manufacturers. All the more reason for you to press the issue with Keystone. They will not up their game until they feel the pain of poor quality, and that means all of us need to raise *heck* about it. I agree with others that say they need to take that unit back and give you a new one.

I also agree with others that the dealers really don't know much about fixing stuff. They are focused on selling units, not much else.

If Toyota or Honda ever get into the RV business, the current manufacturers are in for a real shock.

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Old 07-16-2019, 06:04 PM   #12
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Quality is a problem with most RV manufacturers. All the more reason for you to press the issue with Keystone. They will not up their game until they feel the pain of poor quality, and that means all of us need to raise *heck* about it. I agree with others that say they need to take that unit back and give you a new one.

I also agree with others that the dealers really don't know much about fixing stuff. They are focused on selling units, not much else.

If Toyota or Honda ever get into the RV business, the current manufacturers are in for a real shock.

Rich
I agree with your post...sort of. Pressing the issue with Keystone, Forest River, Jayco etc. won't do a thing for you in the current environment. They will do what they will do, and, whether you/me or the other guy likes it...no matter. There are so many folks coming in wanting RVs that they can't build them fast enough - the way they are built, that they could give a flip about you or me griping - the next guy is going to buy them all anyway.

As far as Toyota or Honda coming in and giving the current manufacturers a shock - that won't happen either. IF they did, and charge that 10-15% upcharge because they are "them" and supposedly have a "better" product...they will not make it. For my Toyota's I pay right at list; TX, FL, NM no matter. I don't buy a big 3 unit for less than a 10% discount or more. Big 3 electronics, engines, interiors etc. far surpass Toyota and Honda in these current days plus their engines/drivetrains are just as good (and yes, I do buy Toyotas and currently own one - the last).

Not to digress into a vehicle manufacturer debate but only to point out that the premiums those brands demand will not fly with RVs - you already have premium RV brands. They more or less do well but they are not the "mainstream" units. Nowadays folks want to be able to have an RV at whatever income level they are at. Many grasp at "that one" that is just above what they can afford. That entry level made by Toyota/Honda, with nothing more to offer than a bit of perceived quality increase (maybe) but a big price increase.....? Won't go far IMO. JMO/YMMV of course.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:17 PM   #13
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I agree with your post...sort of. Pressing the issue with Keystone, Forest River, Jayco etc. won't do a thing for you in the current environment. They will do what they will do, and, whether you/me or the other guy likes it...no matter. There are so many folks coming in wanting RVs that they can't build them fast enough - the way they are built, that they could give a flip about you or me griping - the next guy is going to buy them all anyway.

As far as Toyota or Honda coming in and giving the current manufacturers a shock - that won't happen either. IF they did, and charge that 10-15% upcharge because they are "them" and supposedly have a "better" product...they will not make it. For my Toyota's I pay right at list; TX, FL, NM no matter. I don't buy a big 3 unit for less than a 10% discount or more. Big 3 electronics, engines, interiors etc. far surpass Toyota and Honda in these current days plus their engines/drivetrains are just as good (and yes, I do buy Toyotas and currently own one - the last).

Not to digress into a vehicle manufacturer debate but only to point out that the premiums those brands demand will not fly with RVs - you already have premium RV brands. They more or less do well but they are not the "mainstream" units. Nowadays folks want to be able to have an RV at whatever income level they are at. Many grasp at "that one" that is just above what they can afford. That entry level made by Toyota/Honda, with nothing more to offer than a bit of perceived quality increase (maybe) but a big price increase.....? Won't go far IMO. JMO/YMMV of course.
That is exactly what GM, Ford, and Mopar thought until Toyota and Honda took them over their knee and gave them a spanking they would never forget.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:02 PM   #14
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I won't post on this another time but Toyota no longer "spanks" any Big 3 over their knee. They did make an inroad for several years because their quality surpassed what we got out of the Big 3....no more...by a long shot. Their refusal to update/upgrade not only the electronics but also the body styles shows, to me, their belief that Americans are just "gullible" because of their reputation...which has expired.

To try to extrapolate that to RV sales is just.....dream land. Here is a quick view of what "is". Note that the perception of Toyota being better is quickly dying...as it should since they cannot keep up with the tech changes the big 3 are implementing....and, they still have no idea how to make a TV.

https://www.marklines.com/en/statist...esfig_usa_2019

here's another stat. Note that the Tundra, the only pickup that Toyota offers that has "towing" capabilities is "down there". Depending on the source the numbers will change a bit but the positions generally don't....

https://www.businessinsider.com/best...ra-100874-17-7
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:10 AM   #15
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get to the annual rally! and deal with the techs there.


montana actually replaced my 2nd 5th wheel after 3 months, it happens.


push the montana office....go beyond the local dealer.
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:38 AM   #16
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I agree with your post...sort of. Pressing the issue with Keystone, Forest River, Jayco etc. won't do a thing for you in the current environment. They will do what they will do, and, whether you/me or the other guy likes it...no matter. There are so many folks coming in wanting RVs that they can't build them fast enough - the way they are built, that they could give a flip about you or me griping - the next guy is going to buy them all anyway.
I agree with this. It can also be applied onto a lot of different manufacturers of various products.

I've had much more success with biting my tongue and playing nice approach, but reminding them that I want to enjoy their product but I need to keep myself and my family, safe. Now you can apply that just about any way you want. If a tire blows or a spring breaks...that's not safe right? If a roof leaks and mold grows...not safe.

You have to remember that while we see these people we deal with kinda as "robots" or "computers" or something that are only interested in the bottom line, a lot of them have family's too and can empathize with certain types of situations. As well as I would bet there is a lot more people "yelling" at them then even we can fathom, and its probably a breath of fresh air to be a little more civil about it.

In this case I would probably end up back at the original dealer first, or at the manufacturer (if I was on the road and close enough). I feel like either one would step up if they saw some of the issues in person. I know that's probably not what the OP has in mind, but have to start somewhere. I know its going to mean being without the unit for awhile too, unfortunately not much you can do about that.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:42 AM   #17
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I’d like to see pic of the entire side of the Montana that “fell off”....
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:54 AM   #18
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Not a Montana, and not the side but stuff happens. It looked to me like transport paper plate
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:13 AM   #19
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It does have a paper plate, but it also has a McClain RV (dealership) logo above the tail light. Just guessing, but it looks like it was sold and the new owner had a problem with the rear wall falling out.....
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:44 AM   #20
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I agree with this. It can also be applied onto a lot of different manufacturers of various products.

I've had much more success with biting my tongue and playing nice approach, but reminding them that I want to enjoy their product but I need to keep myself and my family, safe. Now you can apply that just about any way you want. If a tire blows or a spring breaks...that's not safe right? If a roof leaks and mold grows...not safe.

You have to remember that while we see these people we deal with kinda as "robots" or "computers" or something that are only interested in the bottom line, a lot of them have family's too and can empathize with certain types of situations. As well as I would bet there is a lot more people "yelling" at them then even we can fathom, and its probably a breath of fresh air to be a little more civil about it.

In this case I would probably end up back at the original dealer first, or at the manufacturer (if I was on the road and close enough). I feel like either one would step up if they saw some of the issues in person. I know that's probably not what the OP has in mind, but have to start somewhere. I know its going to mean being without the unit for awhile too, unfortunately not much you can do about that.


It's interesting you bring this up. Not 10 days ago I was at the dealership waiting to speak to the service mgr. A man and woman were in his office and she was yelling and being very "upset". It was more than 30 minutes as he tried to explain the situation. They finally left and I asked about what was going on. He said they had an 11 year old motorhome and they had took off and tore the door off along with several other issues. The problem was in getting the parts to repair it....they were either hard to find or the manufacturers had them in a holding pattern. The customer was blaming them for the holdup. I just shook my head and said I was amazed at the number of folks that just didn't understand how the "game" went. I then asked about my trailer. He told me it was ready (after only 2 days) and I was surprised (and looked/acted it). I told him I really appreciated the quick turnaround and he told me......"you are a VIP to us. You've had lots of issues and you always understand and treat us with respect. We will do the same for you."

Your comment above holds a lot of truth and even though we sometimes get so upset because our "toy" is stranded someplace for repairs, we have to try to see the bigger picture and recognize where to place the blame.
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