Surge guard hardwired

[chunker]

I have the Raptor 356 on order and will install a surge guard. Course there is South wire, progressive and others unknown at this point. Leaning towards hardwired for convenience and theft protection. But the power cord connects at the back instead of near the basement and area aft of basement. Since I don't have it yet I don't know where it would be mounted but I presume near where the cord plugs in. If so is there an access on the inside to install it or does the wiring go up to the area behind the basement with other electrical components. I plan to install myself.

[chuckster57]

Since you probably have an on board gen, your going to want the EMS installed AFTER the transfer switch. The transfer switch is probably behind the rear wall in the basement.

[chunker]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Since you probably have an on board gen, your going to want the EMS installed AFTER the transfer switch. The transfer switch is probably behind the rear wall in the basement.

On my motorhome it has an installed EMS that is close to the power cord reel. I'm guessing that it's before the generator and transfer switch. It has proved invaluable when we went to AK and up in Canada with low and erratic surging voltage. It tests voltages when first plugged in and if everything is OK, connects to coach wiring. I can see the 2 legs voltages on a readout on it. I'm going to presume with the Raptor the main wiring supply wire goes under the floor up to the area behind the basement. Sound correct? How often does the electrical system need protected from the generator? I haven't checked the motorhome but perhaps it goes to EMS for "checking" before connecting. There is a delay before voltage is supplied to the coach electrical system. I'll check that this weekend.

EDIT add, yes a generator.

[chuckster57]

Don’t know your brand of motorhome, I do know Tiffen uses a “Surge guard” unit that is all in one, auto transfer switch and surge protection. I don’t remember if it protects from under voltage.

[chunker]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Don’t know your brand of motorhome, I do know Tiffen uses a “Surge guard” unit that is all in one, auto transfer switch and surge protection. I don’t remember if it protects from under voltage.

Itasca is/was a division of Winnebago. Very much like Chevrolet and Buick. I dental floor plans and build, different styling and some amenities. The Horizon is the top trim level in the line. The EMS does provide under voltage. When were in Anchorage AK, the pedestals were all checked before we got there, 120-122. Hot day for AK and when the group arrived, many of the units had multiple air conditioners and were running everything. Park dropped to less than 106 and my Ems cut things off. Until it got closer to evening, which seemed like several days since days are long in the summer, July, then as demand lowered, the voltages at the pedestals came up some. I had looked at my EMS at those readings. Some of the lower end units didn't have EMS. Don't know if any suffered long term damages. IN BC near the Canadian side of glacier park a surging voltage that I saw upwards of 140+, then 60+-. Did that a couple times and settle down a while. Repeated that a few times with no indication why. For wiring and feed I guess. We stayed 1 night before things got fried.

I'll look at the brand when I go down today and do that generator check. On the Raptor since getting a wiring diagram is like pulling teeth from anyone except Winnebago, I'll call next week and see what I can get from Keystone and hopefully nothing is wired between the cord feed and the transfer switch. Since the transfer switch "probably" is behind the basement, except for the tight quarters in the 356 basement,( they don't want you to load much there) it should be an easy install. I'll likely get a remote display to mount inside the basement aft wall just forward of the wet bay so I can readily check voltages if things seem squirrelly.

I am looking forward to getting it here, a couple short semi-local shakedown cruises and setting things up with the bike loading/holding system. Thanks for help. Chuckster57, I'm going to start another thread about washer/dryer.

[SAE]

Originally Posted by chunker

On my motorhome it has an installed EMS that is close to the power cord reel. I'm guessing that it's before the generator and transfer switch. It has proved invaluable when we went to AK and up in Canada with low and erratic surging voltage. It tests voltages when first plugged in and if everything is OK, connects to coach wiring. I can see the 2 legs voltages on a readout on it. I'm going to presume with the Raptor the main wiring supply wire goes under the floor up to the area behind the basement. Sound correct? How often does the electrical system need protected from the generator? I haven't checked the motorhome but perhaps it goes to EMS for "checking" before connecting. There is a delay before voltage is supplied to the coach electrical system. I'll check that this weekend.

EDIT add, yes a generator.

What brand and source of EMS equipment did you install?
thanks

[chunker]

Originally Posted by SAE

What brand and source of EMS equipment did you install?
thanks

I don't have the trailer yet, last week it was in paint. I'm researching some of these things now so when it comes I won't waste time getting things done.

[SAE]

Thanks! Hope to hear back on your research!

[chunker]

Originally Posted by chunker

On my motorhome it has an installed EMS that is close to the power cord reel. I'm guessing that it's before the generator and transfer switch. It has proved invaluable when we went to AK and up in Canada with low and erratic surging voltage. It tests voltages when first plugged in and if everything is OK, connects to coach wiring. I can see the 2 legs voltages on a readout on it. I'm going to presume with the Raptor the main wiring supply wire goes under the floor up to the area behind the basement. Sound correct? How often does the electrical system need protected from the generator? I haven't checked the motorhome but perhaps it goes to EMS for "checking" before connecting. There is a delay before voltage is supplied to the coach electrical system. I'll check that this weekend.

EDIT add, yes a generator.

The motorhome is a Progressive Ind. EMS. The generator feed does not go through the EMS as verified today only the shore power.

[SAE]

Originally Posted by chunker

The motorhome is a Progressive Ind. EMS. The generator feed does not go through the EMS as verified today only the shore power.

I wonder what the hangup is? -not putting the protection between the vehicle hot AC bus and the Load bus

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by chunker

The motorhome is a Progressive Ind. EMS. The generator feed does not go through the EMS as verified today only the shore power.

Does your coach have a transfer switch? Or do you plug the shore cord into and outlet in the compartment when using gen power.

[JimJan]

We have a hard wired Progressive unit. Below 105 volts it cuts off all incoming power. Nice to protect electronic devices but would be nice to have ability to bypass if desired. With a plug-in unit you can.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by JimJan

We have a hard wired Progressive unit. Below 105 volts it cuts off all incoming power. Nice to protect electronic devices but would be nice to have ability to bypass if desired. With a plug-in unit you can.

Why would you? The reason it cuts off below 105vac is to protect the air conditioners, the converter, etc.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by JimJan

We have a hard wired Progressive unit. Below 105 volts it cuts off all incoming power. Nice to protect electronic devices but would be nice to have ability to bypass if desired. With a plug-in unit you can.

If you have a PI EMS with the "data cable remote" then there is a switch on the remote to bypass the EMS function.

If you have a PI EMS without a remote (old style unit) there is an optional "bypass switch" that you can order for your EMS-LCHW30 or EMS-LCHW50.

https://www.progressiveindustries.ne...***-switch-kit

[SAE]

Originally Posted by chunker

The motorhome is a Progressive Ind. EMS. The generator feed does not go through the EMS as verified today only the shore power.

See page 5. All that money paid for nice equipment, a person may as well get 100%. protecton. JMHO



https://98fc35b2-8b52-49c0-9df1-3310...164c8e591e.pdf

[KRumm]

I would mount it just behind the shore power cord plug... Then you can just detach the romex from the back of the cord plug... buy a couple feet of similar guage romex from HomeDepot and and splice the EMS in... This would allow you to easily remove the EMS (To move to a different rig) and put the intact wiring back to its original state...

[chunker]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Does your coach have a transfer switch? Or do you plug the shore cord into and outlet in the compartment when using gen power.

To my knowledge no. Power cord plugs into shore power, not the generator. Generator is controlled by the rather sophisticated EMS. There are really 3 electrical systems, chassis 12v, battery 12v and shoer 120v. I'm not an electrician.

[SAE]

Originally Posted by chunker

To my knowledge no. Power cord plugs into shore power, not the generator. Generator is controlled by the rather sophisticated EMS. There are really 3 electrical systems, chassis 12v, battery 12v and shoer 120v. I'm not an electrician.

Does your rig have a self contained AC generator? I thought you mentioned yes in one of your first post?

So, if yes, and you have the generator, you do have 12 V battery power, 12 V power from the inverter, 120 V power from shore, and 120 V power from your generator.

The only Concern of over and under voltage, etc. has to do with your AC voltage supply. As discussed, your AC voltage is either supplied by your generator , or your shore power. The problem with either of those sources of 120 V power is that it can fluctuate beyond what is required of your 120 V systems. Therefore, we need to protect both the The AC systems , those supplied from shore power and from the generator.

The proper way to do this is to install your current protection just prior to your AC load bus or buses. That means your protection device needs to be installed between the AC transfer switch (The usually automatic device selecting either shore power or generator power)And the AC load buses. To place your AC protection after the Shore Power cord attachment, but prior to the automatic switch in box is pointless if the switching box has moved you over to onboard generator AC current as that generator current is not regulated or protected by your safety device.

What threw all of us here is that you were having this device installed and according to your recent discovery posted here is that they are installing it but only protecting you while using shore power.

Have you looked into this? And why are they’d not they not also protecting you from voltage fluctuations from your generator source?

[KRumm]

Is there really a great need to protect oneself from one's own generator?... A standard pedestal plug surge guard (which accounts for the majority of surge guards sold) offers no protection from built in generator with transfer switch... Ihave never seen a forum post where someone said their generator fried their electrics?...

[SAE]

Originally Posted by KRumm

Is there really a great need to protect oneself from one's own generator?... A standard pedestal plug surge guard (which accounts for the majority of surge guards sold) offers no protection from built in generator with transfer switch... Ihave never seen a forum post where someone said their generator fried their electrics?...

"Great" need? _Use it once and you'll be happy(ier). Onan specifically speaks to this in several docs.



Why not just put the protection in the 'proper' location? It does not cost any more to do it correctly.



Also, considering "normal" camping trips of rigs that have on-board generators with auto-switching equipments, I don't think we would be very far out on a tangent to admit that 'usually' (as a percentage) we're tethered to the facility's grid.