My axle is too light for my camper.

keyholeelf · 06-22-2020, 11:52 AM

This forum is great. I always learn new stuff here.

My current camper is a cougar 341RKI. The dry weight plus cargo is 12,220 pounds. The axles are only rated for 5200 pounds for a total of 10,400 pounds. According to my math that means I'm about 1800 pounds too heavy for my axles. What am I not grasping here?

I talked to a dealer repairman and he was pretty sure I had a bent spindle. I'm going to order a new axle, so is it worth cost and effort to go with a heavier axle?

Thanks in advance.
Donald

Javi · 06-22-2020, 12:00 PM

You need to subtract the pin weight from the gross weight and the 2 axles should look better..

You should probably look at the total cost of upgrading the axles.. like tires and wheels too... Not to mention they don't just swap out without a little modification.

Canonman · 06-22-2020, 12:11 PM

Assuming a 15% pin weight you'd have 1833# of weight on the truck axle. So, the axel rating is still within spec.
I checked recently with Lippert and our axels are rated for 4400#. Checking the serial number/build list, they are a 5200# axel with a 4400# spring kit. I'd recommend a call to the manufacturer's customer service and verify the serial number and build components.
Spindles can bend for a number of reasons i.e. potholes, curbs etc.
IMHO a heavier axel would provide additional headroom but the spring pack may still be a limiting factor.

fjr vfr · 06-22-2020, 01:01 PM

Your pin weight will be around 1,300 lbs. Pin weight is typically 20% of gross weight for a 5th wheel. You should take your truck/trailer up to the CAT scale at the truck stop and weigh it...$10. Then unhook and re-weigh the truck...$2 more for a re-weigh.

Then you would know just what you have.
It's always a very good idea to weigh everything then you don't have to guess and rely on lying dealers giving you false sales numbers. Btw, dry weight is meaningless. It's never at that weight even empty...sales number.
Weigh it and know for yourself what you have.
I'm sure you have $12

Maineiacs · 06-22-2020, 01:45 PM

Donald, it would be worth your while to take the coach to a heavy duty truck repair shop for a second opinion. Yes, your axles probably meet the bare minimum legal requirements. Yes, your leaf springs probably meet the same minimum requirements. But a good repair shop could educate you on exactly what you could do to improve things - if it's necessary at all. I learned my lesson on the road years ago, 1,500 miles from home when a leaf spring broke.

CWtheMan · 06-22-2020, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyholeelf

This forum is great. I always learn new stuff here.

My current camper is a cougar 341RKI. The dry weight plus cargo is 12,220 pounds. The axles are only rated for 5200 pounds for a total of 10,400 pounds. According to my math that means I'm about 1800 pounds too heavy for my axles. What am I not grasping here?

I talked to a dealer repairman and he was pretty sure I had a bent spindle. I'm going to order a new axle, so is it worth cost and effort to go with a heavier axle?

Thanks in advance.
Donald

IMO there are no improvements necessary, unless you plan on overloading your trailer. Then there are no improvements to protect the trailer framing from an over weight condition.

I looked up your trailer's specs. Here's how it works. You have a GVWR of 12220# and the recommended tongue weight is 1820#. They subtract the tongue weight from the GVWR and get 10400#. Divide that by 2 requires 5200# axles. They provide the consumer with those figures. They cannot manage them once the consumer takes control of the trailer.

What do you think caused the bent spindle?

notanlines · 06-23-2020, 02:31 AM

Good advice, all, but I liked Jim the Maineiac's suggestion in particular. It would be worth your time.

keyholeelf · 06-23-2020, 07:37 AM

Thanks all. I appreciate the good advice..

**flybouy** · 06-23-2020, 07:43 AM

Would agree on the advice of a truck spring shop. As to the how a spindle gets bent it could be a myriad of events, one being backing into a spot where a very tight turn is necessary. The tires can twist and scuff and if you don't pull forward a bit to relieve the stress the wheel can look like a road grader going down the road. (something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cl9wmSnBq4

)

Indy Steve · 06-24-2020, 11:51 AM

I have a 2018 311RES 5th wheel and the real axle lost camber causing uneven tire wear. I’d like to replace the 5200 lb axle with a 6000 since the fresh water tank is in the back. If I replace the springs on that axle, will I be okay with the Mor-Ryde system or should I use the existing springs? I’m just trying not to replace the perfectly good front axle. Thoughts are appreciated.

Canonman · 06-24-2020, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Steve

I have a 2018 211RES and the real axle lost camber causing uneven tire wear. I’d like to replace the 5200 lb axle with a 6000 since the fresh water tank is in the back. If I replace the springs on that axle, will I be okay with the Mor-Ryde system or should I use the existing springs? I’m just trying not to replace the perfectly good front axle. Thoughts are appreciated.

Not sure what the gain would be. You have a 7500# trailer. I'm betting your axels and spring pack are rated for at least 3500# each. Just enough axel for the trailer considering the tongue weight. I can only think if two reasons the axel lost camber. 1, it was defective and likely took a couple of years use to notice the problem. 2, the trailer was routinely overloaded. A heaver axel won't help strengthen the frame, tongue assembly etc.
I'm guessing your axels are made by Lippert. If so, they have a multi-year warranty. I'd give them a call with the serial number off the axel. Could save you a few $. At least you could discuss options with their tech support.
Here's some info that might be helpful:
https://support.lci1.com/spring-axles

Indy Steve · 06-24-2020, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonman

Not sure what the gain would be. You have a 7500# trailer. I'm betting your axels and spring pack are rated for at least 3500# each. Just enough axel for the trailer considering the tongue weight. I can only think if two reasons the axel lost camber. 1, it was defective and likely took a couple of years use to notice the problem. 2, the trailer was routinely overloaded. A heaver axel won't help strengthen the frame, tongue assembly etc.
I'm guessing your axels are made by Lippert. If so, they have a multi-year warranty. I'd give them a call with the serial number off the axel. Could save you a few $. At least you could discuss options with their tech support.
Here's some info that might be helpful:
https://support.lci1.com/spring-axles

Sorry, typo...311RES fifth wheel. Currently has 5200 axels on it. I have a CAT scale receipt that show I was not overloaded with being being packed up for a trip. The axels are Dexter.

Canonman · 06-24-2020, 04:08 PM

No problem, I have no experience with Dexter. I'd still recommend speaking with their customer support folks regarding an upgrade including the spring pack and possible warranty replacement.
Good Luck

busterbrown · 06-24-2020, 06:30 PM

On my 7600# GVWR trailer, I up-sized the OE 3500# axles to 5200#ers. I also up-sized the mono leaf springs to leaf 6 leaf spring packs and increased tire and wheel size to accommodate those suspension changes. The frame and axle shop recommended reinforcing the spring/equalizer hangers with cross members, similar to what's found on heavy duty dump trailers. The additional carrying capacity reserves on everything below the frame is peace of mind, especially when we're 2000 miles away from home. The catalyst for my upgrade was a broken leaf spring that had absolutely no reserves over the axle capacities.

As far as different sized axles on the same tandem axle trailer, I'm not sure I'd recommend that. The only difference is the hub and bearing sized. The axle tubes are the same.

CWtheMan · 06-24-2020, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Steve

Sorry, typo...311RES fifth wheel. Currently has 5200 axels on it. I have a CAT scale receipt that show I was not overloaded with being being packed up for a trip. The axels are Dexter.

Was the fresh water tank full?

What is your limiter that describes overloaded for you?

Northofu1 · 06-25-2020, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busterbrown

On my 7600# GVWR trailer, I up-sized the OE 3500# axles to 5200#ers. I also up-sized the mono leaf springs to leaf 6 leaf spring packs and increased tire and wheel size to accommodate those suspension changes. The frame and axle shop recommended reinforcing the spring/equalizer hangers with cross members, similar to what's found on heavy duty dump trailers. The additional carrying capacity reserves on everything below the frame is peace of mind, especially when we're 2000 miles away from home. The catalyst for my upgrade was a broken leaf spring that had absolutely no reserves over the axle capacities.

As far as different sized axles on the same tandem axle trailer, I'm not sure I'd recommend that. The only difference is the hub and bearing sized. The axle tubes are the same.

That was the same catalyst that had me trade my 26 RBPR in for the Cougar. I didn't feel like that was the trailer I wanted to spend that much money on. IMO you definitely did the right thing.

Dave W · 06-25-2020, 03:15 AM

There is one relatively inexpensive, easy fix but unfortunately will NOT 'fix' that MGW sticker on the side of the trailer.

Simply changing the outer bearing cup and race from LM67010/LM67048 to 15245/15123 will effectively move you up to a 6K axle, The inner bearing actually remains the same part number right through 8000 pounds. The spindle is the same and the hub's only difference is between 5.2K and 6K is that outer bearing. You also could add 6K springs as well. This is how I did the upgrade and yes, it works as our 5er no longer wallows over dips and bridge approaches nor will it bottom out any longer.

Unfortunately, Dexter/LCI have decided that bearings, not axle tube size make the difference between 5200 and 7000 pound capacity. They do offer a heavier tube wall 7K axle 2020 on, but I have yet to see the specs.

And before I get trolled by someone, I am well aware that, and I repeat, that the actual sticker weight max WILL NOT CHANGE but personal peace of mind will strongly increase.

notanlines · 06-25-2020, 04:36 AM

It would seem to me that Dave's idea would be well worth looking into. Tried and true, and he even furnished the part numbers.

**JRTJH** · 06-25-2020, 05:42 AM

When I lost a spindle/bearing/race at a campground entrance last summer, I "got a lifetime of axle education" over that weekend (still not an expert, but know much more than before that weekend). While spending far too much time at trailer supply houses, welding shops, axle repair shops and under the trailer trying to piece things back together, I found that 3500/4400/5000 pound axle tubes are the same and 6000/7000 pound axle tubes are the same. The difference is hub/brake assembly/bearing upgrades to support additional weight ratings.

As Dave suggested, upgrade the bearings and you'll have the same axle (doesn't change the GVW of the trailer) that you would have if you replaced the entire axle assembly. Why spend $400 on an axle when you can get the same result spending $40 on bearings and races...…

I also would be very, VERY concerned with only changing out one axle. They work as a pair and upgrading one will not help prevent future problems with the old, weaker axle. Replace them as a set, just as you'd replace tires as a set.

Dave W · 06-25-2020, 07:08 AM

5200 through 7000 pound tubes and spindle are the same. the 8K uses the same inner bearing as 5200 so suspect that even the spindles may be the same.

Oh and your axle will always have 5200 stamped on it regardless of which bearing you use. I have no clue why a 5200 pound axle is eve a listed and used part since the only difference is a few bucks for a bearing tho a few I have seen do have 5 lug, 15" wheels and C/D tires instead of 6 lug, 16" E rated tires and wheels

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