Brand new RV issues

[Pull Toy]

Maybe before we "go to the mattresses" over this...

IMHO the OP is being piled on for making the same mistake that a lot of us have made at some point in our purchasing experiences, be it a camper, car, truck, boat, used gym set, etc! Come on now.... it's 6 months old! He probably can fix it himself, but why should the selling dealer not be held to account. Even if the PDI was not done well, the pre-delivery setup and servicing by the dealer should have caught most of these problems

The dealer ultimately put a defective product in the hands of the consumer. As already mentioned, a lawyer would love to add "billable hours" KA-CHING! Maybe rather than going after corporate, a much less expensive, maybe free, alternative is your local BBB or "Channel (fill in the blank) is on your side Consumer segment". Good Sam has also been quite effective in litigating issues. Why? Maybe because Courtrooms don't generate publicity, A PUBLIC EXPOSURE does. Raise H*ll at the local level, the dealer will probably cave under the negative PR!

Good Luck,

[JRTJH]

The OP started the thread on 10/25/19 at 3:27PM, signed off immediately after posting (3:27PM) and has not returned to the forum. So...... Apparently either he's unable to log back onto the forum, isn't interested in what anyone has to say, was just "venting in public".... Or _____ (fill in the blank)...

Any way you look at it, he's not getting any information from us, good, bad, indifferent or ??????

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I personally don't think the manufacturers (or customers) are wanting better quality.

I agree Manufactures don't want better quality, and They will not improve until people quit buying their stuff or somebody starts holding their feet to the fire.

Customers DO want better quality. They want good quality at a reasonable price. As much as we pay for these things they could be much better.

I'm on camper #6, and the only reason I put with the horrible product they turn out is because I like camping so much.

To the OP - I wish there were lemon laws on RVs, just like Autos. Your surprise at poor quality is shared by a lot of 1st time RV owners. I have seen it on this forum and others from when I owned different brands. Your thoughts are very much justified.

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by Pull Toy

Raise H*ll at the local level, the dealer will probably cave under the negative PR!

Good Luck,

I recently had some luck by contacting Keystone and complaining that the dealer blew me off on a KeyTV issue. They called the dealer, and so far the dealer seems to have a different attitude. Hopefully they will follow thru.

[Northofu1]

Don't most companies start and operate on the "There's a sucker born every minute" rule?
I have no qualms tormenting sales people.

[CaptnJohn]

HHMMmm~~ of my last 3 Keystone products;

New 2015 Cougar~ furnace did not work 400 miles from home. Called Atwood and they provided a list of mobile techs they work with.

New 2017 Montana HC ~ 2 pieces of crown came loose and 1 piece of trim was cut short and had to be replaced.

New 2019 Montana zero so far but only used 60++ days over 3500 miles.

I'd say that is pretty good so far.

If the builders had decent help things would be better. The Amish are in a hurry to get the farm work done. Anyone breathing gets a job with no background check or drug test. I doubt more than 50% of the workforce give a damn about the product.

[judia]

Geez, folks are bashing anyone who doesn't work on their RV. Am a 73 year old woman and not gonna do it! Can't do it! And bought an RV so I didn't have to stay in hotels. Any new RV is going to have issues. I have a 2019 Bullet 243BHS, came with a few issues which my dealer fixed under warranty. No problems since. Think the key is to find a dealer with a good reputation and a great service department. And make nice, LOL.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by judia

Geez, folks are bashing anyone who doesn't work on their RV. Am a 73 year old woman and not gonna do it! Can't do it! And bought an RV so I didn't have to stay in hotels. Any new RV is going to have issues. I have a 2019 Bullet 243BHS, came with a few issues which my dealer fixed under warranty. No problems since. Think the key is to find a dealer with a good reputation and a great service department. And make nice, LOL.

Maam, Most of our diplomatic commentators jump into every thread with zeal and are not shy about giving their opinion. Most of these threads deteriorate into "when I was a lad story" and if someone does have a problem, the normal answer is "I don't have that problem on my trailer"! Helpful? Keep in mind the curmudgeon cabal on this and any forum is generally made up of the most knowledgeable hiding among folks who just like to hear themselves talk so don't be offended when the old boys start puffing and smoking! There is an occasional bit of worthwhile coming from this babbling which is generally induced by poor weather or the boredom of a retiree.

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Keep in mind the curmudgeon cabal on this and any forum is generally made up of the most knowledgeable hiding among folks who just like to hear themselves talk so don't be offended when the old boys start puffing and smoking!

^^^^^^ Yep !

[notanlines]

George, I'll have you know I resemble that comment. And Judia, I only do the bare necessities at 71. I spent 50 years of my life doing maintenance on my company equipment, fixing God only knows what. If the RV or truck needs brakes then I'll pay someone to put them on. My job is to drink beer, locate new trout and bluegill hot spots and bitch about cold weather (until November 18th).

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Maam, Most of our diplomatic commentators jump into every thread with zeal and are not shy about giving their opinion. Most of these threads deteriorate into "when I was a lad story" and if someone does have a problem, the normal answer is "I don't have that problem on my trailer"! Helpful? Keep in mind the curmudgeon cabal on this and any forum is generally made up of the most knowledgeable hiding among folks who just like to hear themselves talk so don't be offended when the old boys start puffing and smoking! There is an occasional bit of worthwhile coming from this babbling which is generally induced by poor weather or the boredom of a retiree.

I'm assuming you consider yourself one of those curmudgeon "commentators" that jump into every thread with zeal, not shy about giving your opinion, one of those that just "like to hear themselves talk" etc.??

[LewisB]

We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS that we purchased in May of 2019 - couldn't walk away from a rig we loved at a dealer we also loved. That said, there were some issues to deal with - but we expected that to be the case. I may be odd, but I actually enjoy testing everything, finding things I want to change/improve, making small repairs, etc. For me, it is part of the experience of RVing & camping.

Some people expect an RV to be built at the same level as an automobile. But cars & trucks are heavily regulated by DOT, NHTSA, States, etc. and the manufacturers build MILLIONS of units. In the last 5 years, new car sales have run between 15-17 million/year.

On the other hand, new RV sales have run about 355 thousand/year. The typical RV "manufacturer" is actually more of an RV "assembler" - they purchase parts from other manufacturers (frames, axles, suspension, tires/wheels, doors/doorways, ramps, windows, leveling systems, hatches/hatch openings, steps, appliances, electrical components, etc.); they might build the floor, walls, and ceiling and then take all of these 3rd party parts along with lots of pipes, wires, duct work etc. and "assemble" them into what we call an RV. They do all this in a very competitive industry using the least expensive labor possible in the shortest time frame imaginable. This doesn't always lead to the best quality control - but it DOES provide the consumer (like me) the opportunity to buy a very nice portable living space at a very affordable price!

It doesn't have to be this way! If you are looking for a trouble-free new RV and dealers who will support your every request, get out your first $350,000 (as a starting point - could stretch into $ millions depending on how picky you want to be) and buy one of the high end coaches. If you want a Ferrari or Rolls Royce, stop grumbling and pay the price.

For me, I'm happy with a Ford or Chevy and enjoy spending some of the weekend leaning over the hood setting the timing and changing the plugs!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by LewisB

We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS that we purchased in May of 2019 - couldn't walk away from a rig we loved at a dealer we also loved. That said, there were some issues to deal with - but we expected that to be the case. I may be odd, but I actually enjoy testing everything, finding things I want to change/improve, making small repairs, etc. For me, it is part of the experience of RVing & camping.

Some people expect an RV to be built at the same level as an automobile. But cars & trucks are heavily regulated by DOT, NHTSA, States, etc. and the manufacturers build MILLIONS of units. In the last 5 years, new car sales have run between 15-17 million/year.

On the other hand, new RV sales have run about 355 thousand/year. The typical RV "manufacturer" is actually more of an RV "assembler" - they purchase parts from other manufacturers (frames, axles, suspension, tires/wheels, doors/doorways, ramps, windows, leveling systems, hatches/hatch openings, steps, appliances, electrical components, etc.); they might build the floor, walls, and ceiling and then take all of these 3rd party parts along with lots of pipes, wires, duct work etc. and "assemble" them into what we call an RV. They do all this in a very competitive industry using the least expensive labor possible in the shortest time frame imaginable. This doesn't always lead to the best quality control - but it DOES provide the consumer (like me) the opportunity to buy a very nice portable living space at a very affordable price!

It doesn't have to be this way! If you are looking for a trouble-free new RV and dealers who will support your every request, get out your first $350,000 (as a starting point - could stretch into $ millions depending on how picky you want to be) and buy one of the high end coaches. If you want a Ferrari or Rolls Royce, stop grumbling and pay the price.

For me, I'm happy with a Ford or Chevy and enjoy spending some of the weekend leaning over the hood setting the timing and changing the plugs!

^^^^^Great post!! You get it and I'm loving it!!

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by LewisB

It doesn't have to be this way! If you are looking for a trouble-free new RV and dealers who will support your every request, get out your first $350,000 (as a starting point - could stretch into $ millions depending on how picky you want to be) and buy one of the high end coaches. If you want a Ferrari or Rolls Royce, stop grumbling and pay the price.

For me, I'm happy with a Ford or Chevy and enjoy spending some of the weekend leaning over the hood setting the timing and changing the plugs!

Which is exactly what Ford and Chevy thought until Honda and Toyota took them to the woodshed and taught them a lesson they would never forget. You can put out a quality product AND be competitive with price.

The RV industry will continue to put out crap as long as we buy it. And I'm just as guilty as the next guy. Like I said before, the only reason I put up with the crap they put out is because I love camping. It doesn't have to be this way. Price vs Quality is a false choice. We CAN have both.

[German Shepherd Guy]

Great thread. The OP now long gone. And some good points made all around
My very first, new out-of-the-box RV was purchased this time last year. Before that I had always purchased used from individuals. (think Craigs List)
Now, as some know, I breed and show German Shepherd Dogs (GSDs) all around the country. We have bred 17 litters over 25 years. It always amazes me that people do not do more research before coming to buy a puppy. A majority are ignorant of genetic problems and diseases and just what do they want a dog for and what job (yep, all dogs need jobs, even if that job is sitting in a lap getting petted) do they want the dog to do.
Brings us back to RVs. I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. I did in RVs what many puppy buyers do to us. I didn't know of the existence of a forum like this so of course didn't see or hear all the talk about TVs or quality control. Was not until after I bought it that John directed me to the buyers check list. I joined the list AFTER I had purchased. (Sooooo glad I did ) I did not project the defect I think about puppy buyers into my own situation in buying an RV and I think I am more typical of the majority than not. Now OP, after his initial experience, should have known better. And, thankfully, as a retired blacksmith, I am fairly handy and enjoy doing "projects". But not every one is and how would it feel to buy that new Truck and then have to spend hours every month cobbling together things to make it work?
(Makes me think of US cars from the late 60's/early 70's)
How to make first time buyers more aware of the issues of RV ownership? Forums like this are great, but how to reach people before they buy?
Thanks to all in this forum community , without you guys I would be like the disappearing OP, but instead here I am, " projecting" weekly on my brand new 26RBPR.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I'm assuming you consider yourself one of those curmudgeon "commentators" that jump into every thread with zeal, not shy about giving your opinion, one of those that just "like to hear themselves talk" etc.??

Moi? Just doing my best to balance the cosmic scales! Grumpy on one side and sarcastic on the other!

I liked the argument that the big 3 (chevy, ford and the other one) were quality nighmares until the Japanese came through with better cars that made the big 3 up their game. The problem with making this analogy fit the RV game is that there is no Japanese with a better product. For the most parts, the RV game is inbred in a small corner of Indiana along with their suppliers of junk frames, appliances and construction materials.

I predict that the RV industry will be a center of slip shod construction using somewhat poor quality components until the cows come home. I doubt RV owners will ever band together, pull out the torches and pitchforks and yell in unity for a change in product and quality control. It is what it is.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Moi? Just doing my best to balance the cosmic scales! Grumpy on one side and sarcastic on the other!

I liked the argument that the big 3 (chevy, ford and the other one) were quality nighmares until the Japanese came through with better cars that made the big 3 up their game. The problem with making this analogy fit the RV game is that there is no Japanese with a better product. For the most parts, the RV game is inbred in a small corner of Indiana along with their suppliers of junk frames, appliances and construction materials.

I predict that the RV industry will be a center of slip shod construction using somewhat poor quality components until the cows come home. I doubt RV owners will ever band together, pull out the torches and pitchforks and yell in unity for a change in product and quality control. It is what it is.

I'm afraid you're right and nothing is going to change it. With first time buyers packing the RV lots wanting an entry level trailer they can pull with the family minivan with a payment of $100 mo. or less, the current production standards and methods are not going to change simply because the consumer wants what is being produced. It is what it is and there is no "Japanese" cavalry coming over the hill.

[travelin texans]

Even if the foreign cavalry arrived building rvs it most likely would be like their autos, designed/built for a population their size that folks my size DO NOT fit in.

[JRTJH]

Think back to the original "early '70's Honda 600 later called the Civic", the Toyota Corolla and Datsun (before the days of Nissan)...

Back then, I couldn't "unfold" to get out of a Honda 600, the Corolla's dash literally disintegrated in the California desert sun and the seats in the Datsun were "steel tractor seat frames, covered with cheap foam and imitation Naugahyde that peeled off the cotton backing, usually before the car's 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty expired....

Those "great Japanese imports that turned the domestic auto industry on its collective head" were CRAP when they first came to the US. They were too small, built for the Japanese market and the primary reason they "estabilished a foothold here was cost. CHEAP, usually $1000 or more less than a Vega or a Pinto or Maverick. But, it wasn't until after they established a "cheap alternative to the junk built in Detroit" did they start improving.....

Imagine what the YUGO would have been had it improved the product, changed its name from Datsun to Nissan and increased the price to equal the Escort or Vega.....

[sourdough]

First Japanese cars I ever saw when they first came over, we all just laughed our tails off at what tiny, junky things they were. By 1972 I bought my first Toyota; a new Celica. Bought it because it didn't look like anything from the US and had so many multicolored gauges, lights and cool instrument layout. Kept it for a year. The seats were made for midgets, they were so narrow you didn't fit (and I was skinny back then)and the steering wheel was offset for some reason so you were twisted when you were driving??? They had at least really upped their quality by then and that 4 cylinder was so quiet and didn't leak a drop of anything anywhere.

So much for Japanese cars and their history in our car market. There is no such thing in, or coming to, the American RV market, and, who wants an RV made for a midget anyway??