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Old 06-28-2020, 02:54 PM   #21
blubuckaroo
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I've been following this thread because we I can see how important tire inflation is. My parents have had their travel trailer repaired twice because of damaged tires.
The issue I have with the systems I've seen is the sensor itself. They all seem to be mounted to the valve stem. That seems an odd place, and a bad place to monitor the tire's temperature.
Why aren't these sensors mounted inside the tire, as a part of the valve stem, like in an automotive application? The battery in those is designed to last around eight years.
I think the manufacturers of these things are could design something better for us.
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:22 PM   #22
Tireman9
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I like TireTraker and their Lifetime Warranty. Whatever you get you probably will want a repeater to get reliable signal. Do not buy from Amazon or ebay as you can't get any knowledgeable help no matter what brand you use. Be sure to learn how to properly program the low and High pressure settings based on YOUR tire pressures which are based on YOUR weights.
I have a blog post just on how I recommend you set your warning levels.
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:57 PM   #23
MarkEHansen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
I've been following this thread because we I can see how important tire inflation is. My parents have had their travel trailer repaired twice because of damaged tires.
The issue I have with the systems I've seen is the sensor itself. They all seem to be mounted to the valve stem. That seems an odd place, and a bad place to monitor the tire's temperature.
Why aren't these sensors mounted inside the tire, as a part of the valve stem, like in an automotive application? The battery in those is designed to last around eight years.
I think the manufacturers of these things are could design something better for us.

I use the EEZTire TPMS system which uses sensors mounted to the valve stems. The tire temperature I get from these sensors is completely adequate for the job - to watch for higher than normal temps as an indication of a pending failure. I can see the temps rise as I pull the trailer and even see the difference in temperature from the sunny side to the shady side. They work just fine.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:56 AM   #24
Tireman9
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I use the EEZTire TPMS system which uses sensors mounted to the valve stems. The tire temperature I get from these sensors is completely adequate for the job - to watch for higher than normal temps as an indication of a pending failure. I can see the temps rise as I pull the trailer and even see the difference in temperature from the sunny side to the shady side. They work just fine.

Glad you use TPMS. As a tire design engineer, I find the pressure numbers to be more meaningful than the temperature numbers as temperature can be different based on if you are traveling East i.e. Tires on passenger side are in the direct sun while driver side tires are in the shade.


I did a direct comparison test of Internal Temperature vs External Temperature TPMS reading with results published in my Blog
March 16, 2018

March 23, 2018


March 30, 2018

July 20, 2018

August 31, 2018

I have not seen or heard on anyone else doing this detailed of a comparison. Sorry but this forum does not allow me to post "hot links" to my blog so you will need to use Google.
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Old 06-29-2020, 05:45 AM   #25
blubuckaroo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Glad you use TPMS. As a tire design engineer, I find the pressure numbers to be more meaningful than the temperature numbers as temperature can be different based on if you are traveling East i.e. Tires on passenger side are in the direct sun while driver side tires are in the shade.


I did a direct comparison test of Internal Temperature vs External Temperature TPMS reading with results published in my Blog
March 16, 2018

March 23, 2018


March 30, 2018

July 20, 2018

August 31, 2018

I have not seen or heard on anyone else doing this detailed of a comparison. Sorry but this forum does not allow me to post "hot links" to my blog so you will need to use Google.
I just found that our trailer has a bent axle. The tire ended up worn badly and unevenly. I was told by the dealer repair shop that a tire pressure/temperature sensor would have probably alerted me, because that tire would have been much hotter than the others.

I still think the manufacturers are dropping the ball on this. The sensors need to be inside the tire. The sensors being outside the tire seems like a cheesy adaptor.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:11 AM   #26
JRTJH
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Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
I just found that our trailer has a bent axle. The tire ended up worn badly and unevenly. I was told by the dealer repair shop that a tire pressure/temperature sensor would have probably alerted me, because that tire would have been much hotter than the others.

I still think the manufacturers are dropping the ball on this. The sensors need to be inside the tire. The sensors being outside the tire seems like a cheesy adaptor.
It would be nice, but I don't know of any "reasonably priced TPMS" that is manufactured with internal sensors. All of the major brands use either flow through or end cap sensors. I'd suspect part of that is the limited range of internal sensors, the length of time tires are typically installed on trailers before being replaced (which is the only way to access the internal sensor to change a battery)… Remember, that many (maybe even most) RV owners don't change out tires at 3-5 years and I'd suspect that less than half even use a TPMS.

I wouldn't look to any RV manufacturer to increase the MSRP of their "comparably priced trailer" to go higher than the competition with a device that few people even know exists. Truck manufacturers are now offering a "limited version of the trailer TPMS" as an option. That option, at least for Ford, is bundled in an expensive towing package and doesn't even monitor temperature, just pressure. Yes, it also uses "outside sensors".

Just my opinion, but I suspect the reason a more sophisticated TPMS with internal sensors isn't available is because the market research doesn't support building it. Everything these days seems to be about "how much can we profit" not "how can we improve service for the customer"....
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:24 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Glad you use TPMS. As a tire design engineer, I find the pressure numbers to be more meaningful than the temperature numbers as temperature can be different based on if you are traveling East i.e. Tires on passenger side are in the direct sun while driver side tires are in the shade.


I did a direct comparison test of Internal Temperature vs External Temperature TPMS reading with results published in my Blog
March 16, 2018

March 23, 2018


March 30, 2018

July 20, 2018

August 31, 2018

I have not seen or heard on anyone else doing this detailed of a comparison. Sorry but this forum does not allow me to post "hot links" to my blog so you will need to use Google.
I haven't looked at your blog but have a to question the lack of value you place on temperature. While it is true that temps will vary from side to side however; they should not vary by any great amount between from and rear axle.

As blubuckaroo pointed out, a dragging tire, whether from a bent spindle, bent axle, seized bearing, or locked up brake assembly will build heat rapidly.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:07 AM   #28
Tireman9
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
It would be nice, but I don't know of any "reasonably priced TPMS" that is manufactured with internal sensors. All of the major brands use either flow through or end cap sensors. I'd suspect part of that is the limited range of internal sensors, the length of time tires are typically installed on trailers before being replaced (which is the only way to access the internal sensor to change a battery)… Remember, that many (maybe even most) RV owners don't change out tires at 3-5 years and I'd suspect that less than half even use a TPMS.

I wouldn't look to any RV manufacturer to increase the MSRP of their "comparably priced trailer" to go higher than the competition with a device that few people even know exists. Truck manufacturers are now offering a "limited version of the trailer TPMS" as an option. That option, at least for Ford, is bundled in an expensive towing package and doesn't even monitor temperature, just pressure. Yes, it also uses "outside sensors".

Just my opinion, but I suspect the reason a more sophisticated TPMS with internal sensors isn't available is because the market research doesn't support building it. Everything these days seems to be about "how much can we profit" not "how can we improve service for the customer"....

Internal sensor is available and was part of my comparison. One thing to remember that with internal sensor you still need dismount the tire to replace the batteries.
Yes RV companies are not going to offer this for a couple of reasons. Initial cost. we see the lack of quality in RV construction so the company can cut costs. Also once installed the batteries are getting older. Also not all buyers understand the value of TPMS.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:38 AM   #29
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I haven't looked at your blog but have a to question the lack of value you place on temperature. While it is true that temps will vary from side to side however; they should not vary by any great amount between from and rear axle.

As blubuckaroo pointed out, a dragging tire, whether from a bent spindle, bent axle, seized bearing, or locked up brake assembly will build heat rapidly.

Assuming a tire was being dragged would generate heat but at the tire tread surface. Rubber is a good insulator so the heat at the tread surface would not be transferred quickly enough to be of value.


As shown in my posts external sensors are cooled by external air and internal sensors, mounted in the well of the wheel are actually reporting the temperature of the wheel.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:09 AM   #30
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Internal sensor is available and was part of my comparison. One thing to remember that with internal sensor you still need dismount the tire to replace the batteries.
Yes RV companies are not going to offer this for a couple of reasons. Initial cost. we see the lack of quality in RV construction so the company can cut costs. Also once installed the batteries are getting older. Also not all buyers understand the value of TPMS.
Do you have links to any "trailer use TPMS with internal sensors? I haven't found any that have the range needed for RV use.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:21 AM   #31
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Assuming a tire was being dragged would generate heat but at the tire tread surface. Rubber is a good insulator so the heat at the tread surface would not be transferred quickly enough to be of value.


As shown in my posts external sensors are cooled by external air and internal sensors, mounted in the well of the wheel are actually reporting the temperature of the wheel.
M what about the belts shifting separating? I can't think the sensor would be air cooled by a great margin because it's being cooled by the external air. By that logic, should the "in the sun, in the shade" readings not be indiscernible?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just wrapping my Logic based brain around it.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:29 AM   #32
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Do you have links to any "trailer use TPMS with internal sensors? I haven't found any that have the range needed for RV use.
This is one of the very few I've seen that advertise the distance needed for a trailer. There are no reviews so I wouldn't go thru the expense or effort to be a guinea pig. https://www.tirerack.com/accessories...market+Systems
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:15 AM   #33
Tireman9
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
M what about the belts shifting separating? I can't think the sensor would be air cooled by a great margin because it's being cooled by the external air. By that logic, should the "in the sun, in the shade" readings not be indiscernible?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just wrapping my Logic based brain around it.



In sun vs in shade temperature rise in tires can be seen over a span of 10 to 20 minutes and you can see about +40°F depending on level of sunlight.


A Belt separation (not really shifting as then in general do not move sideways" which can be seen in my post of
August 12, 2014 on "How I Inspect my Tires"

shows the air gap in a tire structure. This gap would be additional insulation between the tread surface and the interior air chamber of a tire.




External air cooling data is posted in my post on TPMS comparison.


Sorry to not be riposting all my data but it is all there for anyone to see. Forum rules prohibit me from posting the direct link. A few years ago I was banned from one forum because I started posting my own blog post information on their forum so I'm not going to do that here and get banned unless that is what you want to happen to me.


I know of no one who has done a multi month direct comparison of TPMS from two different companies or provided data on temperature or pressure accuracy. If you don't want to accept my word and you want the data please just go and read it yourself.


Maybe it's best if I gust stop trying to provide accurate information.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:39 PM   #34
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Do you have links to any "trailer use TPMS with internal sensors? I haven't found any that have the range needed for RV use.

I do not believe anyone can provide hard numbers on distance asa we are talking about low power radio frequency. Some RV have metal floor & body which require stronger signal than wood & fiberglass.


I have found the people at TireTraker.com to rather well versed with the needs after listening to them presnt information and talk with customers at their booth.
but given that a 40' Class A probably has comparable distance to a RV trailer and pickup there I think it reasonable to plan on installing a "repeater" at the front of the RV posered by 12v when driving. That would put the transmit distance to the 25' or so from the front of the tailer to your monitor on your dash.




RE Internal TST makes an internal system. I did a direct comparison of Traker external vs TST internal as part of my TPMS test and comparison.


There are a number of posts that cover the year long comparison test.


Hope this helps.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:10 PM   #35
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I have been using TST systems for 12 years and think they are the best. My 2 cousins have used Tire Minder and did not like it and went to TST and are very happy with the results.
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