Soft floor 2017 Bullet 308BHS - near front door

[Johan]

I have a Bullet 308BHS with the same soft spot, discovered today. The area that is soft is about4-5 ft wide and 1 to 1.25 ft deep when I stand looking into the front door.
I am leaving on vacation in 2 days, so I have to fix it myself.
I removed/cut the plastic liner/layer are removed the soggy pretend-wood, the polystyrene and the next layer of fake wood up to the vinyl flooring.
Going to put pressure treated wood in there for better support than the foam.


Fixing is not the problem, however, where did the water come in ??



It looks fine around the front door and front window, but the soft spot is centered around the rightmost side of the door, the side with the hinges.
Any tips on where I can apply extra sealant to not let this happen again ?

[busterbrown]

I also own a 2017 308BHS. None of the entry or perimeter flooring is soft. I check it very regularly. I have read that the passthrough frame screws on some of the Bullets were installed on the outside of the weather seal. That has cause water to cascade down to the flooring below the master bedroom (passenger side) window and towards the main entry door.

I'd also look at the weather seal on the entry door itself and make sure the bottom threshold is doing it's job.

Also, inspect the roof seams along the gutter as they tend to show premature cracking in the membrane as it folds down in that channel. I've already applied Dicor non-sag sealant around the entire perimeter. Cracked sealant of TPO membrane could allow water to run down between the filon and interior wall and collect on the entry way flooring. It's worth a shot investigating.

Let us know what you find. The 2018-2020 Bullets are plagued with the dreaded "slam latch" debacle. I'm not sure if your coach was equipped with them. Mine isn't.

Good luck.

[WHEELPDLR]

Wow thanks for this post i sure wish you were in mississippi, i have a 15 outback 4 ft soft spot in middle of living area and a soft spot at each entry door, you almost giving me the courage to fix it myself, i have decided to try to sell it reduce the price take my whipping and never return to keystone. Great post gives people the courage to try to fix it, i was curious when you cut the flooring up did you pull it up in layers to you could see the floor or just cut thru to the bottom?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by WHEELPDLR

Wow thanks for this post i sure wish you were in mississippi, i have a 15 outback 4 ft soft spot in middle of living area and a soft spot at each entry door, you almost giving me the courage to fix it myself, i have decided to try to sell it reduce the price take my whipping and never return to keystone. Great post gives people the courage to try to fix it, i was curious when you cut the flooring up did you pull it up in layers to you could see the floor or just cut thru to the bottom?

DON'T JUST CUT THROUGH TO THE BOTTOM !!!!!!!!!

There's a very good chance that if you do, you'll damage the floor joists under the top layer of flooring. The "sandwich floor" is built with the aluminum floor joists INSIDE the structure, topped by 1/4" luan sheeting and 1/8" luan (or maybe composite paper or plastic bottom sheeting.

Cutting through to the bottom will destroy your floor framing.

[WHEELPDLR]

So just peel off the flooring tile then what take a blade and cut into the soft stuff till you can see the braces its attached to ? Look guys i cant put a nail in a piece of wood thanks for the help type it slow so i can get it ha.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by WHEELPDLR

So just peel off the flooring tile then what take a blade and cut into the soft stuff till you can see the braces its attached to ? Look guys i cant put a nail in a piece of wood thanks for the help type it slow so i can get it ha.

Some people "just need a bit of on-site help" with projects for which they have a knowledge deficit....

Notice I didn't say "don't do it" or "don't try" I said get some "ON-SITE help"... Find someone, a friend or relative, who is competent in putting a nail in a piece of wood and ask them to help. If you aren't familiar with travel trailer construction, spend LOTS of time studying trailer brochures, paying particular attention to that one diagram toward the middle of every brochure that shows the "peeled back construction" with a lot of numbered circles. Go to every number in the diagram and read how it describes that feature. Blow the figure up so it's large enough to really see how all those things are "stacked together to make a trailer"...

Don't just cut through the top layer, the bottom layer, or even remove the vinyl flooring, until you understand what is under it.

Just cutting through the top layer, might be OK if you're using a razor knife, but using a jig saw or a circular saw with the blade nearly retracted, can be a sure bet to cut the tops off every one of those aluminum tubes that make up the floor joists....

There's no way anyone can "type enough information in a forum post" to teach you how to start from scratch to rebuild a travel trailer floor.....

Take a look at the threads on this forum that you can find with a forum search for topics like "floor repair" or "floor replacement"... Many of them have detailed photos of how a member repaired his floor, most with photos showing what the structure looked like as they "peeled back the layers"....

Spend some time preparing and learning. I really don't think this thread could possibly "teach a novice in a few posts" how to remove, repair and replace a rotted travel trailer floor.

This isn't intended to discourage you, but rather to warn you that, as a novice with a difficulty level capacity of 1 wrench, this type project is a difficulty level of 5 or 6 or, in some really bad situations, a level of 9 or 10 wrenches.... Don't bite off more than you can chew.

[tdbohannon]

Curious to hear about your floor repair method. I’m deep in my bathroom floor right now due to a toilet seal leak

[Johan]

To tdbohannon:
Here is a photo of the 2x10 that I cut into proper lengths. I removed the polystyrene and inserted the pressure treated wood. I drilled holes to act as weep holes, this way at least it would drain to the bottom if it gets into the TOP layers, which it does, and I for the life of me, cannot find the leak.


To busterbrown:
I sealed on the outside, but the door and window looks fine. I attach a photo of how it looks on the inside, when I removed the flashing around the door. The door seals well and there is not water coming in through there, however, water seeps to where the drill bit is pointing.


When I look underneath, you can see the rusty bolt. The flooring above it is wet, right in line with that bolt.
On the inside, that is where the water is also collecting,even after a little bit of rain as today.

[Johan]

I looked at thee locations in addition to around the door and window.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593469088


Location 1
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593469088


Location 2
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593469088


Do not see how the water can enter to the inside to the top of the floor.

[Johan]

Hi busterbrown


You mentioned:
"Cracked sealant of TPO membrane could allow water to run down between the filon and interior wall and collect on the entry way flooring"


Few questions.
What is the TPO membrane.
What is filon, is that the outer wall ?

[Roose17]

This wont help with your repair or answer your question but I would reach out to Keystone. Sounds like a poor answer but here is why I suggest it. The Passports and Bullets have eerily similar issues with water near the hinge side of the entry door. They must know the cause. This thread (https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...d.php?p=364908) helped me in learning how prevalent the issue is among Keystone owners. I am in the same boat where I sealed every seam but I could not stop nor find the water source. My dealer would not fix it and suggested I contact Keystone immediately because they also said "this is a known issue". (Keystone is doing the repair under warranty) They have not shared the root cause with me as of yet, but hopefully they will help you identify how to seal it.


If you have not done so already, I also suggest feeling the underside of the trailer for any soft spots or bubbles. From inside the trailer the only soft spot was just right of the entry door but once I felt the Darcor underneath I found floor damage under the front baggage doors, and all along the back wall. Those areas showed no signs of damage from above.

[Johan]

So far it seems this is the only spot, around the hinge side of the door.
2 feet to the right and 2 feet to the left.

[08quadram]

I believe it is the door and frame that is the issue. My 2019 leaked and there were small gaps in the door construction. I believe it got into the floor through the sill by the joint where it meets the jamb. The photo is the bottom hinge side of my front door. The door is constructed differently on my 2020.

[Johan]

Hi. As far as I know, it should be ok if water gets into the door frame, since it has weep holes at the bottom.
But yes, that is assuming that the jamb seals properly against the sill.
Mine did not, or at least I think it did not, because the jamb would move a bit if the door was sprung open, basically breaking the seal.
I inserted a screw from inside and that made all the difference for movement.
Then I sealed the jamb to the sill.
I think it still gets wet though (we will see tomorrow if it rains again or I apply water).
Also, it does not get wet between the sill (where the arrow is pointing) and to the left. It gets wet to where the drill tip is pointing. However, it could be that it comes from the jamb/sill leak, flows down unto the plastic layer, then seeps to the left.
What is interesting is that the panel (next to the elongated hole I drilled) gets wet, from where it touches the floor and up for a bit (4-5 inches) - capillary action perhaps ?

[Johan]

Last night and this morning it mist rains. There is just a little bit of drip from the gutter. There is not not enough rain to make the gutter overflow.
The inside was dry last night (because of the de-humidifier running) so it was ideal to check.
It got wet again. It's as if the panel next to the door soaked up some water again. I know for a fact it did not come via the door, door frame, window or window frame.
Inspecting the camper, I hardly get wet because of how light mist the rain is.
So I got up on the ladder to see if there is water collecting anywhere.
In the picture below is the only standing pool of water I could see. This is the front right of the camper (side with main entrance door)
The storage cabinet under the bed is bone dry, and the floor of the storage cabinet is dry as well ?? So if its coming from the roof at that spot, how would it go down, go towards the door, not making anything else wet and only affect around the entrance area and 1 foot into the bedroom ?

[JRTJH]

One potential source of water intrusion that hasn't been identified yet in this thread (although Johan was close with #2 in a post) is the awning rail. When the trailer was manufactured, the awning rail was installed with clay/butyl putty tape behind it. During the years since, every time the awning is open and the wind "bucks or billows the awning" the fabric pulls on that awning rail. It doesn't take much to loosen the screws holding it in place and once there's a "little separation between the FILON and the awning rail, there's a "direct path for leaks into the FILON and luan backing. Once the luan gets wet, like a sponge, it wicks straight down to the floor.

So, get on a ladder, check the top of the awning rail for sealant, if you see clay putty tape, consider removing the entire awning rail to replace with butyl putty tape and check all the screws for evidence of rust and to be sure they're tight.

[Johan]

It appears the gutter and the narrow c-channel into which the awning slides, are all part of the same aluminium profile.
Not sure how the rubber material from the roof attaches to it?

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593521377


The messy spray-job (Flex Seal Spray) is what I did earlier today while it was still wet and raining lightly, trying to see if it makes a difference.
Will redo it on a sunny day if it makes a difference, and then it will dry better and I can take my time.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593531941

[Johan]

So basically I am saying, I do not think I can take off the awning rail (since it's not a separate rail). Doing that will remove the gutter and loosen the rubber roof material stretched over the top.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Johan

It appears the gutter and the narrow c-channel into which the awning slides, are all part of the same aluminium profile.
Not sure how the rubber material from the roof attaches to it?

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593521377


The messy spray-job (Flex Seal Spray) is what I did earlier today while it was still wet and raining lightly, trying to see if it makes a difference.
Will redo it on a sunny day if it makes a difference, and then it will dry better and I can take my time.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...1&d=1593531941

Flex Seal Spray is NOT an approved TPO seam sealant. Using it will probably void your Alpha Systems warranty on the TPO membrane. I've used Flex Seal on a number of "around the house seal jobs" like the rain gutters, the vinyl siding gaps, surface cracks in the concrete foundation. In every case, the Flex Seal either didn't stop the leak or fell away/didn't adhere to the siding or concrete. I'd call it an inferior product for TPO roofing and I wouldn't use it on my trailer, even in an emergency... YMMV.

If I were you, I'd clean the Flex Seal off the TPO, use either DICOR sealant or Alpha Systems sealant which are specifically formulated to adhere to and seal the TPO material.

[flybouy]

"how would it go down, and only affect around the entrance area ?"

Water, like electricity, air, and a kid in college, will take the path of least resistance. A roof leak can drip feet away from it's entry point if it runs along the sheathing or rafter.. If water is flowing inside a wall gravity will pull it straight down until it encounters an obstruction. Then it would pool until it gets to a level where there's another path down. Think of those glass walled ant farms where they tunnel in different directions.