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Old 02-17-2021, 11:33 AM   #21
CWtheMan
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Special Trailer Tires

There is much more to consider before condemning a brand name and where it was built.

The RV tailoring industry has always known the axles, even singles, have a high tendency of not being balanced. You can have axles that are not overloading their GAWR but can have one end carrying much more weight than the other end. For many years, trailer builders were using tires that barely met the minimum requirements for the GAWRs. Unlike the automotive industry, trailer tires are not required to have any load capacity reserves. The responsibility to keep the loads on those tires below minimums was (and still is) placed right on the shoulders of the vehicle owners. When an owner does not insure their trailer’s tires are not over loaded or correctly inflated they are going to suffer with failures, some more catastrophic than others. OEM tire provider’s brands took a beating in forum antidotal feedback. It has to be the tire, right? Lots of others with the same brand name have also failed. Carlisle, GY Marathon, TowMax, and numerous other brands were labeled as being inferior to other brand names because they were failing so often. GY rebuilt their Marathons and then used their China plant to build the new ones. Failure rates for them remained the same. They brought them back to a USA plant, failures continued. When those name brands were failing some just changed their names and we got Castle Rock & Trailer King.

Trailer owners were replacing their failed tires with other brands and adding some much needed load capacity reserves. Failures fell off. Those replacements got accolades for being better and not failing. It was a very unfair result for the tires that failed due to being overloaded.

Another problem that was (is) common and probably has caused a number of failures is the axle loads. Some owners do not know that the trailer manufacturer gets to set GAWRs. Those GAWRs can be lower than the axle manufacturer’s certification. In short, the trailer manufacturer can fit 5200# axles to a trailer and set the GAWRs to 5080# for tire loads. A trailer owner that has checked the axle certification but not the vehicle certification would probably accept a scaled load reading at 5200# as acceptable when in fact it would be 120# overloaded. This happened quite frequently with 7000# axles. A ST235/80R16 LRE tire with a maximum load capacity of 3420# does not qualify for service on 7000# axles but the same designated size by another brand may have a 3520# maximum load capacity that would qualify it for service on vehicle certified 7000# GAWR axles. So, trailer manufacturers set those 7000# axles at an average of 6750# to insure all tires in that designated size could be installed. The problem existed for at least three years and resulted in numerous NHTSA recalls for invalid vehicle certification labels. NHTSA and the vehicle manufacturers got the paperwork straightened out but the axles were still de-rated. Today with the RVIA 10% reserve load capacity enacted the RST LT235/85R16 LRG with its maximum load capacity of 3750# does not qualify for service on 7000# axles. Hello ST steel cased tires.

Those that keep current with RV trailer tire failures can already see the advantage of having load capacity reserves with OE tires. The owner failure reports are dropping off and more in line with naturally caused failures.

(That's probably 5 cents worth).
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:18 AM   #22
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I purchased a new 2018 Cougar 30RLS and the first year I purchased Goodyear Endurance tires after reading the horror stories about my stock Trailer King tires and the good reviews of the GE tires. Either you are the smartest guy here and know more about this than almost everyone on the forums, or the XXXXXXX guy here. I know I sleep better with my GE tires.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:30 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dutchmensport View Post
I don't have logical input at all. I was over the barrel when a blow out happen to me a couple years ago. Because we were traveling, and absolutely could not locate anywhere that had tires for my Montana fifth wheel, I ended up locating a semi-truck tire shop. Guess what I got on my trailer? Yep, about $275 a tire for commercial trailers. 14 ply, and heavy as a boat anchor. I replaced all 4. I never want another blow-out again!
Did the same on my Cougar 31SQB.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BookPaul74 View Post
I’m new to this trailer towing thing, I purchased my first one in 1973. I’ve also spent 15 years driving semis, thank God I didn’t have to pay for the maintenance. Needless to say I’ve had quite a bit of experience with tires.

BTW I just thought I could share MY experience with tires because I too was surprised at the performance of the last two sets on two different fifth wheels in the 13,000# category.



I bet you were one of the guys who bought cheap re-treads because hell they are the same as a new tire. Then you proceeded to leave that tire on the highway on a hot summer day so every other car/truck had to dodge or hit it.

Your logic is flawed because 2 of your tires were Goodyear ST and for all you know they were carrying more weight then the TK tires. Most likely that is true since you said the goodyears are worn more the the original TK yet they are newer.



I dont see how a few extra dollars are worth it when your life, your family's life and anyone driving around you relay on those tires not blowing up. Having a RV is not a cheap thing, and buying cheap never pays in the end. I hope your decision does pays off and it does not come to bite you or anyone else on the road.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:09 AM   #25
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BookPaul74, You are a grown adult and have the right to install any tire on your camper you like. Not sure why everyone feels the need to scold members who make decisions contrary to popular wisdom. Just follow up in a couple years and let us know how things turned out. I am afraid I have gone contrary myself in the past and probably didn't mention it due to conventional wisdom gurus tendency to scold. Have a great camping season!
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
BookPaul74, You are a grown adult and have the right to install any tire on your camper you like. Not sure why everyone feels the need to scold members who make decisions contrary to popular wisdom. Just follow up in a couple years and let us know how things turned out. I am afraid I have gone contrary myself in the past and probably didn't mention it due to conventional wisdom gurus tendency to scold. Have a great camping season!
Brand names are not a consideration for the vehicle manufacturer. The large ones like Keystone normally have a rock solid agreement with an OEM provider. The OEM provider is going to buy large lots of tires at the least market price. Designated tire sizes have their loads and PSI values standardized by TRA. Basically that means a ST225/75R15 form Castle Rock is equal, specification wise, to a GY Endurance of the same designated size.

Across the board, consumers are prone to use tires they are familiar and are happy with their service life/durability. I stay away from brands. It's just two difficult to persuade a consumer that a Good Ride or Black Lion is as good as a Trailer King.

I try to avoid, at all cost, recommending anything that is clearly a misapplication. The ST tire market has evolved very quickly with new designated sized having added load ranges. In most cases now days there is no reason what so ever for a consumer to change designated sizes. For instance, in the past the ST235/80R16 could only provide tires with a maximum load range of "E". Today LRF & LRG are available. Same thing with the very popular ST225/75R15. They now have all load ranges from "C" to "G".

The RV trailer owner, especially new ones, often compare their tire usage with automotive tire usage. In many instances, the rules are quite different and differently applied by vehicle manufacturers.

The hardest thing to get across to an RV owner is how to properly inflate, maintain and replace their tires. Without a list of options from the manufacturer of a trailer, the Original Equipment tire size will dictate all replacement tire sizes. It's the way the industry is structured. Rules are written, applied and maintained. Deviations from those standards places the decision for the deviation right on the shoulders of whoever decided to make the deviation.

I don't can my responses to an OP. If they are operating out of the ballpark my answers will be inside the ballpark. My facts are almost always substantiated by industry rules and standards from a written source.

So, we get about 90% of our ST tires from China manufacturers. What's a "China Bomb" and how was it validated?
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:24 PM   #27
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I believe Trailer King tires picked up the "china bomb" moniker because they are the most common brand on many new Keystone trailers and hence will have the most blow outs; without respect to inflation and maintenance consideration. If Keystone put brand XYZ on most if its campers, these would likely become the new "china bomb". There have been many stories about Trailer Kings blowing out and ruining fender wells but is that because they are the Keystone OEM go to tire in many cases or are they a jinxed brand. I don't know and look forward to the OP's continued reporting on his choice.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:27 PM   #28
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I bet you were one of the guys who bought cheap re-treads because hell they are the same as a new tire. Then you proceeded to leave that tire on the highway on a hot summer day so every other car/truck had to dodge or hit it.

Your logic is flawed because 2 of your tires were Goodyear ST and for all you know they were carrying more weight then the TK tires. Most likely that is true since you said the goodyears are worn more the the original TK yet they are newer.



I dont see how a few extra dollars are worth it when your life, your family's life and anyone driving around you relay on those tires not blowing up. Having a RV is not a cheap thing, and buying cheap never pays in the end. I hope your decision does pays off and it does not come to bite you or anyone else on the road.
Big assumption, I’ve NEVER bought a retreaded tire in my life.

And another big assumption is that the Goodyear’s wore out in half the time of the original tires because they are over loaded.

So how do you explain that the original tires from 3913 out lasted the tires from 4318? My assumption is that they are inferior to the original equipment tire. I guess time will tell.

BTW I’ve lost tires on both the pickup and trailer and have NEVER lost control of either. I had a Michelin front tire (steer) fail on the truck in early November, no loss of control.

And in 14+ years of trucking I lost two steer tires , at speed and again no loss of control.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:34 PM   #29
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Just wondering if people refer to all these brands as “China Booms”?

Things evolve , I can remember all the problems with the early Honda 600’s and how bad their quality was in body and engine. Now look at them.
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:01 PM   #30
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Paul, I'm afraid you are doing little to bring yourself out on top in this discussion. I would hope that you would not compare a steer-axle blowout with a drive axle blowout. On-load you have little to no control. Number two you have given us a list of brands made by one manufacturer. Are we to assume all these brands are equal? Towmax vs. Sailun? I would certainly hope not.
Because of the discussion we have all had on this thread one thing is certain: You for sure, and hopefully dozens of other Trailer King owners will watch very, very carefully the condition, pressure and wear of their tires. In your case, every time you glace at them in the drive or while camping this discussion will come to the forefront of your mind. And yes, we really do want to hear about them three years from now.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:50 PM   #31
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There have been numerous ST tire failure forerunners. All of them had something in common; they were installed as Original Equipment by RV trailer manufacturers. They were installed with very little, if any, load capacity reserves.

Going back to the Keystone 2003 to 2006 years, it was GY Marathons, Mission LT and Uniroyal LT. TowMax was next, followed again by the GY Marathon from China. Then Carlisle got in the picture. Back then the go to replacement was Maxxis.

Up until 2015, OEM tires such as Castle Rock (Forest River), GY Marathon (Airstream) and Trailer King (Keystone) were failing more frequently than most other brands.

Now the OE tires have at least 10% in load capacity reserves and the failure complaints are falling-off for all brands.

Before RIVA recommended 10% in load capacity reserves above vehicle certified GAWRs; the popular designated size, ST235/80R16 LRE were commonly found on 7000# Axles. Because the GY tires did not qualify a dilemma was born. One of the FMVSS standards says that when more than one load capacity is found on tires of the same designated size and load range, all will default to the lowest value (3420#), meaning none would qualify for vehicle certified 7000# GAWRs. All of the major builders of trailers with OE 7000# certified axles got certification label recalls. There was a simple solution, redesignate the 7000# axles to a value that would allow the use on any of those tires. I do 2-3 large RV shows per year. I take lots of pictures. Certification labels are close to the top of the list. Because RV trailer manufacturers have the authority to set GAWRs, that’s just what they did. In the certification label below you will see the use of the ST235/80R16 LRE tires being used on axles certified to have 6750# of load capacity.

Hypothetical, probably true on occasions: A consumer with a new trailer having 7000# axles looks at the axle manufacturers certification label on the trailer's axles; yup, 7000#, and proceeded to load to 7000# unknowing it may cause the OE tires to be overloaded because the vehicle certification is 6750# and that was the value used during vehicle certification.

Bottom line to all my talk; read and comply with the vehicle owner’s manual. The trailer builder is required to provide one with all new vehicles. A high percentage of the information in the owner’s manual is mandated to be there by NHTSA.

Example; NHTSA says; To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle's original tires or another size recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Check your owner's manual or the Tire and Loading Information Label located on the driver's side door edge or post to find the correct size for your car or truck

Keystone owner’s manual says; To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the tire dealer.

GY Marathon/Endurance ST235/80R16 LRE 3420# @ 80 PSI
Kenda Karrier ST235/80R16 LRE 3500# @ 80 PSI
Carlisle Radial Trail RH ST235/80R16 LRE 3520# @ 80 PSI.

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The example above is just a small drop in the bucket for such actions with almost all ST tire designated sizes. So, it's really hard to pinpoint the real culprit in the China Bomb syndrome.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:11 PM   #32
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BookPaul74, You are a grown adult and have the right to install any tire on your camper you like. Not sure why everyone feels the need to scold members who make decisions contrary to popular wisdom. Just follow up in a couple years and let us know how things turned out. I am afraid I have gone contrary myself in the past and probably didn't mention it due to conventional wisdom gurus tendency to scold. Have a great camping season!
I figured it would stir the pot but figured there were other “closet” China Bomb” tire buyer’s.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:15 PM   #33
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I think it is impossible to "pinpoint" the China Bomb syndrome; there are too many contributors to place it on one thing. Consider;

We all drive down the highways and watch "those guys" hauling way too much way too fast - not a care in the world. All those folks that never even look at their trailer tires and just "take off" and be what it may; low tires, overloaded. Then we have the old RVIA standards that offered NO reserve tire capacity for the load. IMO the allowed tire load designations were dangerous. Of course Keystone then designated Trailer King tires for their RVs. Then we have the "other" culprit; China and/or Chinese plants, tire construction, quality control/oversight etc.

Many fingers pointing many directions. How do you dig through all that and pinpoint a single culprit? You don't/can't. What can you do to make a knowledgeable, safe decision for yourself and family? KISS...keep it simple. Lots of variables in the above scenarios but if anyone believes the Chinese make state of the art anything, or professes that their products don't have "failures" or they have top notch quality control...well.

If we take the failures and then point them to a particular plant in a particular province (remember that China has over 900 tire manufacturing plants) and we see visual evidence from many owners of internal failures from the plant hmmmm. On top of that if you just take a TK tire of any size and place it next to a similar tire from a quality manufacturer and weigh them...astounding difference. Plus we know that some manufacturers demand very strict oversight over their products and some not. Now is that enough to "pinpoint exactly" why a China Bomb exists? Maybe, maybe not. For me, after a 7k blowout it's enough - saving a hundred bucks on a set of tires to cut corners just doesn't work for me. JMO/YMMV
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:15 PM   #34
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Paul, I'm afraid you are doing little to bring yourself out on top in this discussion. I would hope that you would not compare a steer-axle blowout with a drive axle blowout. On-load you have little to no control. Number two you have given us a list of brands made by one manufacturer. Are we to assume all these brands are equal? Towmax vs. Sailun? I would certainly hope not.
Because of the discussion we have all had on this thread one thing is certain: You for sure, and hopefully dozens of other Trailer King owners will watch very, very carefully the condition, pressure and wear of their tires. In your case, every time you glace at them in the drive or while camping this discussion will come to the forefront of your mind. And yes, we really do want to hear about them three years from now.
I’ve had both on semis. That’s the reason I have a dually truck for hauling heavy loads. That’s was kind of the point of this thread was to have that discussion. 👍
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:33 PM   #35
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Because there's a shortage of tire threads
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Old 02-25-2021, 07:51 PM   #36
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I ordered 5 new Trailer King RST tires for my new to me Cougar. The reason I did was the tires on it where a mix of two brands. It had two of the TK with a date code of 3913 and the spare is the same but had never been on the ground. It had two Goodyear ST tires with a date code of 2218. Both were worn down to about 4/32 of tread left.

When I purchased it in August of 2020 I was told that they had replaced the tires two years ago. I figured they had replaced two tires. So it’s apparent that the original tires out lasted the Goodyear’s. I figure to stick with what worked. I thought of going to the 12 ply over the 10 ply but decided to stay with the original. A little tire shop tried to talk me into 14 ply but besides the cost and needing to replace the wheels I figured the sidewall would have almost no flex.

I did order 5 tires so I could replace the 7 or 8 year old spare but FedEx decide to loose one so I waiting to hear back if they have found it. I had a mobile installer do the work, I also purchased 4 tires for the rear of my truck.
We had Trailer King tires on our 2014 Cougar 28RLS. 5 yrs. With zero issues . Just keep the properly inflated. Replaced ours due to age not wear
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Old 02-26-2021, 05:48 AM   #37
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I figured it would stir the pot but figured there were other “closet” China Bomb” tire buyer’s.
I upgraded the suspension components (springs to 5k from 4.4k, EZ Flex system and wet bolts) and added Maxxis 8008 "E" tires to my Outback 298RE right after I bought it from the original owner almost 4 years ago. Had never even taken it out of it's storage spot before doing this, but wanted to bump up the tires from "D's" to "E's". Trailer is 9k GVWR and the tires are rated at 2830lbs load, same as the GY Endurance. Almost 4 years later and zero issues with them.

I run them in the 65-70mph range and check the temps on them at every stop and they are rarely even above warm. I do keep them at the proper pressure and keep the trailer as level as possible to help with the load.

They're rated at about 4.6 on Simple Tire's site over 140 reviews, so the closet must be full of us. LOL.

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Old 02-26-2021, 07:52 AM   #38
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Every tire whether on a car, truck or RV is a “bomb”. Much of the issues is how we treat those tires-bombs. Many owners will run those tires on the towables underinflated, too high a speed for the rating of the tire and many, many times overloaded. And at times there are mechanical issues of alignment or hitting a curb (I have done that).
So, we blame the tires.
But, every tire sold for the U.S. market must meet DOT standards. Not should but must. Those standards are for tread separation, rubber compound, manufacturing standards along with maximum load and speed for the tire.
I have run those “China bombs” on several different travel trailers and 5th wheels. The only two times I had an issue was running over a curb which cause a flat and valve stems that were aged and cracked-my mistake.

So, as you travel on the interstate or other highways and see those tire treads keep this in mind-most of those are from new tires (every tire is a “recap”-part of the process) and highly likely from a “U.S.” manufacturer. Speed, heat, load and inflation-each one is a tire killer.
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