Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-26-2023, 04:24 PM   #1
turbo
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Caledon
Posts: 44
Question Cougar 23 MLE - thoughts?

Searched the forum but couldn't find anything on the 23 MLE fifth wheel. Currently have a 2019 Cougar 315 RLS (36 feet), towed with a 2019 F350 Diesel. Love the RV but want something smaller for longer road trips across Canada/US. We always said it would we'd love it there was a smaller version - no such thing but the 23MLE seems to have everything we need for the 2 of us (other than an east/west bed), plus at 28 feet it will be more maneuverable and has an outside kitchen. Anyone have experience with this model? Looks like it came out in 22. The 315RLS has been solid, so looking to trade it and downgrade. Thoughts? Or does anyone know of a similar model of a different brand? Thanks in advance.
Phil
turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2023, 04:36 PM   #2
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,849
Have you actually walked inside a Cougar Half Ton model ???

If you haven't yet, please take some time to walk into the bedroom, step up on the bed platform and see how much clearance you have to approach standing up straight... The Half Ton frames are not built like your "east/west slide frame"... There is almost a foot (maybe more in current models) of headroom lost due to the frame construction. We have an older XLite fifth wheel on the same frame and there's less than 5' of headroom clearance at either side of the bed...

What that does, is force you to "crawl into bed" or "stoop over and bent-knee walk" to get into bed.

Take some time and try to get into and out of bed before making a committment !!!!!

It may be OK for you, but for us, it was a significant disappointment that we found only after taking the trailer home. It's workable for a weekend or a week, but is very frustrating when on longer trips.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2023, 05:36 PM   #3
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,601
As was mentioned, have you looked at the trailer personally you are considering? The 2019 Cougar 315RLS models we looked at were much nicer than the 1/2 ton models. Getting a shorter unit may be beneficial but make yourself aware of any other tradeoffs you are making, for us, some we aren't willing to make. Some things you have to see personally; like looking at the 315RLS we found, compared to our Cougar High Country, the distance between the island and the stove countertop had been reduced by 6" or more, for us that was a no go. You have to step into them to find that.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2023, 05:59 PM   #4
Canonman
Senior Member
 
Canonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Jordan, Utah
Posts: 2,221
We looked at it pretty seriously last year. I felt we were leaving a lot behind with our current Cougar. The finish and included cabinets and other storage were just not as nice as our 2017. I just felt Keystone had cut a lot of corners on the interior. They did include a solar kit on the roof with an inverter, but then I'd already added that to ours.
Bottom line, decided to keep what we had.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_0111 (1).jpg
Views:	258
Size:	274.6 KB
ID:	43153  
__________________
2017 Cougar 279RKSWE
2007.5 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins
Retirement Training Completed
I think the little voices in my head have started a chat group.
Canonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2023, 09:43 PM   #5
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,396
The ergonomics of a 28' 5th wheel are such that as has been mentioned you have to pretty much crouch over and scuttle around the edge to get into bed. We put a full queen in our 2002 Cougar 278EFS and the scuttle isn't a benefit but we got used to it. Since we have a full queen, I put a piece of plywood across the end to keep the mattress from sagging and our mattress is 14" thick rather than the original. There is a cabinet across the front of out trailer that ensures that a couple knocks to the noggin will train you to sit up gingerly.

The good news is that our bed is north/south. Many if not most of the cracked Lippert frames seem to happen with the east/west bed orientation and I have avoided that type layout for that reason. As far as the general layout, our camper has a lot more counter space (it is a rear kitch as well but the door is in the middle of the camper) and I would not be a fan of the TV above the dinette. You have experience and a different set of druthers than my wife and I so you will have to decide what is important to you.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2023, 06:48 AM   #6
dutchmensport
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,666
There is nothing I enjoy more than cooking outside when camping. But I never wanted an outside kitchen. There are 2 school of thought "out there" on those who have outside kitchens: those who enjoy them and those who never use them after a time or two using them.

Before settling on getting an outside kitchen, seriously ask yourself if you will really use it. Remember, it rains when camping. You will be camping in the rain. It will happen. Remember, it does get cold sometimes. Will you be cooking outside when weather turns cold. Remember, the sun shines from East to West and sunshine and shade change every second of the day. It's not always pleasant standing in bright sunshine attempting to fix food. Remember, some folks have issues with the seals leaking on those kitchen doors. Remember, at night you want to button the outside kitchen up. Campground theft is happing more and more and more. That means opening the compartment up and setting everything up when you want to use it, and then putting it all up at night when you go inside.

The refrigerators in them is always electric. They are not propane. So when hitched and traveling, your refrigerator is not running. Sinks are often not plumbed to drains (if it has a sink at all). Some do not have sinks.

Anyway. Before settling on an outside kitchen model, ask yourself if the outside kitchen is something you will really benefit from? or will you quickly be kicking yourself because it's just robbing space from inside the camper that you wish was available for something else.

Again, some folks REALLY love them and use them. You might be in that group. Just take a hard, realistic look before you plunge down the money.
__________________
2019 Montana High Country 375FL
2014 Chevy Duramax HD 6.6 - 3500 Diesel Dully Long bed Crew Cab
dutchmensport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2023, 08:01 AM   #7
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,849
To add to David's post about outdoor kitchen drawbacks, don't forget that an outdoor kitchen located near the center of the trailer (over the wheels) will stay "close to the same height" in most campgrounds.

On the other hand, in a sloping campsite, the outdoor kitchen may be at knee height or at chest height when the trailer is level....

We do not have an outdoor kitchen in this rig, but did in other trailers. Like David said, in some campgrounds, you just can't use the feature. He didn't mention "biting horseflies, mosquitoes and those pesky "Michigan No Seeums".. All of which make even sitting outside impossible during some trips and yet they are nowhere to be found the next weekend....

Our current rig has the grill mounted on the rear wall of the trailer. We have been in some campgrounds where in order to use the grill on its mount would have meant me (I'm 6'2") standing on a bench so I could reach the grill and actually see the cooking surface. Yep, with the trailer level, the grill was over my head. Granted, that has been a "seldom that sloped" kind of campsite, but when it's the only space available and you've driven 8 hours to that campground, it's either go back home or take what's available and move when a better space opens up.....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2023, 11:20 AM   #8
fjr vfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 473
We love our 2011 Laredo 265rl at 30'. It came with a full queen bed and since we are not big people, 5'6" the height next to the bed is only a minor inconvenience.

Here's a tip regarding the over the bed cabinets. I purchased a strip of corner rubber baby bumper with double sided tape from Amazon. Attached it across the edge of the cabinet and now it is a very gentle bump if we forget to duck. The bumper material comes in different colors and looks like it came from the factory as such.
I also purchased a strip of 6" wide bumper I installed in the slide out along where the chairs on that side of the dinette contact the wall. Now no chance to dent up the wall. And again it looks factory. Matched color with the current wall covering.

Back to the trailer issue. A big concern for us was the ability to use the trailer while traveling without having to put the slides out. Some trailers block access to the bathroom, fridge, dinette, etc. If we need to stop somewhere we wanted to be able to access things any time, not just when set up at an rv park. Anyway none are perfect. You have a lot to consider. Good Luck and safe travels.
fjr vfr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2023, 08:10 PM   #9
T-Time
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 4
We are looking at this same 5ver. I like the size. We have been in one a few times at a local rv show. The bedroom ceiling is low up front. I'm 6'1" and never hit the ceiling. But come close, near the front cap.

I would not call the outside kitchen an outside kitchen. It has a small frig and a slide out griddle, nothing more. Personally, we discussed removing the kitchen to set it up as storage for our outdoor cooking equipment.

Check out this video from Josh the rv nerd

https://youtu.be/VnIlUD0TaHk
T-Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2023, 05:17 AM   #10
Seatram
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Ocala
Posts: 1
So far liking 23mle

We downsized from 36’ GD fifth wheel, and so far we like the 23mle. It’s much easier to tow and back into spaces, and fridge, bath are accessible with slides closed.
Likes:
Kitchen layout and storage, incl. pantry and coffee bar
Good size shower and bath
North/south bed and nightstands

Dislikes:
Separate sewer drain for kitchen
Awkward access to water bay
Digital command center without manual switches

Good luck with your search!
Seatram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2023, 09:21 AM   #11
Ragermack
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Tillamook
Posts: 21
We currently have a 2017 28RKS. We are looking at “downsizing “ to this model at some point. The appointments in this unit are very similar to what we have now with a much shorter footprint allowing us to fit in more places. We spend months at a time in the trailer and other than reinforcing cabinets Our only real issue was a broken leaf spring which can happen on any trailer.

We removed the fridge in the outdoor kitchen and use the area as outside equipment use storage. Grill, foldable tables, chairs, and fishing poles, golf clubs in travel bags, etc. It works very well for us.
__________________
Ray & Gerry
2018 Ram Bighorn 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel
2017 Cougar X-Lite 28RKS
Anderson Ultimate Hitch
Ragermack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2023, 06:49 PM   #12
Bill-2020
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo View Post
Searched the forum but couldn't find anything on the 23 MLE fifth wheel. Currently have a 2019 Cougar 315 RLS (36 feet), towed with a 2019 F350 Diesel. Love the RV but want something smaller for longer road trips across Canada/US. We always said it would we'd love it there was a smaller version - no such thing but the 23MLE seems to have everything we need for the 2 of us (other than an east/west bed), plus at 28 feet it will be more maneuverable and has an outside kitchen. Anyone have experience with this model? Looks like it came out in 22. The 315RLS has been solid, so looking to trade it and downgrade. Thoughts? Or does anyone know of a similar model of a different brand? Thanks in advance.
Phil
I have the 23MLE (2023 MY). What do you want to know in specifics - I may be able to give you some detailed insight.
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
Bill-2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2023, 05:11 AM   #13
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,396
Just noticed the OP last on the site: Last Activity: 02-26-2023 06:24 PM - perhaps the OP Is reading the thread without logging in (can you do that?)...
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2023, 08:00 AM   #14
peanut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Portland metro
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Just noticed the OP last on the site: Last Activity: 02-26-2023 06:24 PM - perhaps the OP Is reading the thread without logging in (can you do that?)...
Yes. I do it most of the time. I log in only when I want to post something.
__________________
GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
2022 Cougar Half Ton 24RDS
Solarflex 400i + 150w suitcase; 206ah LiFePO4; ready for boondocking

peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2023, 10:20 AM   #15
cougar23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: Hartsville
Posts: 247
We have a 2023 Cougar 23MLE and love it. Had a 2022 Thor Four Winds class C and hated it. Sold the class C and bought the 23MLE. Just returned from spending a month in Florida [maiden voyage] with no issues. Camper has 400 watts solar and 2 100 AH Lithium batteries. We boondocked our first night of travel and had to run furnace all night. We watched TV before going to bed and I made a pot of coffee next morning. All of this was on battery power and voltage was still 13.1 when we continued our trip.
I am 5ft. 10 and have plenty of headroom in bedroom. Love the large shower and the 2 grey water tanks. I empty the kitchen tank with a garden hose instead of a sewer hose.
Only dislikes are: 1. AC not very cold.
2. When using furnace bedroom gets hotter than living room.
Easy fix! Close bedroom door!
Tow this camper with a Ford F250 and no trouble getting in/out gas stations.
__________________
2023 Cougar 23MLE
2022 Ford F-250 with 6.2 L
Hartsville, Tenn.
cougar23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2023, 08:59 PM   #16
Bill-2020
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar23 View Post
We have a 2023 Cougar 23MLE and love it. Had a 2022 Thor Four Winds class C and hated it. Sold the class C and bought the 23MLE. Just returned from spending a month in Florida [maiden voyage] with no issues. Camper has 400 watts solar and 2 100 AH Lithium batteries. We boondocked our first night of travel and had to run furnace all night. We watched TV before going to bed and I made a pot of coffee next morning. All of this was on battery power and voltage was still 13.1 when we continued our trip.
I am 5ft. 10 and have plenty of headroom in bedroom. Love the large shower and the 2 grey water tanks. I empty the kitchen tank with a garden hose instead of a sewer hose.
Only dislikes are: 1. AC not very cold.
2. When using furnace bedroom gets hotter than living room.
Easy fix! Close bedroom door!
Tow this camper with a Ford F250 and no trouble getting in/out gas stations.
I agree with everything you've said except the heating and cooling. We turn the thermostat down in the winter a bit, keeping it warm but still just enough "coolness" where we know it's winter out there. The A/C is cold. Check your vents and look up the videos on adjusting them. They need to be turned a specific direction in order for the cold air to be directed in the direction you wish. We only have one A/C. With Keystone's race track ducted system, there's no need for a front A/C on this small of a rig. And it's quiet. whew!
__________________
2023 Cougar HT 23MLE
2020 F250 XLT CC 6.2 4WD
Bill-2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:06 AM   #17
jabeg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Chadron
Posts: 2
Cougar23, I’m brand new to the forum. I hope I’m responding correctly. Newly retired and my wife and I are looking at getting into weekend RVing and joining our friends on outings. We are very interested in the 23MLE. So first question are your thoughts on pulling this smaller unit. We just are resisting replacing our older 2006 Silverado 1500 with a 3/4 ton. 95% of my driving the pickup will be without the 5er. So, trying to find something in between. Seems the Nissan Titan XD might fit the bill. GVWR at 8,750. GVCWR at 17,700. Towing capacity 11,000 Payload at 1,984 or more depending on the trim level. Running an online towing calculator, the numbers say I can tow and tow safely. Just wondering if you have any insight to this part of the RVing. Thanks.
jabeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:18 AM   #18
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,238
Welcome to the forum

Since you just “looking” let’s talk about the weight numbers. The “tow rating” doesn’t mean much. Remember the commercial with that Tundra pulling the space shuttle?

Your truck has a 1984 payload? That means you can’t have more than that in/on the truck. Start by subtracting yours and the wife’s weight, then subtract the weight of any pets, coolers, gear. What’s left? Then take the GVWR of the trailer, divide by 20% to get an idea of king pin weight. What hitch will be installed?

As you can see that payload disappears quickly.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:27 AM   #19
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,601
Don't look at an advertisement for a Titan XD for payload, go look at a truck. You might be unpleasantly surprised depending on the truck you look at.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:45 AM   #20
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Forget the Nissan or any 1/2 ton for towing a 5th wheel, typically too much pin weight even on the ones they jokingly call "1/2 ton towable".
At the absolute minimum get a 3/4 ton! Personally I'd skip the 3/4 & get a SRW (single rear wheel) 1 ton. The 1 ton is very little more $$, same engines available, same ride, same mileage, same options, but if you really like the rv experience you'll be ready for the rv upgrade by already having the appropriate tow vehicle.
Regardless of what you get remember there's 2 numbers that mean absolutely nothing when pairing a rv to a tow vehicle; the max tow rating of any vehicle & the dry weight of any rv.
Always use 13-15% of the rv GVWR posted on the drivers side front corner as tongue weight, never use the tongue weight from brochures, especially with a rv full of young girls you'll be at that max weight very quickly.
Compare that rv tongue weight to the payload of the vehicle posted on the yellow/white tag on the drivers door jamb stating "occupants and cargo must not exceed XXXXlbs".
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cougar

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.