New Silverado 2500 gas vs diesel - Page 2

travelin texans · 05-07-2021, 01:06 PM

Two things to NOT pay any attention to when pairing a truck & rv, the max tow rating for most any rv truck in the rv world is a useless number along with the dry weight of any rv.
Use the posted payload of the chosen truck & the appropriate percentage of pin/hitch of GVWR of the chosen rv.
I also agree I will never tow a rv in excess of 7-8k lbs with a gasser again. Also believe, especially from those that have never owned one, that the maintenance of a diesel is much more than a gas.

**sourdough** · 05-07-2021, 01:09 PM

GM does a very poor job of letting you use their website to sort of hone in on a payload range based on trim levels from what I've found. It will give you a benchmark for a particular drivetrain and cab configuration but after that it's just a guess so keep that in mind.

You've probably played around with their website more than I have but here is a link to a section of it where you can get an idea of what kind of payload you might be looking at based on truck cab/drivetrain configuration;

https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/sil...tyleTwo=413332

Pick the basic truck (configuration) then look at trailering and payload under capabilities.

notanlines · 05-07-2021, 02:10 PM

Travis, you have been given some sage advice above. I am familiar with almost every one of the posters and find them to be way more than competent when it comes to answering your question. However, being from Alabama we want to make sure come September you don't start out any posts with "Roll Tide!" We could live with an occasional "War Eagle" if it isn't too often...

Naw, just having a little fun. Believe me, stay with the one ton, don't listen to all the 3/4 ton baloney stories. Gas vs. diesel argument will go on forever. Not 'much' difference these days in maintenance, mileage is certainly better with diesel, resale is much better with diesel, and a couple years down the road you won't be left wishing you had bought the 'DirtyMax.'
And welcome to the forum by the way.

wiredgeorge · 05-07-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

I'm not going to get sucked into this again, but I will say that as long as I pull a 5th wheel I will never own a SRW pickup or a gasoline engine...

Seriously? Won't get sucked in huh? Bwhahahahaha

Dege · 05-07-2021, 04:40 PM

[QUOTE=JRTJH;448066]Crunching the numbers usually doesn't include payload. Every truck has a GVW (all 3/4 ton trucks are limited to 10,000 GVW). The payload is what's left of that 10K when you subtract the weight of the truck. ie: 10,000-7650= 2350 payload...

I have a 2021 Silverado 2500 gasoline and my GVW is 10,150lbs. The Curb weight is 6845lbs. That's across a CAT scale for the curb weight, not the sticker. That gives me a payload of 3305lbs. With the right package the 2500 gas can go higher in GVW. Just some more numbers to consider.

**JRTJH** · 05-07-2021, 04:55 PM

To anyone who might be interested:

I stand corrected !!!!

There is an "elusive Chevrolet 2500" that exceeds the 10,000 pound GVW by 150 pounds !!!!!

There's a photo of the "10,150 pound GVW sticker" in post #25.

It seems that somehow, GM has figured out a way to avoid the DOT truck classification for a class 2b truck. What that might mean in the way of insurance classifications or state registration is, at least to me, something unknown.

My apologies for any "misinformation I might have posted"....

Dege · 05-07-2021, 05:08 PM

At least in Georgia there are no additional fees for registration. I even transfered my plates from my old GMC 1500. Insurance premiums reflected what I would expect for a new vehicle. As for elusive, I ordered the truck and selected the option. Pretty straight forward. Other states may have different requirements but I double and triple checked the regulations here in Georgia to make sure I would be in compliance. Actually visited the Highway Patrol facility near me and also stopped at a weigh station on I-75 and talked with the compliance folks there. I'm good to go.

Uzelessknowledge · 05-07-2021, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Two things to NOT pay any attention to when pairing a truck & rv, the max tow rating for most any rv truck in the rv world is a useless number along with the dry weight of any rv.
Use the posted payload of the chosen truck & the appropriate percentage of pin/hitch of GVWR of the chosen rv.
I also agree I will never tow a rv in excess of 7-8k lbs with a gasser again. Also believe, especially from those that have never owned one, that the maintenance of a diesel is much more than a gas.

Yes, I do realize the sticker is the gospel but some base number have helped me get toward the right direction.

I do need to do more research and understand how to figure out the correct hitch weight.
Thanks

Javi · 05-07-2021, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Seriously? Won't get sucked in huh? Bwhahahahaha

Nope.... I'll leave it up to you to expound the virtues of naturally aspirated gasoline engines and barely adequate suspensions. Always wondering if you should leave that six-pack home or the pup's food so you're not over weight.

**sourdough** · 05-07-2021, 05:19 PM

GM has started playing games in an attempt to edge up in the weight wars; 150lbs?? To get an edge on the 10k gvw norm? At least we aren't adding bigger lug nuts to add 1000lbs payload. Uhhh.....OH!! What about them Cowboys? Or them pork bellies???

Back to our regular 1/2 vs 3/4 vs 1 ton conversation etc. It's great to delve into "new" territory.

Uzelessknowledge · 05-07-2021, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notanlines

Travis, you have been given some sage advice above. I am familiar with almost every one of the posters and find them to be way more than competent when it comes to answering your question. However, being from Alabama we want to make sure come September you don't start out any posts with "Roll Tide!" We could live with an occasional "War Eagle" if it isn't too often...

Naw, just having a little fun. Believe me, stay with the one ton, don't listen to all the 3/4 ton baloney stories. Gas vs. diesel argument will go on forever. Not 'much' difference these days in maintenance, mileage is certainly better with diesel, resale is much better with diesel, and a couple years down the road you won't be left wishing you had bought the 'DirtyMax.'
And welcome to the forum by the way.

Haha. You’re safe with me. I’m a transplant and not a sport watcher. I’ll watch it if it’s on but have no allegiance to anyone. I would prefer watching baseball too.

As to maintenance. Everyone seems to have a difference of opinion. This is one article I came across.
https://outdoorfact.com/gas-vs-diesel-for-towing-a-fifth-wheel/

It does seem there is agreement that a diesel tows better for various reasons such as torque and fuel economy.

It also seems the consensus is to go 1 ton and not 3/4. Price does seem to be just a little more for the towing and payload abilities.

**sourdough** · 05-07-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Yes, I do realize the sticker is the gospel but some base number have helped me get toward the right direction.

I do need to do more research and understand how to figure out the correct hitch weight.
Thanks

You are looking at 5th wheels. Look at the gvw (not empty weight) and figure a minimum of 21% of the gvw of the particular trailer you want for the starting point for your truck payload. You then have to add the weight of all the people, gear, toys, tools, extra water etc.

So figure a 3/4 truck with 3000lb. payload. You are looking at an 11k gvw trailer; 11k x .21 = 2310lbs hitch weight. That leaves you 690lbs. for anything and everything inside the truck or in the bed....including that 200lb. hitch which would then leave only 490lbs. for all of the above...and you have maxed out payload. Hopefully you can see why we recommend the 1 ton truck. That is only an 11k trailer and the hypothetical 3/4 ton is going to be overloaded.

Some thing to think about. Any thoughts or questions; fire away.

**JRTJH** · 05-07-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Yes, I do realize the sticker is the gospel but some base number have helped me get toward the right direction.

I do need to do more research and understand how to figure out the correct hitch weight.
Thanks

When looking on the Keystone website (and some others, but I won't use that catchall "ALL" any more), when you look at the specs for any trailer, you'll see "shipping weight", "Cargo Carrying Capacity" and "Hitch/Pin weight" listed on every trailer (with the exception of a few introductory models that are just now on the market).

On the Keystone website, adding the shipping weight and the cargo capacity will give you the trailer GVWR. Disregard the hitch/pin weight. That figure is "as the trailer leaves the assembly line with empty propane tanks and no battery or spare tire/tire rack". So, the "published hitch weight" is a phantom that you'll never see once the dealer installs a battery and fills the propane tanks....

It's common practice to use 10-15% of the GVWR to calculate the hitch weight of a travel trailer and 20-15% of the GVWR to calculate the pin weight of a fifth wheel... Most of us have found that the weights "usually" are close to 12% for travel trailers ready to tow and 22% for fifth wheels ready to tow...

So, when you're looking at "anticipated real world weight estimates" look at the shipping weight+cargo capacity as the trailer weight and 22% as an estimated pin weight. Then add the weight of your preferred hitch to that and you'll be fairly close to what the trailer will "put in your pickup bed". Subtract that value (pin weight + hitch weight) from your payload and that's what's left over for all your passengers, cargo, generator, tools, aftermarket stuff like running boards, mud flaps, maps, TPMS monitor to stick on the dash, gloves in the glove compartment and "mamma's purse".... It all adds up quickly, and you NEVER want to compromise with the statement, "We'll always travel with empty tanks and all our cargo will never exceed 500 pounds, so I'll just use the dry weight and add a little for our stuff".... I've never seen anyone with a trailer that sticks to that philosophy after the first couple of trips.... Use the GVWR as your "starting trailer weight for truck capacity calculations"...

**JRTJH** · 05-07-2021, 05:53 PM

Another "exclusion" to keep in mine is the GCWR (truck and trailer max combined weight)....

If you do the math, you'll see that the truck manufacturers and RV salesmen "use" that GCWR as a "smoke and mirrors" advertising gimmick...

If you look at the truck with a GCWR of 24000 pounds and a maximum trailer rating of 17500 pounds, just subtract the maximum trailer weight rating from the GCWR and you'll see what the truck has to weigh at that set of values...

Example, 24000 - 17500 = 6500 pounds... So in this example, if you're trying to tow a 17500 pound trailer, to stay under the GCWR, the truck can't weigh more than 6500 pounds.... Compare that to the "reality" of trying to tow an 11000 pound fifth wheel and keeping the truck under the 10000 pound GVW... If you can't hitch an 11000 pound trailer without being "at/over the truck GVW" you sure can't hitch a 17500 pound trailer and make the truck lighter..... So, "smoke and mirrors"...

NEVER USE OR RELY ON THE GCWR for any "real world trailer calculations.... You'll always exceed payload before you reach GCWR with a fifth wheel. That GCWR relates to things like a well balanced boat on a marine trailer or to a bull dozer on a flatbed trailer (where you can move the equipment forward/aft to adjust the tongue weight (changing the truck payload)... You can't do that with a travel trailer or a fifth wheel.... So, GCWR is irrelevant to almost all RV calculations.....

rhagfo · 05-07-2021, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

I think I want to stick with gas but just not sure the pros and cons of it over diesel. Seems like payload. Diesel seems like more maintenance. Does it get better mpg over gas?

In the 2500 the gas and diesel have roughly the same gcwr, but in the 3500 the diesel is almost double. Both have same towing capacity.
https://www.chevrolet.com/truck-life...d-towing-guide

Crunching the number it seems like with 24000lbs gcwr the 2500 is plenty for either one I linked. No?

I have to remember it’ll be my everyday driver. We would take 3-4 day weekends once a month and a week twice a year to travel.
I also can’t do a long box. When I go into the office I have to park in a parking garage.

The 18” of a long box will not make a difference in a parking garage. I have taken our 3500 crew cab LB DRW into parking garages, learn to back into the space.

**sourdough** · 05-07-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The 18” of a long box will not make a difference in a parking garage. I have taken our 3500 crew cab LB DRW into parking garages, learn to back into the space.

I would have to disagree. 18" in a parking garage, or parking lot, built for autos is a HUGE difference....btdt. That LB DRW truck will not, repeat will not, fit in many of the garages I've been in...and in fact are prohibited in some - no matter how you park it. If you have a 10' space and a 10' "road" between the parked cars...I need to see that go seamlessly. I've been in many lots that a SRW short bed 1 ton can't get into a space....and yes, I can actually park a car or truck in very confined spots.

rhagfo · 05-07-2021, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I would have to disagree. 18" in a parking garage, or parking lot, built for autos is a HUGE difference....btdt. That LB DRW truck will not, repeat will not, fit in many of the garages I've been in...and in fact are prohibited in some - no matter how you park it. If you have a 10' space and a 10' "road" between the parked cars...I need to see that go seamlessly. I've been in many lots that a SRW short bed 1 ton can't get into a space....and yes, I can actually park a car or truck in very confined spots.

Well 10' is the depth, the spot is out of code. we had a PT Cruiser Rag to and could store in a 10' X 15' storage space.
As to DRW backing in yes, 10' road into a 10' wide space, might take two passes but very doable.
There are parking garages that have weight limits and at 10,000# we may have an issue with weight.

aricker243 · 05-08-2021, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge

Hey all

What I’m not sure about is gas or diesel. I want a Silverado 2500. I currently have a 1500 and know I want more towing capacity and don’t want to feel maxed out. I want to tow and not worry about it. It’ll be a crew cab model that I can put a fifth wheel hitch in the bed.
What’s the pros and cons?

We’re looking at 2 fifth wheels.
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/25RES
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/30RLS

2021 GM 2500 with Z71 package has GVW 10,650 (gas)

Uzelessknowledge · 05-08-2021, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The 18” of a long box will not make a difference in a parking garage. I have taken our 3500 crew cab LB DRW into parking garages, learn to back into the space.

Honestly didn’t realize it’s only 18”. My cre can 1500 is 19’ long. If I’m looking at the measurements right a 3500 double or crew with long box was 21 or just a little more.

I only back in now. Always have.

**flybouy** · 05-08-2021, 06:40 AM

There are parking garages and there are parking garages, they are not all the same or need to comply to the same "codes". When I was working I traveled extensivly across the country and I can tell you that I've been in parking garages that I had to duck to walk thru (I'm 6'2" barefoot) and parking garages that were challenging to park a "mid size" rental car in. Blanket statements rarely cover every scenario.

If I were going to visit certian areas of some major cities then I would do some research beforehand and consider the alternatives. There are some cities where it may be more economical to park at a public transportation lot and jump on a train or bus to go into town.

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