Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C E2 error message

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Javi

If the EMS is installed before the transfer switch it will only protect the input from the pedestal, if installed between the transfer switch and the fuse panel it will protect the whole system... However if after the transfer switch it will fault for an ungrounded gen set or inverter.

Javi

So what you are saying is in the scenario that you described, where the EMS is installed after the transfer swithch, the output from the Inverter actually goes through the transfer switch and into the line side of the EMS....is that correct?

[Javi]

Originally Posted by xrated

So what you are saying is in the scenario that you described, where the EMS is installed after the transfer swithch, the output from the Inverter actually goes through the transfer switch and into the line side of the EMS....is that correct?

I believe that is correct.

Javi

[xrated]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

The inverter in the original question is on the DC circuit, where the 12 volts is converted to 120 volts, and feeds the Samsung fridge. This is totally isolated from the 120 volt incoming feed. The issue is strictly located between the pedestal and the camper, so could be in the pedestal, the cable connections at either end, or inside wiring from the trailer connection to the EMS. The EMS looks at the line side (incoming) power, not at load side (trailer side) of the EMS for problems.

Thank you, that is exactly what I thought, and actually stated in an earlier post....the EMS is looking for issues with incoming power, and not anything downstream.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by PARAPTOR

Not sure where you are going with this inverter thing The Op's reference was to the fact he had a residential Frig, which requires 110 VAC to function, his rig like all other having a residential frig has an inverter to supply 110 VAC when not connected to shore power. So the inverter sole function is to provide 110V AC to the single curcuit to the frig when only power source available is the batteries.

Not sure if this is true for all but some inverters have an integral transfer switch which will power the frig circuit from shore power when available thereby saving the batteries.

Where I was going with this is an Inverter that is downstream (load side) of an EMS, was not going to be the issue, as possibly suggested by the original poster. But, as I stated earlier, I don't have an Inverter in my rig, and absolutely zero experience with inverter hookups in trailers, etc. What I was trying to find out is how the inverter was hooked up so that I could dispel the inverter being the problem if it was in fact, hooked up downstream of the EMS. Hopefully that clears it up. I'm a Journeyman Electrician, but I have very limited experience with RV systems and I'm trying to learn what I can.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by xrated

Where I was going with this is an Inverter that is downstream (load side) of an EMS, was not going to be the issue, as possibly suggested by the original poster. But, as I stated earlier, I don't have an Inverter in my rig, and absolutely zero experience with inverter hookups in trailers, etc. What I was trying to find out is how the inverter was hooked up so that I could dispel the inverter being the problem if it was in fact, hooked up downstream of the EMS. Hopefully that clears it up. I'm a Journeyman Electrician, but I have very limited experience with RV systems and I'm trying to learn what I can.

Here is what Progressive recommends for transfer switch equipment..

EMS-SURGE & VOLTAGE PROTECTION MODELS


Q: Should a Hardwired EMS be installed before or after the transfer switch?

A: A hardwired EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch. The reason for this is most RV generators already have built-in voltage and frequency protection. If the EMS is installed after the transfer switch, this leaves the transfer switch vulnerable to power problems.

[PARAPTOR]

Okay guys you have got me confused old guy may not be hard to do

Looks like we have at least three inverter related threads going here:

1. Small inverter supplying 110 VAC to the frig only ( we have had a few threads on this topic recently). I assume a search on inverter will pull them up. Some members have installed a separate inverter to supply a couple plugs ( no residential frig) Do not recall any threads/post installing an inverter for the whole rig (think would have to pull another trailer with batteries)

2. inverter generator whos output is connected directly to the shore power plug (no transfer switch) thereby feeding the power distribution panel

3. inverter generator that feeds a rig with the generator option, ie has a transfer switch installed.

Time to sit back and see what the single topic is ....... anyone willing to untangle this

[PARAPTOR]

Originally Posted by Javi

Here is what Progressive recommends for transfer switch equipment..

EMS-SURGE & VOLTAGE PROTECTION MODELS


Q: Should a Hardwired EMS be installed before or after the transfer switch?

A: A hardwired EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch. The reason for this is most RV generators already have built-in voltage and frequency protection. If the EMS is installed after the transfer switch, this leaves the transfer switch vulnerable to power problems.

Xrated and I have had a detailed discussion on this topic see past posts on EMS

Javi, not so simple, see my post(s) on EMS related to a board generator

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Javi

Here is what Progressive recommends for transfer switch equipment..

EMS-SURGE & VOLTAGE PROTECTION MODELS


Q: Should a Hardwired EMS be installed before or after the transfer switch?

A: A hardwired EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch. The reason for this is most RV generators already have built-in voltage and frequency protection. If the EMS is installed after the transfer switch, this leaves the transfer switch vulnerable to power problems.

I read that before I installed my EMS, but I still chose to install after the transfer switch. The reason being is that my entire Trailer electrical is protected (after the transfer switch), whether I'm running on shore power or generator power. That is my choice, since I've seen generator control circuits lose their minds and produce stupid voltages. Not often, but it does happen. To me, it's a cheaper solution to use the transfer switch as the sacrificial lamb, so to speak, that any of the much higher priced items in the trailer. BTW, Progressive does give instructions on how to wire in the EMS AFTER the transfer switch if you choose to protect the input from both the shore power AND the generator power.....that is what I did.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by PARAPTOR

Okay guys you have got me confused old guy may not be hard to do

Looks like we have at least three inverter related threads going here:

1. Small inverter supplying 110 VAC to the frig only ( we have had a few threads on this topic recently). I assume a search on inverter will pull them up. Some members have installed a separate inverter to supply a couple plugs ( no residential frig) Do not recall any threads/post installing an inverter for the whole rig (think would have to pull another trailer with batteries)

2. inverter generator whos output is connected directly to the shore power plug (no transfer switch) thereby feeding the power distribution panel

3. inverter generator that feeds a rig with the generator option, ie has a transfer switch installed.

Time to sit back and see what the single topic is ....... anyone willing to untangle this

The O.P. has an inverter that supplies power to the refrigerator only.....one circuit. So, his original problem cannot be the inverter, since the inverter received D.C. from the battery system and outputs it's AC to the Refrigerator receptacle.....thus the issue with the EMS, at least as I see it, is NOT inverter related. That's it in a nutshell.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by PARAPTOR

Xrated and I have had a detailed discussion on this topic see past posts on EMS

Javi, not so simple, see my post(s) on EMS related to a board generator

The only whole house inverters I've seen were on large class A motor coaches... But a quick search of RV inverters show several charger/inverter

http://www.xantrex.com/industry-solu...-chargers.aspx

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsh...rv1012ulhw.pdf


Different ways to install an inverter...

http://www.doityourselfrv.com/rv-inverter-install-diy/#

[Javi]

Originally Posted by xrated

I read that before I installed my EMS, but I still chose to install after the transfer switch. The reason being is that my entire Trailer electrical is protected (after the transfer switch), whether I'm running on shore power or generator power. That is my choice, since I've seen generator control circuits lose their minds and produce stupid voltages. Not often, but it does happen. To me, it's a cheaper solution to use the transfer switch as the sacrificial lamb, so to speak, that any of the much higher priced items in the trailer. BTW, Progressive does give instructions on how to wire in the EMS AFTER the transfer switch if you choose to protect the input from both the shore power AND the generator power.....that is what I did.

Other than as a note it is totally moot to me unless I win the lotto and buy a Large diesel pusher... I have no need of a generator and outside of being an Onan generator warranty repairman in the early 80's I haven't fooled with them since...

And as another note... my original suggestion to turn the inverter off and recheck would have negated the next 4 pages of speculation...

[PARAPTOR]

Originally Posted by xrated

I read that before I installed my EMS, but I still chose to install after the transfer switch. The reason being is that my entire Trailer electrical is protected (after the transfer switch), whether I'm running on shore power or generator power. That is my choice, since I've seen generator control circuits lose their minds and produce stupid voltages. Not often, but it does happen. To me, it's a cheaper solution to use the transfer switch as the sacrificial lamb, so to speak, that any of the much higher priced items in the trailer. BTW, Progressive does give instructions on how to wire in the EMS AFTER the transfer switch if you choose to protect the input from both the shore power AND the generator power.....that is what I did.

As I have discussed with you in our previous discussion (posts) on this same topic there is a clear solution which I installed (details in my past posts on this same EMS topic) a surge protected transfer switch made by Surge Guard. This gives the same protection from my own generator as well as shore power. To say you are protecting the rig with your method of connecting your EMS BUT leaving part of your rig (transfer switch) as a sacrificial lamb is not a solution in my eyes. just to add food for thought remember failure of electrical devices can lead to a fire and potential loss of the rig.

As I stated to you previously if not for this transfer switch the day that my own generator put out 140 volts (details in my previous post) I am sure I would have had some toasted stuff and a possible fire. Yes as Javi stated if the generator has protection circuits and are functional everything should be fine I guess we can say the same for camp site pedestals

[rcmike]

I would call progressive customer service when you can. I bet they can answer all the questions about what codes you had come up and why .

[xrated]

The bottom line in all of this is to point the O.P., hopefully in the right direction to try and figure out why his EMS took him off line and reported an E2...an open ground. That is why I was trying to figure out how the inverter was wired in and how there could be any possibility of it causing the E2 fault generated by the EMS, which he ended up doing the bypass.

[xrated]

I'm signing off for the night....3:30AM get up time for work.....and I'm old!

[PARAPTOR]

Originally Posted by Javi

Other than as a note it is totally moot to me unless I win the lotto and buy a Large diesel pusher... I have no need of a generator and outside of being an Onan generator warranty repairman in the early 80's I haven't fooled with them since...

And as another note... my original suggestion to turn the inverter off and recheck would have negated the next 4 pages of speculation...

OKAY I am out of popcorn,

See you where associated with Onan, just to add a touch humor to this, when I called ONAN about the 140 VAC coming out of the Onan 5500 answer was it should not do that , bring it in to nearest authorized repair center. OKAY Thanks. Never happened again so never took it in. But knowing that even if it did happen again my transfer switch will not connect my Raptor to the ONAN. Nice feeling !!! Could have had a toasted Raptor at the Onnan shop

Okay back to the popcorn thread for a refill

[SolarMan]

Hi,
I have a question that I hope some of you people can help me with. I have been full time RVing for over 15 years. Recently my wife and I have taken up residency in a RV campground. Because of my experience I have quickly become the "Mr. Fix-It" for the campground.
Yesterday I ran into an issue I have not seen before. My client has a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C system in their RV. The problem is that there is a loud clicking noise coming from the EMS-HW50C. The system has a wired display panel.
There is No display on the panel. When I unplug (phone cord) from the EMS-HW50C from the display the noise stops but, the RV looses about half of the AC power to that RV.
Please help.
Thank you.
Ralph Hillman (Solar Man)

[bobbecky]

Inside the EMS device, there is a magnetic contactor that closes when the computer circuit, also inside the EMS, sees all the voltage and circuit rules are met. If there is a loose wire in the incoming circuit, or a fault inside the EMS, this sounds like the contactor is closing and then opening again and again. The holding coils in contactors can fail, which could cause this also.

[SolarMan]

Thank you very much Bob for the advice. I will check it out and see if that is the issue.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

Inside the EMS device, there is a magnetic contactor that closes when the computer circuit, also inside the EMS, sees all the voltage and circuit rules are met. If there is a loose wire in the incoming circuit, or a fault inside the EMS, this sounds like the contactor is closing and then opening again and again. The holding coils in contactors can fail, which could cause this also.

I agree with most of what you said, but the holding coils, when they fail, will usually not close the contactor. It's not a matter of closing, then opening, then closing, then opening. Normally for them to drop out, there is a fault somewhere with the incoming power, or something has happened to the control board that allows the contactor to energize.