Leaving Keystone for Jayco

[Crystal17]

When we purchased our 2016 Keystone Bullet Premier 22PRRB travel trailer in 2018 it was a trade in travel trailer in excellent condition. We paid attention to the levels of manufacture, the differences in storage and the difference in quality. For our travel trailer model there were 4 different levels of quality. We felt fortunate to be able to purchase the top model of the 4 levels. We have been extremely happy with our purchase. I am unaware if all of the different types of camping vehicles with Keystone have different levels of manufacture as ours did have that option
I recommend to our friends to check for the different levels offered with each model they are considering purchasing.
We did get side swiped while signing in at campground office, and unfortunately there were no video cameras and we were both inside. Long story short we spoke with our local auto body repair shop and he referred us to a truck collision repair shop about an hour and a half south of our home in NH. The body shop was fantastic! We sent a video of the damage and it was covered except for our deductible. It came back to us good as new!

[MN Roger]

Having owned both Keystone and Jayco, I can tell you from experience; they both have the exact same issues. And, they’d both rather be dragged through razor blades than honor those warranty issues.

[Bingo 57]

MN - said it! razor blades or over a a board of nails! There worrintes are useless! Unless you bought from a dealer that gives a s--t and cares about their reputation your pretty much on your own,!

[wegone]

Originally Posted by Bingo 57

MN - said it! razor blades or over a a board of nails! There worrintes are useless! Unless you bought from a dealer that gives a s--t and cares about their reputation your pretty much on your own,!

Ya know I had a really bummer event with my brand-new trailer, first trailer we ever bought.

Talk about taking a wonderful thing in in our lives and pulling the rug out from all the joy we were hoping to experience.
Nothing gets your attitude soured than paying payments on something you can't use...

Yes, it was an ordeal to get it finally rectified, like life itself, so many mitigating factors come into play....
All we can do over these obstacles is to try and not let it disrupt us, become angry and bitter, over what, a luxury of having a "toy"

We kept out heads and emotions in check, we didn't add more fuel to the fire.... and because we were honest and open with them, it allowed those who really do CARE to push our claim in a manner that got it fixed.

I see folks walking up to service with threats of a lawsuit if not fixed instantly, etc.

I ain't perfect and I hope folks will cut me some slack.
I should be able to do what I expect, hope of others, as well.

OK, I'm done, but its so much better to be a sweet fragrance in a world that has lots of stench.... I feel.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by WDPatterson

On top of that, Thor Industries is owned by Brookshire Hathaway, which is owned by Warren Buffett. It's a small world.

I couldn't find any corroboration for that but if it is true it muddies the water more. Berkshire Hathaway also owns Forest River. That would mean that there is really only one company owning/controlling almost all RV mfg. Probably well over 90%.

[JRTJH]

Without a doubt, most RV manufacturers are owned by "larger conglomerates". Who owns those "conglomerates" is really irrelevant....

What is relevant is this:

Nearly 100% of trailers are built in the same area, by the same worker populatioin, using the same chassis, axles, appliances, adhesives, staples, screws, furniture, carpet, windows, mattresses, tires, propane bottles, awnings, slide mechanisms and dang near every other component. They are sold by the same dealerships as the "competition", serviced by the same technicians at the dealership, towed by the same type vehicles, parked in the same storage areas and used in the same campgrounds.....

What's different??? The script used by the CS phone rep in the warranty office. At Keystone, the CS rep tells you, Please take your trailer to your dealer, they will contact us and we'll review your warranty claim"... At GD, the phone rep tells you, "I've approved your warranty repair, pending dealer confirmation, so please take your trailer to the dealer and they will repair the problem".... It's pretty much all perspective in what the customer "heard them say"....

The reality: GD charges around $5K more for a similar trailer when compared to Keystone. Facts are, around 10% of people have a significant issue with their trailer, the rest never take it back to the dealer for any major repairs. So, GD "pockets that $5K on 90% of their sales" while Keystone buyers "keep that $5K and bitch about the lack of warranty support".....

While the above "dissertation" is not completely accurate in exact percentages, dollars or words used by the warranty divisions, it's close enough to what happens to draw a comparative parallel in "customer perception".... GD buyers like the "personal support and agreeable attitude they get about fixing their trailer".... Keystone buyers don't like the "impersonal, we don't care about you attitude they perceive that drives the Keystone warranty department's lack of caring about their customers"....

Now, when one looks at that $5K expense, some buyers can negotiate it away by diligent bargaining while some buyers pay $8K to make up for what the diligent buyer "bilked from the dealer"....

Bottom line, for the most part, the trailers are the same, built by the same people to the same standards with the same equipment, sold and serviced by the same dealers and service technicians in the same service bays....

This is, IMHO, not a situation where you get a better product (after all, a Lippert chassis with Dexter axles and a Suburban furnace aren't GD or Keystone quality) as much as it is that you get a better perceived outcome, usually at a higher cost.

[wiredgeorge]

Seems to me large investment firms own Thor but I could me misreading this info as I am a poor person of little means so don't understand stock stuff too well...

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/THO/...F5AA1VN3AkzEnF

[NH_Bulldog]

It’s nothing to be scared of George, it’s just money in theory, it can come and go in the blink of an eye. Like the FTX guy you can be a billionaire one day and be living in your parents basement the next without s penny to your name. You can’t take it with you……..which reminds me of the guy who wanted to be buried with all his worldly cash in the casket, so his wife wrote a check, dropped it in the casket and took all the cash.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Seems to me large investment firms own Thor but I could me misreading this info as I am a poor person of little means so don't understand stock stuff too well...

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/THO/...F5AA1VN3AkzEnF

George I think you are confusing owning a company with owning stock in a company. You can have controlling interest in a business if you own >50% of the stock but that's a majority stockholder voting right and not outright ownership.

[wiredgeorge]

It was my understanding that a publicly traded company is owned by shareholders and the largest shareholder owns the majority interest in the company. The shareholders my hire someone to run the company but that someone doesn't own the company. Seems he works for the shareholders. Again, not an expert on these things but that is my understanding. If not the shareholders, who owns Thor? Jimmy Buffett? errrrrr maybe Warren?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

It was my understanding that a publicly traded company is owned by shareholders and the largest shareholder owns the majority interest in the company. The shareholders my hire someone to run the company but that someone doesn't own the company. Seems he works for the shareholders. Again, not an expert on these things but that is my understanding. If not the shareholders, who owns Thor? Jimmy Buffett? errrrrr maybe Warren?

Yes the shareholders collectively own a piece. The more shares the larger the piece but unless you buy the whole of the company. Then there's different types of stocks but this isn't a forum for investments so let's go back to the original discussion.

[travelin texans]

Doesn't really matter who owns which rv manufacturer, they all have but 1 main concern, BTW it's not the rv owner even at GD, the bottom line of the profit/loss sheet & how to increase sales from last quarter.

[RET.LEO]

I was originally looking at Grand Designs but did a couple of years of research (waiting for wife to retire) I quickly learned they have a laminate floor with luan as a substrate PLUS add the whole fictitious R-40 roof insulation which is physically impossible.....their roofs aren't 12 inches deep.
I am now considering a Winnebago Micro Minnie.....better grade materials, Azdel inside and out, 5/8 inch tongue and groove floors, tank heaters from the factory, realistic insulation claims, BAL huckbolt frames, torsion axles. Same price as Grand Design (if not lower)
Jayco would be a close 2nd for build quality and warranty.

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by RET.LEO

I was originally looking at Grand Designs but did a couple of years of research (waiting for wife to retire) I quickly learned they have a laminate floor with luan as a substrate PLUS add the whole fictitious R-40 roof insulation which is physically impossible.....their roofs aren't 12 inches deep.
I am now considering a Winnebago Micro Minnie.....better grade materials, Azdel inside and out, 5/8 inch tongue and groove floors, tank heaters from the factory, realistic insulation claims, BAL huckbolt frames, torsion axles. Same price as Grand Design (if not lower)
Jayco would be a close 2nd for build quality and warranty.

"R40" is a value, not an actual thickness. When you talk about 12 inches, that's as it relates to Owens Corning fiberglass wool.
There are types of foam which offer the same value and more, at a much smaller thickness. Only an inch and a half, maybe two, and you have an equal value. So, pay attention to the materials, and what the actual materials provide. That will be your best choice.
Hope you find something that you like, and that gives you joy!

[WDPatterson]

I figured I'd better go and find the proof, so that everybody can be educated at the same time:

Polyisocyanurate is a type of foam which provides eight units of R-Value (insulation) per inch of thickness. So, only 5 inches thickness provides R40.

That's why I said, pay close attention to what materials they actually use.

https://airflowacademy.com/rigid-foa...ation-r-value/

[RET.LEO]

Originally Posted by WDPatterson

I figured I'd better go and find the proof, so that everybody can be educated at the same time:

Polyisocyanurate is a type of foam which provides eight units of R-Value (insulation) per inch of thickness. So, only 5 inches thickness provides R40.

That's why I said, pay close attention to what materials they actually use.

https://airflowacademy.com/rigid-foa...ation-r-value/

WRONG!!! What material do you think they're using? Grand Design states fiberglass insulation. Polyisocyanurate is a closed cell foam board. You're right....pay attention to what material is being used. No manufacturer that I know of uses polyisocuanurate for roof insulation.

[NH_Bulldog]

Their site says a combination of radiant barrier and fiberglass insulation.

[RET.LEO]

Sorry, it says "Radiant Foil" and fiberglass insulation. The "Radiant Foil" is the aluminum foil that they cover the fiberglass insulation. check time stamp 22:55 Polyisocyanurate couldn't be used in the nose also as it would break being bent to the curvature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaPoB9W2Mc8&t=2s

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by RET.LEO

WRONG!!! What material do you think they're using? Grand Design states fiberglass insulation. Polyisocyanurate is a closed cell foam board. You're right....pay attention to what material is being used. No manufacturer that I know of uses polyisocuanurate for roof insulation.

That's why I said what I said. People need to use discretion and ask questions.
I don't know, and I don't care what they use. I'm set. But I'm telling you all that you need to ask questions if you're buying.

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by RET.LEO

Sorry, it says "Radiant Foil" and fiberglass insulation. The "Radiant Foil" is the aluminum foil that they cover the fiberglass insulation. check time stamp 22:55 Polyisocyanurate couldn't be used in the nose also as it would break being bent to the curvature.

You can actually heat that foam up, and bend it any way you like. I'm not saying that they run those kind of heaters to do it with. I'm just telling you that that's a material that you can use.