Hi-Spec Tires and G load rating Suggestions

[RVGator]

We recently returned from a 62 day 6730 mile summer trip. I will detail a trip report in a differing forum, but we had an amazing time.

The one downside was I blew 3 of my 5(including spare) Hi-Spec tires during that trip. And when I say blew I mean they went off like a bomb. The first one, driver side front, went about midway into the trip up in Maine. It, of course ruined the underside belly tape and skirting around it. It also blew the snap pad off of my leveling jack which flew into a passing truck damaging his headlight and grille.

The 2nd tire (driver side rear) went just outside of Nashville and completely destroyed the remainder of the skirting and underbelly tape along with blowing off the other snap pad, which I was able to recover from the middle of the road. The fender trim also blew off and is ruined.

The 3rd tire happened after our trip when I was bringing the camper to the dealer for warranty/repair/recall work. This one was passenger side and damaged the underbelly tape, lost the snap pad in 6 lanes of traffic in Orlando, and damaged the skirting.

So in 2 months I have significant damage that I will bear the cost of for some really poor tires. I absolutely have 0 confidence left in the remaining 2 hi-spec tires and it won’t leave the dealer without a new set.

The dealer (General RV) says Keystone won’t help out with the tires. They are willing to give me RoadX tires at their cost. Their “cost”, however, is higher than what I can get online but maybe I can get them to mount and balance them for me. I am going to reach out to Keystone personally as this shouldn’t happen with a 5th wheel that is less than a year old.

I have(had, these were blown apart as well)TPMS in all the tires, pressure always checked prior to leaving and temp monitored along the way. No warning or indications prior to explosions.

Long story short I recommend taking a hard look at getting differing tires than the factory Hi-Spec’s if you have the STw235/80R16G size and rating.

On another note finding quality tires when you are in desperate need is challenging and I ended up with 2 differing tire replacements from local tire shops where I had the issues. One being a Trailer King tire and one being a Navitrac. These are both low end tires at the $200 mark. I will say that visually both of these tires look much more “commercial” and robust than the Hi-Spec tire which looks like a normal road tire.

I am looking for inputs for a quality G rated tire. The RoadX tires are made in Canada and General RV puts them in their “best” category. I have never heard of them. These forums suggest Sailun tires, which are made in China, are great tires and people have had a lot of luck with them. I had Goodyear Endurance on my previous trailer and I liked them but they don’t make them in a G load rating. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Rob

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by RVGator

We recently returned from a 62 day 6730 mile summer trip. I will detail a trip report in a differing forum, but we had an amazing time.

The one downside was I blew 3 of my 5(including spare) Hi-Spec tires during that trip. And when I say blew I mean they went off like a bomb. The first one, driver side front, went about midway into the trip up in Maine. It, of course ruined the underside belly tape and skirting around it. It also blew the snap pad off of my leveling jack which flew into a passing truck damaging his headlight and grille.

The 2nd tire (driver side rear) went just outside of Nashville and completely destroyed the remainder of the skirting and underbelly tape along with blowing off the other snap pad, which I was able to recover from the middle of the road. The fender trim also blew off and is ruined.

The 3rd tire happened after our trip when I was bringing the camper to the dealer for warranty/repair/recall work. This one was passenger side and damaged the underbelly tape, lost the snap pad in 6 lanes of traffic in Orlando, and damaged the skirting.

So in 2 months I have significant damage that I will bear the cost of for some really poor tires. I absolutely have 0 confidence left in the remaining 2 hi-spec tires and it won’t leave the dealer without a new set.

The dealer (General RV) says Keystone won’t help out with the tires. They are willing to give me RoadX tires at their cost. Their “cost”, however, is higher than what I can get online but maybe I can get them to mount and balance them for me. I am going to reach out to Keystone personally as this shouldn’t happen with a 5th wheel that is less than a year old.

I have(had, these were blown apart as well)TPMS in all the tires, pressure always checked prior to leaving and temp monitored along the way. No warning or indications prior to explosions.

Long story short I recommend taking a hard look at getting differing tires than the factory Hi-Spec’s if you have the STw235/80R16G size and rating.

On another note finding quality tires when you are in desperate need is challenging and I ended up with 2 differing tire replacements from local tire shops where I had the issues. One being a Trailer King tire and one being a Navitrac. These are both low end tires at the $200 mark. I will say that visually both of these tires look much more “commercial” and robust than the Hi-Spec tire which looks like a normal road tire.

I am looking for inputs for a quality G rated tire. The RoadX tires are made in Canada and General RV puts them in their “best” category. I have never heard of them. These forums suggest Sailun tires, which are made in China, are great tires and people have had a lot of luck with them. I had Goodyear Endurance on my previous trailer and I liked them but they don’t make them in a G load rating. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Rob

I replaced all of my HiSpec bombs with Carlisle CSL16 14 ply tires 2 weeks ago to reduce the chance of trailer damage. Around $230 plus mount and road hazard, 5 tires was about $1,660

[CWtheMan]

Without knowing the cause for the first tire failure, it's hard to make any recommendations. When inflated to the trailer manufacturers recommendation on the certification label your tires provided adequate load capacity in accordance with the RVIA 10% reserve requirements. So that leaves three possible causes; under inflation, over loading or foreign object tire damages.

IMO, all failures after the first one may have been caused by the instant overloading of the tire fore or aft of the failed tire. With a heavy trailer having 7000# axles even the tires on the other side of the trailer may have suffered from the instant failure at highway speed.

Remember, internal tire damages are cumulative, meaning the overloading could cause the tire to suffer some load carrying abilities. Therefore, it will degrade rapidly because it's overloaded.

There are at least a dozen ST tire manufacturers that build tires the same size and load capacity as your OE tires, all offshore.

The RV industry recommends changing all tires on the same side as the failure because they suffered the shock of instant overloading.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Without knowing the cause for the first tire failure, it's hard to make any recommendations. When inflated to the trailer manufacturers recommendation on the certification label your tires provided adequate load capacity in accordance with the RVIA 10% reserve requirements. So that leaves three possible causes; under inflation, over loading or foreign object tire damages.

IMO, all failures after the first one may have been caused by the instant overloading of the tire fore or aft of the failed tire. With a heavy trailer having 7000# axles even the tires on the other side of the trailer may have suffered from the instant failure at highway speed.

Remember, internal tire damages are cumulative, meaning the overloading could cause the tire to suffer some load carrying abilities. Therefore, it will degrade rapidly because it's overloaded.

There are at least a dozen ST tire manufacturers that build tires the same size and load capacity as your OE tires, all offshore.

The RV industry recommends changing all tires on the same side as the failure because they suffered the shock of instant overloading.

The 4th possibly is cheap a## Chinese tires, aka China Bombs!
Regardless of what the RVIA specs may be for the recommended load carrying capability there are just some brands of tires, HiSpec, TKs & couple others, that aren't adequate to be put on a covered wagon. I can't believe every blow out on those few brands are all due to those 3 cases of abuse by the rv owner you've quoted, too much of coincidence that those brands blow up.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

The 4th possibly is cheap a## Chinese tires, aka China Bombs!
Regardless of what the RVIA specs may be for the recommended load carrying capability there are just some brands of tires, HiSpec, TKs & couple others, that aren't adequate to be put on a covered wagon. I can't believe every blow out on those few brands are all due to those 3 cases of abuse by the rv owner you've quoted, too much of coincidence that those brands blow up.

Junk tires normally get recalled right off the shelfs. ST tire recalls are almost nonexistent. However, Sailun - a favorite - is just recovering from one.

If an owner is not going to take the time to look into the cause of their tire failures, what's their comments worth? Just another unfounded complaint from the "band wagon"?

The meat of my comment was the fact that opposing tires on multi axle trailers are severely overloaded when one of them fails, especially more so when traveling at highway speed.

Foot note: The DOT logo on all highway tries is supported by mandatory inspections, normally done by a 3rd party. The common cause for all tire tread separations can be determined by a skilled tire forensic expert. Without proof of a factory defect the other possibilities are clearly identifiable. Overloading, under inflated or both.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Junk tires normally get recalled right off the shelfs. ST tire recalls are almost nonexistent. However, Sailun - a favorite - is just recovering from one.

If an owner is not going to take the time to look into the cause of their tire failures, what's their comments worth? Just another unfounded complaint from the "band wagon"?

The meat of my comment was the fact that opposing tires on multi axle trailers are severely overloaded when one of them fails, especially more so when traveling at highway speed.

Foot note: The DOT logo on all highway tries is supported by mandatory inspections, normally done by a 3rd party. The common cause for all tire tread separations can be determined by a skilled tire forensic expert. Without proof of a factory defect the other possibilities are clearly identifiable. Overloading, under inflated or both.

Yes almost no St type tires are recalled. IMO the primary reason for this is that RV owners almost never bother to file complaints with NHTSA so no data is collected that would justify an investigation.

I know this is point the finger at the owner but if the owner can't be bothered who should file a complaint?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

The 4th possibly is cheap a## Chinese tires, aka China Bombs!
Regardless of what the RVIA specs may be for the recommended load carrying capability there are just some brands of tires, HiSpec, TKs & couple others, that aren't adequate to be put on a covered wagon. I can't believe every blow out on those few brands are all due to those 3 cases of abuse by the rv owner you've quoted, too much of coincidence that those brands blow up.

Measurement of well over 10,000 RVs by RVSEF confirms that most rvs have one or more tires in overload.


Neither RVIA or RVSEF specify the load capacity of tires. That info comes from tire industry standards and are published in the Tire & Rim Yearbook


RVIA is recommending that tires applied to RVs be rated to support 110% of the GAWR. The only way to know if you meet this is to get on a truck scale when the RV is fully loaded to the expected heaviest loading.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Without knowing the cause for the first tire failure, it's hard to make any recommendations. When inflated to the trailer manufacturers recommendation on the certification label your tires provided adequate load capacity in accordance with the RVIA 10% reserve requirements. So that leaves three possible causes; under inflation, over loading or foreign object tire damages.

IMO, all failures after the first one may have been caused by the instant overloading of the tire fore or aft of the failed tire. With a heavy trailer having 7000# axles even the tires on the other side of the trailer may have suffered from the instant failure at highway speed.

Remember, internal tire damages are cumulative, meaning the overloading could cause the tire to suffer some load carrying abilities. Therefore, it will degrade rapidly because it's overloaded.

There are at least a dozen ST tire manufacturers that build tires the same size and load capacity as your OE tires, all offshore.

The RV industry recommends changing all tires on the same side as the failure because they suffered the shock of instant overloading.

I'm confused, not something new for me but hear me out. In this post you basically state that the initial tire failure was owner caused. The first paragraph plainly states that the tires meet the 10% reserve so that ONLY LEAVES 3 owner caused possabilities. And then, subsequent failures were caused by overloading from the first tire failure. Logically then all tire failures were caused by the owner.

In other posts, all I see are complaints why folks don't have their tire failures inspected by a "forensic tire expert". Logically If it's my fualt why do this? Is this for the tire companies edification so they can compile data for a tire confrence? This just seems illogical to me.

[ChuckS]

The Hi Spec tire used on any large fifth wheel is just a blowout waiting to happen.. it ranks right up there with Towmax and Trailer King..

And the really bad thing is in most cases it’s carrying at least 20 psi or more compared to the E rated Blowmax kings at (80 psi versus 110 psi) for the Hispec.

I have seen well over a dozen Hispec blowouts in the last 6 months.. All Alpines .. it’s a trash tire that should never have been installed by Keystone

For some reason the Alpine line seems to want to always use off the wall tire brands while the Montana line used GoodYear G614 and then switched to Sailun S637 series.l bitch quality tires

The Alpine and Montana are both the top “Luxury Lline” units from Keystone..same weight and size class.. Same drop frame.l same 7K axles..

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

The Hi Spec tire used on any large fifth wheel is just a blowout waiting to happen.. it ranks right up there with Towmax and Trailer King..

Maybe you should say that's in your opinion.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Maybe you should say that's in your opinion.

Or from experience of countless others that HAVE had blowouts from these brands.
If you see a post on any rv forum concerning blowouts you can almost bet it's one these brands.

[rvator]

I have original tires from Keystone on a 2017 x lite 26rls I live in Denver and have about 25’000 to 30’000 miles on them. They are on the last 1/3 tread may need to think about replacing before heading to Florida this winter. The tires are Westlake have never had a flat on them. I did have a blowout on my GMC pulling my 5ver in Florida the tire blew out front inside going 55 and it was a Michelin with about 10’000 miles. Replaced the Michelins when I returned home. Not sure what to put on the 5ver but need to replace. Thanks Stan

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by rvator

I have original tires from Keystone on a 2017 x lite 26rls I live in Denver and have about 25’000 to 30’000 miles on them. They are on the last 1/3 tread may need to think about replacing before heading to Florida this winter. The tires are Westlake have never had a flat on them. I did have a blowout on my GMC pulling my 5ver in Florida the tire blew out front inside going 55 and it was a Michelin with about 10’000 miles. Replaced the Michelins when I returned home. Not sure what to put on the 5ver but need to replace. Thanks Stan

Put together a signature with year, make and model of you camper and same for your tow vehicle. This is under UserCP and make sure you save it. Since no on knows which camper and thus which size wheels, no point in going through recommendations since the list of forum favorite tires are different for 15" than 16" with some overlap. I have 15" rims on my 5th wheel so Sailuns are out. They don't make 15" ST type tires.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rvator

I have original tires from Keystone on a 2017 x lite 26rls I live in Denver and have about 25’000 to 30’000 miles on them. They are on the last 1/3 tread may need to think about replacing before heading to Florida this winter. The tires are Westlake have never had a flat on them. I did have a blowout on my GMC pulling my 5ver in Florida the tire blew out front inside going 55 and it was a Michelin with about 10’000 miles. Replaced the Michelins when I returned home. Not sure what to put on the 5ver but need to replace. Thanks Stan

I believe the tires on your trailer are TK 225 75R15 LRD "china bombs" and IMO, you should consider yourself very lucky that you haven't had a tire incident with almost 6 years and 30,000 miles on them !!!!! You might consider buying a lottery ticket with that kind of luck !!!!!

Now, the two "most respected on this forum" brands in the size tire you need are Goodyear Endurance (most expensive) and Carlisle Radial Trail HD (most commonly used).

If I were in your shoes (and my trailer is very close to yours in size/weight with the same tire size), I would seriously consider Carlisle RT HD and upgrade from LRD to LRE tires (an extra 290 pounds of capacity per tire for a total of 1160 pounds of "added protection from being overloaded as the tires age".

The most economical place I've found to buy Carlisle RT HD tires is WalMart. You would need to special order them on the website and they'd be delivered "free shipping" to the store. You'd need to either pick them up and go to a tire installer or take the wheels off the trailer for WalMart to change them out. WalMart does not remove/install tires on trailers but will install tires on the wheels if you bring them in for service. Simply put, they don't have a bay big enough for a travel trailer and they won't work on a trailer in the parking lot.

Here's the link to the tires at WalMart: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carlisle-...Rated/55012166 The current price is $112 per tire. I'd recommend you replace all 5 tires at the same time. If you have a Discount Tire store near you, you may be able to get them to "price match" the WalMart price. DT does work on travel trailers in their parking lot at many of their stores, so that may simplify the changeout for you.

At any rate, with 6 year old china bombs with 30,000 miles and 2/3 of the tread gone, I'd change them out before towing another mile...

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I'm confused, not something new for me but hear me out. In this post you basically state that the initial tire failure was owner caused. The first paragraph plainly states that the tires meet the 10% reserve so that ONLY LEAVES 3 owner caused possabilities. And then, subsequent failures were caused by overloading from the first tire failure. Logically then all tire failures were caused by the owner.

In other posts, all I see are complaints why folks don't have their tire failures inspected by a "forensic tire expert". Logically If it's my fualt why do this? Is this for the tire companies edification so they can compile data for a tire confrence? This just seems illogical to me.

Read it more closely. I never pointed a finger at the owner. I just outlined common causes for tire failures, especially those that haven't provided a weight slip.

I made note that a tire forensic expert can normally, very successfully, determine why a tire failed.

Within the RV trailer tire industry, it's common knowledge that when a tire instantly fails at highway speed it will cause the remaining tires on that side of the trailer to carry the load for all remaining axle loads on that side of the trailer. at the very least, an internal inspection for visible damages is highly recommended.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Read it more closely. I never pointed a finger at the owner. I just outlined common causes for tire failures, especially those that haven't provided a weight slip.

I made note that a tire forensic expert can normally, very successfully, determine why a tire failed.

Within the RV trailer tire industry, it's common knowledge that when a tire instantly fails at highway speed it will cause the remaining tires on that side of the trailer to carry the load for all remaining axle loads on that side of the trailer. at the very least, an internal inspection for visible damages is highly recommended.

"When inflated to the trailer manufacturers recommendation on the certification label your tires provided adequate load capacity in accordance with the RVIA 10% reserve requirements. So that leaves three possible causes; under inflation, over loading or foreign object tire damages."

The closer I look the less I can interpret this any other way. Please point me to the place where it says otherwise.

[ChuckS]

IMO.
Hispec tires do not belong on any Alpine..or Montana.. images of Hispec tire failures… All Alpines.All OEM tires..

Mileages ranges from 500 miles to 8000 miles.. no specifics on each tire image as to cold inflation but each OP stated they were properly inflated for the load, tow speeds were under 70 mph.

This is just a small sampling over the last four months from various Alpine owners with blowouts from Oracle Hispe 14 ply tires installed from the factory

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by flybouy

"When inflated to the trailer manufacturers recommendation on the certification label your tires provided adequate load capacity in accordance with the RVIA 10% reserve requirements. So that leaves three possible causes; under inflation, over loading or foreign object tire damages."

The closer I look the less I can interpret this any other way. Please point me to the place where it says otherwise.

As you must know by now, I just post the facts. Are those not a factual?

Under inflation can happen at any time.

Overloading can be caused by the trailer's design in having axles that are carrying the load, just not balanced from side to side.

Foreign object damages are random events mostly unavoidable.

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Without knowing the cause for the first tire failure, it's hard to make any recommendations. When inflated to the trailer manufacturers recommendation on the certification label your tires provided adequate load capacity in accordance with the RVIA 10% reserve requirements. So that leaves three possible causes; under inflation, over loading or foreign object tire damages.

IMO, all failures after the first one may have been caused by the instant overloading of the tire fore or aft of the failed tire. With a heavy trailer having 7000# axles even the tires on the other side of the trailer may have suffered from the instant failure at highway speed.

Remember, internal tire damages are cumulative, meaning the overloading could cause the tire to suffer some load carrying abilities. Therefore, it will degrade rapidly because it's overloaded.

There are at least a dozen ST tire manufacturers that build tires the same size and load capacity as your OE tires, all offshore.

The RV industry recommends changing all tires on the same side as the failure because they suffered the shock of instant overloading.

I think the post appears to me to place the blame on the owner for over-pressuring the tire, or the tire becomes underinflated for whatever reason or the tire has been damaged by an object in the road BUT it appears to me to leave out the SIMPLE idea that the tire was simply made crappy and is known to blow out for NO real reason other the tire was crap to start with.
A manufacturer's rating basically means nothing. Real life experiences DO!

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Alpine Custom Upgrade

I think the post appears to me to place the blame on the owner for over-pressuring the tire, or the tire becomes underinflated for whatever reason or the tire has been damaged by an object in the road BUT it appears to me to leave out the SIMPLE idea that the tire was simply made crappy and is known to blow out for NO real reason other the tire was crap to start with.
A manufacturer's rating basically means nothing. Real life experiences DO!

Of the many thousand failures I have seen and examined only a small handful of tires from one tire service location were the result of "over-pressure" and after doing a complete investigation it was confirmed, with data, that you needed to be at or above 200% of the inflation number on the tire sidewall.


While I have see human error during tire assembly result is a tire failure those failures were early life (under 100 miles) and were limited in number. After decades as a Forensic Tire Engineer I have yet to see anyone identify the specific "defect" or "Crappy" construction feature that results in a tire failure on the relatively small percentage of tires that suffer belt separations as seen in the few pictures in this thread.