Upgrade rim size and tires

[traynoral]

Hi All,

I have a 2019 Keystone Cougar 32BHS. I am wanting to go to a larger wheel and tire size for several reasons, but the main reason is to gain a little height to level out the trailer with my truck. I have already had installed a two inch steel block under the leafs to get a little height which has also given me a little more wheel well clearance. My plan is to go from my 225/75 15s to 235/80 16s. As far as I can measure it looks like I have plenty of clearance to do this.

Has anyone done this on their Cougar Half Ton Fifth Wheel? If so, how did it work for you and what tire/wheel combo did you go with?

[bobbecky]

You will only gain 1.25” in height. Comparing specs on the Goodyear Endurance tires on Tirerack, the 15” tire is 28.3” in diameter and the 16” tire is 30.8” in diameter, so, for a difference of 2.5”, half of that isn’t much for what it’s going to cost to make the change, but that’s your decision if that’s what you want to do. It would have been cheaper to add another inch at your axles.

[gearhead]

Before you spend money on tires be sure you can find wheels for your lug bolt pattern.

[notanlines]

Al, can we maybe get a picture of your rig hooked up? Maybe tell us how much clearance you have at your truck bed right now...

[traynoral]

Thanks for your replies.

It is a 6 5-1/2 bolt pattern so that part is not a problem for a 16 inch rim. I do have to replace the tires anyway, so my only optional cost would be the rims. Also, I should be able to get a little money for selling the old alloys as they are fairly new. The place that put the blocks in said that I should not go higher than two inches. I did look at going with 235/85s over 235/80s, however that will only give me 1 to 1.5 inches of clearance between my tandem tires, which I feel is too close.

My other reason to upgrading is I want to go to a better grade of tire (most likely the GY Endurance's) and with the larger tire size I will have more weight capacity. I don't plan on overloading the rig but would like to have that tire capacity buffer to be on the safe side.

What I am really wondering is if anyone has done a similar upgrade and how well has it worked for you.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by traynoral

Thanks for your replies.

It is a 6 5-1/2 bolt pattern so that part is not a problem for a 16 inch rim. I do have to replace the tires anyway, so my only optional cost would be the rims. Also, I should be able to get a little money for selling the old alloys as they are fairly new. The place that put the blocks in said that I should not go higher than two inches. I did look at going with 235/85s over 235/80s, however that will only give me 1 to 1.5 inches of clearance between my tandem tires, which I feel is too close.

My other reason to upgrading is I want to go to a better grade of tire (most likely the GY Endurance's) and with the larger tire size I will have more weight capacity. I don't plan on overloading the rig but would like to have that tire capacity buffer to be on the safe side.

What I am really wondering is if anyone has done a similar upgrade and how well has it worked for you.

You will not increase weight capacity changing tires, that number is based on the suspension system, springs, axles, bearings, spindles, etc. You will gain a larger percentage of "cushion" above capacity. You can put the wheels/tires from a 18 wheeler under it and it's won't change the load capacity.

[traynoral]

Originally Posted by flybouy

You will not increase weight capacity changing tires, that number is based on the suspension system, springs, axles, bearings, spindles, etc. You will gain a larger percentage of "cushion" above capacity. You can put the wheels/tires from a 18 wheeler under it and it's won't change the load capacity.

Thank you. Yes, I do understand that. I am just trying to make sure my tires are not the "weakest link" as far as capacity goes.

[Roscommon48]

you might want to go up a 'rating' while at it. make sure the wheels match the psi of the tires.

[notanlines]

Darrel, I'm curious how you feel you benefited by the 3" to tow level. Was this to add clearance to the bed of the truck?

[flybouy]

The way I see it it's mainly a result of our society being over litigious and the accepted idea that someone must "pay" for your loss (either real or imagined). Combine that with an overzealous government that wants to regulate everything and doesn't understand how most of it works.

Don't get me wrong, if someone (individual or company) does undo harm then they should be penalized but good gracious the television just bombards use with Lawyer commercials telling us how to get rich. Regulations are necessary but what seems to be missing is the good old common sense.

Wasn't that many years ago that you could go to a welding shop and get a hitch made or a modification to "beef up" a suspension. There were "spring shops" that would re-arch or add a leaf. Those places are disappearing and I miss them. Typically it was owned and operated by a guy that wasn't an MIT engineer, may or may not have been a certified welder, but knew what you needed, could "rig it up" and if it was going to get you into trouble tell you no and refuse to do it. His most valuable skill was the implementation of common sense. They don't teach that at the "trade schools" or certification programs unfortunately. Now everyone must be "certified" and become "technicians or specialists" . That's a great word. I saw a news bit last night on "Certified Pre-Owned Cars" and how most of them are meaningless. By definition, they are certifying that someone bought the car, used it, and now it's for sale again. And people are eating it up.

I'll take a a person that's experienced that's got common sense but that's a rapidly dying breed these days.

JMHO

[JRTJH]

Since I got my first driver's license (at 15 years old) I've been "modifying vehicles" it started by changing out the 1950 Chevy turtleback 2 door coupe tires for whitewalls and changing those DAMN itchy wool OEM seat covers for plastic ones. Even my 1968 Plymouth Barracuda SS I installed a "mini-8 and two speakers" in addition to "huge redwall rear tires" called cheater slicks...

Almost every 4x4 from the first 1960 Ford F100 got 35" tires to replace the "bicycle tires from the factory". I think I supported Micky Thompson for most of my adult life.

The 1972 Dodge truck needed a 2" receiver, so the local welding shop "built one and welded it to the frame". When I bought our 1975 Blazer, that same shop "cut the hitch off the Dodge and welded it to the Blazer."

I can't count the number of times I've had a leaf added to the rear springs, or added "overload shocks" with spring packs attached, to lift the rear end so those "big Micky Thompson's won't rub the wheelwells when driving on a washboard gravel road"...

So, I'm not one to "be afraid" of putting 16" wheels/tires on a Cougar that came with 15" wheels that offered ZERO weight capacity beyond the axle ratings or the trailer GVW.

If this were catechism, I suppose I'd have my knuckles bleeding from that damn ruler.... But, living in a "free country" so far, I've never "bled for changing wheel/tire size".....

[CWtheMan]

Earlier in this thread I referenced the way to find this link. Remember, the following reference is out of context because it is .6 of 7.

https://www.govregs.com/regulations/...7_section567.6

Those of you that regularly read my posts know my agenda is to post it the way it’s supposed to be done.

Because most of the regulations and standards rely on user adherence, it puts a lot of pressure on enforcement and will not normally come into play unless an industry standard has been violated and found during some sort of vehicle inspection. When found in violation you’ll probably hear the comment “you shouldn’t have done that” just before judgment is rendered.

After many years of posting in threads like this one, it has become very clear to me that few consumers know how to read government regulations and standards. Here’s a Hypothetical: A vehicle certification label lists the installed tires to be ST225/75R15 LRD and they are mounted on rims 15X6. The recommended inflation pressure for the tires is 65 PSI cold. A NHTSA mandated entry to the vehicle’s owner’s manual states – in part – that the consumer needs to get approval from the vehicle manufacturer before changing the OE tires designated size. The trailer was built to minimum standards in accordance with FMVSS (standards). The vehicle manufacturer was not required to use wheels/rims with more certified inflation pressure than required by the OE tires. For the vehicle manufacturer to recommend tires with a higher PSI value than the OE wheels are certified to provide would require them to provide new wheels/rims.

Because tire load range is not part of a tire’s designated size, vehicle manufacturers may provide wheels certified to the highest load range within a designated size. I wouldn’t bet on that with the ST235/80R16 because there are 5 load ranges in that designated size and the vehicle manufacturer has an opportunity to notify NHTSA of the highest load range used for any particular fitment. Remember, load range, not load index, is the official load capacity indicator for LT & ST tires.

[Sarge2]

My new 2600 passport has 14" tires... can I go up to 15" or even 16" and would it be worth it? I really haven't checked the tire brand but I'm sure they are not "top of the line" lol... wonder if I should hold off until I'm actually doing some cross country traveling...Any input would be appreciated...
Sarge

[traynoral]

Originally Posted by Sarge2

My new 2600 passport has 14" tires... can I go up to 15" or even 16" and would it be worth it? I really haven't checked the tire brand but I'm sure they are not "top of the line" lol... wonder if I should hold off until I'm actually doing some cross country traveling...Any input would be appreciated...
Sarge

If you can would depend on a few factors. Including but not limited to sidewall, height, and tire to tire (if tandem axle) clearances. Bolt pattern is also something that would need to be checked.

Unless you are looking for more ground clearance or if you feel the stock size does not offer a safe margin of weight capacity buffer compared to the GVWR of the trailer, then I do not believe that moving up in size would offer you much benefit.

That being said, moving to a better brand/model of tire is most likely a good idea, assuming (pretty safe assumption) that the stock tires are not that good.

[hornet28]

Lets see. 1941 Ford, Nova subframe, chopped top, other than stock size wheels and tires, shaved door handles, tinted glass, converted to 4 whl disc brakes, 454 BBC, 700R4 automatic, and the list goes on. In the opinion of some on here it's illegal. I have too wonder why then a well know old car insurance company has insured it for $60K +

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Sarge2

My new 2600 passport has 14" tires... can I go up to 15" or even 16" and would it be worth it? I really haven't checked the tire brand but I'm sure they are not "top of the line" lol... wonder if I should hold off until I'm actually doing some cross country traveling...Any input would be appreciated...
Sarge

Your "limiting factor" I believe is finding wheels with enough weight capacity for larger tires. All the 14" wheels I've seen are 5 lug design. To "upgrade significantly" would require wheels with 6 lugs. That would mean a hub change (if you can find suitable hubs with 6 lugs to fit your axles) or changing out axles, wheels and tires....

You can "go up a bit" with 15" 5 lug wheels, but you'll be limited significantly until you can get into the 15" 6 lug wheels/hubs...

[Jerry S]

Jeez, I built my own airplane and certify it legal and safe to fly.

Originally Posted by flybouy

The way I see it it's mainly a result of our society being over litigious and the accepted idea that someone must "pay" for your loss (either real or imagined). Combine that with an overzealous government that wants to regulate everything and doesn't understand how most of it works.

Don't get me wrong, if someone (individual or company) does undo harm then they should be penalized but good gracious the television just bombards use with Lawyer commercials telling us how to get rich. Regulations are necessary but what seems to be missing is the good old common sense.

Wasn't that many years ago that you could go to a welding shop and get a hitch made or a modification to "beef up" a suspension. There were "spring shops" that would re-arch or add a leaf. Those places are disappearing and I miss them. Typically it was owned and operated by a guy that wasn't an MIT engineer, may or may not have been a certified welder, but knew what you needed, could "rig it up" and if it was going to get you into trouble tell you no and refuse to do it. His most valuable skill was the implementation of common sense. They don't teach that at the "trade schools" or certification programs unfortunately. Now everyone must be "certified" and become "technicians or specialists" . That's a great word. I saw a news bit last night on "Certified Pre-Owned Cars" and how most of them are meaningless. By definition, they are certifying that someone bought the car, used it, and now it's for sale again. And people are eating it up.

I'll take a a person that's experienced that's got common sense but that's a rapidly dying breed these days.

JMHO

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Jeez, I built my own airplane and certify it legal and safe to fly.

You left out the details.

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/.../amateur_regs/

[Jerry S]

Which detail did I leave out? I built my airplane and I am the one that certifies it safe to fly. Yes a inspector looks at it when it is completed but he is not the one that certifies it safe, he could not care less if you take a tin can and make it fly it is up to me to make sure that tin can is safe. I do that by writing a statement in my log book that I certify this aircraft is safe. I have the repairman's certificate and can do all the work on my aircraft. I only bring this up because of the absurdity of saying someone cannot make a change on their vehicle to make it safer, we all know that the trailer manufacturers use the cheapest products they can find from tires to axles to electronics etc..

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

You left out the details.

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/.../amateur_regs/

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Which detail did I leave out? I built my airplane and I am the one that certifies it safe to fly. Yes a inspector looks at it when it is completed but he is not the one that certifies it safe, he could not care less if you take a tin can and make it fly it is up to me to make sure that tin can is safe. I do that by writing a statement in my log book that I certify this aircraft is safe. I have the repairman's certificate and can do all the work on my aircraft. I only bring this up because of the absurdity of saying someone cannot make a change on their vehicle to make it safer, we all know that the trailer manufacturers use the cheapest products they can find from tires to axles to electronics etc..

I think you are missing the point. You certified it "safe" and someone who was obviously qualified and certified agreed that it was "safe". Was this "homebuilt" certified to take up passengers or was it classed as "experimental"? Was the aircraft built from a kit, plans, or was it solely your design/build?

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. JMHO