Alpine 3910RK rear box attachment issue

[cgray3910rk]

Also, part of the 6 week process it sat at the dealer, both Keystone and Lippert requested multiple measurements from the dealer. Part of that frustration was that both places were only 12 miles away from the unit. They could have both drove over on lunch to look at it in person. But, it sat in a maintenance bay, on a concrete floor, for 6 weeks while they measured it. The manager told me the frame was definitely off. The Keystone rep in turn said it was not. 2 separate individuals deciphered measurements differently. Keystone denied the warranty claim. If it was the suspension, or the jacks, or anything else, why did they just thumbs up and brought it back? The rep said it’s crooked, but structurally sound. He just devalued my RV by $20k and told me it will drive down the road ok? What’s it gonna do in 5 years?

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I don’t know about all of that, I can tell you for fact that my front landing gear move with the rear when I press the left or right side. Weather that’s from hydraulic pressure pushing them out or then extending on their own to match the rear (I’ve never seen a hydraulic ram do that) I don’t know. I do know they extend with the rears when I push one side or the other. That makes sense to me since if I’m raising or lowering a side, I want the entire side to move. If not, I’m twisting the chassis One thing for certain is that the front jack is not lifting off the ground. And I have extended mine to the point I get an excessive angle error when I used the jacks to lift the tires for bearing maintenance.

Again..the front LG Hydac vacle doesn’t open and allow fluid extend or return pressure to flow through the front LG when the mid/rear leveler legs operate..what you are seeing is the compression of the right front LG when the LT side is lifted and the LT front LG extends because the two front LG are connected in tandem and the fluid flows to the other LG.. it is a fact,,

But. All this has nothing to do with the OPs issues at hand

[jasin1]

i’d trade it in and buy another rv…i don’t think your gonna find the happiness you are looking for and i’ve got a terrible headache trying to decipher all of the issues you have…

it’s a really complicated set of concerns that can’t be figured out by typing on a keyboard…it needs to be towed to a completely level pad and someone with the skills to measure all of the points properly should easily figure out the problem (if there is one)

it’s seems you have a riddle that is drawing people in to figure out but again without measurements and seeing it on a completely level pad it’s almost futile….

i’m sure everyone that is dealing with this is equally frustrated and hoping they wake up tomorrow and it all goes away.

good luck though

[cgray3910rk]

Originally Posted by jasin1

i’d trade it in and buy another rv…i don’t think your gonna find the happiness you are looking for and i’ve got a terrible headache trying to decipher all of the issues you have…

it’s a really complicated set of concerns that can’t be figured out by typing on a keyboard…it needs to be towed to a completely level pad and someone with the skills to measure all of the points properly should easily figure out the problem (if there is one)

it’s seems you have a riddle that is drawing people in to figure out but again without measurements and seeing it on a completely level pad it’s almost futile….

i’m sure everyone that is dealing with this is equally frustrated and hoping they wake up tomorrow and it all goes away.

good luck though

You comment was notably useless. Get back to your tic-tok videos before Grammy wants you to mow the yard. In the meantime, please read where it sat on a concrete pad for 6 weeks with multiple measurements taken.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by cgraydotcom

You comment was notably useless. Get back to your tic-tok videos before Grammy wants you to mow the yard. In the meantime, please read where it sat on a concrete pad for 6 weeks with multiple measurements taken.

well it’s hard to walk away from this conversation with your charming personality and friendly demeanor but alas there is grass to mow so….i will leave you to your misery….good day sir…….I SAID ….GOOD DAY!

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Again..the front LG Hydac vacle doesn’t open and allow fluid extend or return pressure to flow through the front LG when the mid/rear leveler legs operate..what you are seeing is the compression of the right front LG when the LT side is lifted and the LT front LG extends because the two front LG are connected in tandem and the fluid flows to the other LG.. it is a fact,,

But. All this has nothing to do with the OPs issues at hand

Regardless of what happens wether it’s under pressure or not, the front landing gear should extend and stay on the ground when the rear landing gear extends. It should not have lifted the front landing gear 4” off the ground by extending the back. That makes me question what’s going on with the leveling system, are the jacks working the way they should or are they twisting and torquing on the frame in some way.

I really wish I could see this thing in person. The fact that he says he can’t get the floor level without torquing on the frame and lifting the front leg off the ground is intriguing. I keep going back to the picture he provided of the back wall and the orientation of the wall to the receiver hitch, which is rigid mounted to the frame. I just don’t see how the two can be that far off if the walls are properly attached. Even if the frame was twisted, the wall should move with it and stay parallel to the receiver hitch.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by cgraydotcom

Also, part of the 6 week process it sat at the dealer, both Keystone and Lippert requested multiple measurements from the dealer. Part of that frustration was that both places were only 12 miles away from the unit. They could have both drove over on lunch to look at it in person. But, it sat in a maintenance bay, on a concrete floor, for 6 weeks while they measured it. The manager told me the frame was definitely off. The Keystone rep in turn said it was not. 2 separate individuals deciphered measurements differently. Keystone denied the warranty claim. If it was the suspension, or the jacks, or anything else, why did they just thumbs up and brought it back? The rep said it’s crooked, but structurally sound. He just devalued my RV by $20k and told me it will drive down the road ok? What’s it gonna do in 5 years?

Well sitting on a shops LEVEL concrete pad and measurements led the dealer to believe that the frame was twisted. I would talk with the dealer to see how the measurements were taken. At the axles the measurements to the frame on each side should be the same. Then with the front legs on the pad, measure the four corners. If the unit is level across the front the two from corners should measure the same, and the two back corners should be the same, but not necessarily the same as the front, unless it was also leveled front to rear.
I really feel for your frustration, it seems there is something wrong with your 5er.

[cgray3910rk]

I took some measurements last night.

The front LG sit on a level concrete pad. The rear jacks and wheels are on a 12” base of dense aggregate and #2 stones.

As suggested for accuracy, I placed an 8’ 2X10 on blocks, under the rear frame, and leveled that with a 4’ contractors level.

The front…

Front right is 1/2” lower than the front left. Measured from the concrete to the underside of the I beam.

The rear….

Rear left is 1” lower than the rear right. Measured from the underside of the upper lip of the I beam.

Conclusion….

There is a 1 1/2” twist in the frame.

The box….

The left rear of the box, measured from the same leveled 2X6, is 2 3/4” lower than the right.

Placing a plumbob on the top left rear corner, and letting it hang freely along the side, measures 3 1/2” away from the side at the bottom.

So, not only is the frame twisted, the rear panel and side walls are even more off in the same direction as the frame.

I did not notice abnormalities in the outriggers that extend from the frame and support the walls. They were not noticeably pulled away from the I beam that I could see.

[cgray3910rk]

Front inside floor

[cgray3910rk]

Rear inside floor

[cgray3910rk]

Countertop. That they said they would repair. Looks the same as the rear floor, that they say is ok.

[cgray3910rk]

Pics of measurements and others.

[bsmith0404]

Ok, and just for clarification, was the floor level when making these measurements?

The part I find interesting is the rear left of the frame
Is only 1” lower than right, but the box is 2.75” lower than the right. I’m not surprised the plumb bob is off that far when you take a 2.75 difference across the bottom and then run it up a 9” sidewall the lean will be compounded.
What’s the difference in each frame rail end to end?

A couple thoughts, you say the value has been reduced by $20k, is that the offer from the dealer to trade it in on another unit? You also say it’s only 12 miles from Keystone and Lippert. When I’m dealing with $100k rv and a $20k problem, I’m not dealing with anyone on the phone, I’m driving for a face to face. Keystone has a huge customer service facility. It may take a while to get anything accomplished, but how much do you make an hour? My dad always said it was worth it to him to dicker for an hour to get an extra $500 off on a car purchase, it’s a lot more than he made an hour at work.

I’d take a lot more pictures and chart all of your results and take a drive. Good luck.

You were posting the pics as I was typing. Is it possible to get the floor level before taking measurements?

[cgray3910rk]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Ok, and just for clarification, was the floor level when making these measurements?

The part I find interesting is the rear left of the frame
Is only 1” lower than right, but the box is 2.75” lower than the right. I’m not surprised the plumb bob is off that far when you take a 2.75 difference across the bottom and then run it up a 9” sidewall the lean will be compounded.
What’s the difference in each frame rail end to end?

A couple thoughts, you say the value has been reduced by $20k, is that the offer from the dealer to trade it in on another unit? You also say it’s only 12 miles from Keystone and Lippert. When I’m dealing with $100k rv and a $20k problem, I’m not dealing with anyone on the phone, I’m driving for a face to face. Keystone has a huge customer service facility. It may take a while to get anything accomplished, but how much do you make an hour? My dad always said it was worth it to him to dicker for an hour to get an extra $500 off on a car purchase, it’s a lot more than he made an hour at work.

I’d take a lot more pictures and chart all of your results and take a drive. Good luck.

You were posting the pics as I was typing. Is it possible to get the floor level before taking measurements?

I added more pictures. I can’t get the floor level. It leans right in the front and to the left in the rear. Best I can get is kind of a happy medium. If I push it more to the right so the fridge is more level, the cabinets start not working and the shower that’s in the front will pool up on the side and not drain completely.

The $20k was just a baseless estimate on what the difference might be trading it in. I have begged Keystone to swap me for a new one. Sell mine as-is and give me one at cost. Every time I engage in conversation with them, I never hear back.

I have not considered going to them in person. Never really thought that was an option. The campground we are at rents 5 lots to Keystone and every year they put new units there for the employees to use. I spoke to a sales rep 2 weeks ago. He looked at it, saw what it was doing, took pics of the VIN, said he would get in touch. Nothing. I never hear anything unless I call CS and that rarely goes anywhere.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by cgray3910rk

You comment was notably useless. Get back to your tic-tok videos before Grammy wants you to mow the yard. In the meantime, please read where it sat on a concrete pad for 6 weeks with multiple measurements taken.

You do have a knack for burning bridges. I'm amazed anyone is trying to help. Have you expressed this same attitude with Keystone and Lippert? That could be hampering a satisfactory resolution.

[cgray3910rk]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

You do have a knack for burning bridges. I'm amazed anyone is trying to help. Have you expressed this same attitude with Keystone and Lippert? That could be hampering a satisfactory resolution.

Because 2 people made comments that did not help my situation? The rest of the people made great contributions and assisted me immensely. And I was very grateful with the input they gave me.

I came here for help. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't need help. I tried my best to convey what my RV was doing, being confused myself at its status. Again, if I knew how to explain it, I might know better how to resolve it. But being treated like I was an idiot was uncalled for. Obviously I am frustrated. Not the time to treat me like a fool.

So please, go back and read ALL of my posts and responses. Were any others like the one you are addressing? Feel free to point them out if they were similar.

Lets just go over the one you are mentioning.....

i’d trade it in and buy another rv…

Really? That's your best answer on a forum where people come for assistance?

i don’t think your gonna find the happiness you are looking for and i’ve got a terrible headache trying to decipher all of the issues you have…

I have one issue, the frame seems twisted. If someone gets a headache reading my post, why would you keep reading and then complain that I am trying to find answer?

it’s a really complicated set of concerns that can’t be figured out by typing on a keyboard…it needs to be towed to a completely level pad and someone with the skills to measure all of the points properly should easily figure out the problem (if there is one)

I took it to that person. They agreed the frame was out. Keystone agreed there was an issue, but it is not repairable. Does that mean the problem just goes away? Im stuck with it because they can't fix it. Well, they want to move the countertop even tho it is parallel to the floor. Maybe that will fix it.

it’s seems you have a riddle that is drawing people in to figure out but again without measurements and seeing it on a completely level pad it’s almost futile….

i’m sure everyone that is dealing with this is equally frustrated and hoping they wake up tomorrow and it all goes away.

Really? Everyone ELSE but this guy responded in a manner that was helpful. I somehow upset the entire forum because I have an issue that is so unordinary that its difficult to figure out, and I should just disappear and stop bugging people? If that's the case, please make this forum just so you can talk about fluffy bunnies and skip any problems that people might have.

By the way, the left I beam has a 2" drop and a 3 degree twist to it. This causes the floor to be unlevel front to back, and the left augment that the wall attaches to leans 3 degrees outward. This is the reason the wall is 3 inches off top to bottom on the back of the unit.

Thank you to all the people that gave me the information to give to the inspector. And to the guy that explained how the jacks work. Now I know and maybe not be confusing with my explanations.

Good day sir,

[bsmith0404]

Wow. What did they do to determine all of that. I would have loved to watch that being analyzed. Now that you know the issue, has anything changed with what is going to be done?

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by cgray3910rk

Because 2 people made comments that did not help my situation? The rest of the people made great contributions and assisted me immensely. And I was very grateful with the input they gave me.

I came here for help. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't need help. I tried my best to convey what my RV was doing, being confused myself at its status. Again, if I knew how to explain it, I might know better how to resolve it. But being treated like I was an idiot was uncalled for. Obviously I am frustrated. Not the time to treat me like a fool.

So please, go back and read ALL of my posts and responses. Were any others like the one you are addressing? Feel free to point them out if they were similar.

Lets just go over the one you are mentioning.....

i’d trade it in and buy another rv…

Really? That's your best answer on a forum where people come for assistance?

i don’t think your gonna find the happiness you are looking for and i’ve got a terrible headache trying to decipher all of the issues you have…

I have one issue, the frame seems twisted. If someone gets a headache reading my post, why would you keep reading and then complain that I am trying to find answer?

it’s a really complicated set of concerns that can’t be figured out by typing on a keyboard…it needs to be towed to a completely level pad and someone with the skills to measure all of the points properly should easily figure out the problem (if there is one)

I took it to that person. They agreed the frame was out. Keystone agreed there was an issue, but it is not repairable. Does that mean the problem just goes away? Im stuck with it because they can't fix it. Well, they want to move the countertop even tho it is parallel to the floor. Maybe that will fix it.

it’s seems you have a riddle that is drawing people in to figure out but again without measurements and seeing it on a completely level pad it’s almost futile….

i’m sure everyone that is dealing with this is equally frustrated and hoping they wake up tomorrow and it all goes away.

Really? Everyone ELSE but this guy responded in a manner that was helpful. I somehow upset the entire forum because I have an issue that is so unordinary that its difficult to figure out, and I should just disappear and stop bugging people? If that's the case, please make this forum just so you can talk about fluffy bunnies and skip any problems that people might have.

By the way, the left I beam has a 2" drop and a 3 degree twist to it. This causes the floor to be unlevel front to back, and the left augment that the wall attaches to leans 3 degrees outward. This is the reason the wall is 3 inches off top to bottom on the back of the unit.

Thank you to all the people that gave me the information to give to the inspector. And to the guy that explained how the jacks work. Now I know and maybe not be confusing with my explanations.

Good day sir,

response from “this guy” … sorry if the tone of my message offended you… most of your posts leading up to the one of mine you dissected seemed to be confrontational,argumentative and dismissive…at least that’s how i took them…that’s what gave me a headache …see post #26 in particular

felt more like a heated argument then someone trying to find answers and make friends..you “seemed”unhappy with your trailer and keystone said it was fine so i suggested trading it in…to find one that would make you happy

then you doubled down and got even more dismissive and rude to my post

Life is too short to hold grudges and i usually wake up each day with a good attitude…if you want some helpful advice to your posts i’d say start by being nice and everything else usually falls into place …i’ve even looked for answers hours and hours after someone posts something…others here do as well..i’ve seen it

have a good day sir

[cgray3910rk]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Wow. What did they do to determine all of that. I would have loved to watch that being analyzed. Now that you know the issue, has anything changed with what is going to be done?

It was pretty simple actually. They just measured from points to points on the opposite side. Checked the floor angle on the interior. Its so far off that you just go where it looks the worse and measure it. I have a diagram if I can get it to upload.

[cgray3910rk]

Originally Posted by jasin1

response from “this guy” … sorry if the tone of my message offended you… most of your posts leading up to the one of mine you dissected seemed to be confrontational,argumentative and dismissive…at least that’s how i took them…that’s what gave me a headache …see post #26 in particular

felt more like a heated argument then someone trying to find answers and make friends..you “seemed”unhappy with your trailer and keystone said it was fine so i suggested trading it in…to find one that would make you happy

then you doubled down and got even more dismissive and rude to my post

Life is too short to hold grudges and i usually wake up each day with a good attitude…if you want some helpful advice to your posts i’d say start by being nice and everything else usually falls into place …i’ve even looked for answers hours and hours after someone posts something…others here do as well..i’ve seen it

have a good day sir

My apologies. Ive gotten a lot of feedback that I just don't know what I am doing, that it cannot be as it seems. But I have done everything I can to get it to act right, and cannot. Feedback from the dealer was that it was way off, and Keystone refuses to acknowledge they need to do something. its as if they know they are wrong and are gambling against me getting an attorney to resolve it. So I am trying to get some support to whether I should or not. Enough people tell you that you are crazy, you start believing it. Go back to the very first image I posted. It looks just like that sitting on a flat surface. It cannot be right.