2022 Cougar 25RDS

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by wrvond

@travelin texans - I said nothing about properly adjusted brakes.

BTW - I am far from a newbie.

The controller is only part of the "properly adjusted brakes"!
You can have the controller set as high as possible, but if the brakes themselves aren't properly adjusted that trailer WILL push you through an intersection if you're traveling a bit too fast, BTDT!
Loose power to one of the axles brakes from a broken/loose wire & see if the rv doesn't give you a push when trying to stop. BTDT!
Fill the drums full of grease then see how well that "properly adjusted controller" stops the rv from pushing! BTDT also! When the factory or dealer used the EZ Lube zerks filling all 4 drums with grease & so will anyone else that uses that method to grease the bearings.

I'm also VERY FAR from being a newbie, about 50 years worth, at towing every type of trailer!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wrvond

IME this has no real bearing. The camper has brakes that don't allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle when the controller is properly set.

Tell these people that "camper has brakes that don't allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle" I can tell you that in the first one, the trailer brake lights NEVER come on, so no matter how the controller is set, it didn't make a difference".... And in the second one, the brake lights were on for the "duration" but it never made a difference. The rest, make up your own mind whether brakes and brake controllers are the only thing to worry about....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwOqARlw1EI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCYeV9RjyPI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ebfHONiQ-U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APKjtumuNs0

The internet is literally "filled with travel trailer crash videos"... some have visible brake lights, some don't. The last link above pretty much sums up the "half ton towable" bragging by manufacturers....

I think, JMHO, that one of the biggest issues that contribute to RV crashes is owners who think, "What, me worry?? Nah, I'm smarter than all those who can't control their rig, so I don't have anything to worry about."

YMMV

[pawpaw]

Probably 3 out of 4 crashes were driver's error. Not enough experienced drivers behind the wheel of these RV's. First video showed a dually pulling the large TT and even though it was a GMC it should have enough to control the trailer. Driver error maybe? Looks the the toyhauler had a run in during snowy conditions. Driver error going too fast in conditions?? Too many people driving these RV's without any professional driving experience and do not plan in advance for what can happen. Too busy on the phone or fiddling with the music.

And guys be extra careful going to a weenie roast at a nudist camp!!

[wrvond]

You guys can twist it any way you want. You can list all the aberrant conditions that will lead to whatever conclusion you want to support. You can even continue to misinterpret or change the meaning of my post. It doesn't make my statement any less true.
Of course there is no single item that is the "only thing to worry about" that's why they are called systems. To think otherwise is just plain stupid. And to accuse me of thinking that way is just plain insulting.

"Being able to get up to 70mph is one thing. What happens when you have to try to stop that much weight with your Expedition. Pretty sure the brakes aren’t rated to handle that much weight pushing against the Expy. You’re back to the tail wagging the dog.
__________________
Rick"

This is the statement to which I responded. And the answer remains, a properly set up system will not push the towing vehicle while stopping.

"You can have the controller set as high as possible, but if the brakes themselves aren't properly adjusted that trailer WILL push you through an intersection if you're traveling a bit too fast, BTDT!"
So, driving with improperly adjusted brakes. Did you become an expert on braking systems before, or after you nearly killed someone?

Those who are willing to hear, hear.
I'll not be coming back to this thread because I can see there is no positive outcome possible. The good news is that whether a camper and truck combination with a properly adjusted/set braking system does or does not push or pull on the towing vehicle is simply a point of argument and not a matter of life or death.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by wrvond

You guys can twist it any way you want. You can list all the aberrant conditions that will lead to whatever conclusion you want to support. You can even continue to misinterpret or change the meaning of my post. It doesn't make my statement any less true.
Of course there is no single item that is the "only thing to worry about" that's why they are called systems. To think otherwise is just plain stupid. And to accuse me of thinking that way is just plain insulting.

"Being able to get up to 70mph is one thing. What happens when you have to try to stop that much weight with your Expedition. Pretty sure the brakes aren’t rated to handle that much weight pushing against the Expy. You’re back to the tail wagging the dog.
__________________
Rick"

This is the statement to which I responded. And the answer remains, a properly set up system will not push the towing vehicle while stopping.

"You can have the controller set as high as possible, but if the brakes themselves aren't properly adjusted that trailer WILL push you through an intersection if you're traveling a bit too fast, BTDT!"
So, driving with improperly adjusted brakes. Did you become an expert on braking systems before, or after you nearly killed someone?

Those who are willing to hear, hear.
I'll not be coming back to this thread because I can see there is no positive outcome possible. The good news is that whether a camper and truck combination with a properly adjusted/set braking system does or does not push or pull on the towing vehicle is simply a point of argument and not a matter of life or death.

I have to agree with you on one point, the "Expy" is not enough for the chosen rv, great people mover, grocery getter, it wasn't designed tow heavy trailers with the aero dynamics of a cinder block. Will also agree with pawpaw about being driver error, towing with the "Expy" is probably a very good example!
But do disagree about it only argumentative, check those few videos, I'm sure those drivers had serious thoughts about it being "life or death" & aren't willing to argue about it.

[JRTJH]

The point I was (and AM) making is that way too many people jump behind the wheel of a tow vehicle, hook up a trailer and head out to have fun with NO knowledge other than "the salesman said"....

To say, "A trailer will stop itself if the brake controller is properly adjusted" infers something that just isn't true. It DOES NOT mean that the trailer will stop based on any of hundreds of other reasons that would/could enter into the sequence of events. Hanging a new owner's hat on "the brake controller is the key" (whether it's stated or implied) is not going to help in an emergency.

There is a "system" as stated. That system includes not only the tow vehicle "and all its systems" and the trailer "with all its systems" but also includes the driver and all his systems (from being alert and anticipating problems before they happen to knowing the limitations of his tow vehicle and trailer "systems" as well as the experience to know the difference.....

Many people get in a new vehicle, hitch up the trailer and head off with nothing terrible ever happening. Some of them are alive today because of luck, some because of situations, some just because they didn't encounter anything that destroyed their rig. THEY AREN'T THE ISSUE....

It's those few (one is too many) who injure or kill their family or heaven forbid, someone else's kid or family through thinking "my brake controller is set right, the rest is OK too.....

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

What scares me are toyhaulers with super heavy hitch weights being towed by jacked up 3/4 ton diesels pickups that have very little payload. These guys run 75 mph in the rain rolling coal. The exotic ones may even pull a small utility trailer with an extra atv or two with no brakes. Even towing the large and heavy 5th wheels we had with a diesel dually you would get sidewinds that would get your attention. I'd much rather pull a camper with some length and weight on 2 axles then some little teardrop single axle ones. If anyone is scared about the negative aspects of what may happen on the road they should stay home and watch TV!!

Well I think there's a definite difference between "being scared of negative aspects" and being aware of reckless stupidity. Mitigating controllable risks are common sense IMO.

[flybouy]

I understand where Wrvond is coming from and totally agree when the unit (TV & trailer) are in a straight line. That's not how most accidents happen. In nearly every video John posted it was sway that caused the problem. The rig on the snow/ice covered road appeared to me to be a case of sever understeer. The front tires lost traction and the weight of the truck and trailer pushed the rig forward.

Here's the issue as I see it when an "overloaded or "outclassed" vehichle tows a heavy load. First stopping in a straight line. While there aren't and vector mechanics (in a perfect theoretical world) the tv will be carrying considerably more weight and therefore require a longer stopping distance. If that greater weight is primarily supported by the rear axle then it can create a reduction in the traction of the steer axle reducing control.

Now move to a trailer traveling behind a tow vehichle swaying the force applied by the trailer's momentum will be at an angle in relation to the tow vehicle's line of movement. So even with both vehichles slowing at the exact same rate (good luck with that fine tuning) they will still be traveling in different trajectories. The trailer can push the tow vehichle sufficiently to change it's trajectory and yes size dose matter. The lighter the tv, the shorter the wheel base, the softer the suspension, the greater the sidewall flex of the tires, etc. will all effect the the amount of deflection.

To say ALL the accidents are driver error is true if there is no mechanical failure or unforeseen "act of God". The very first driver error is often being arrogant in operating a setup when the tow vehichle is outmatched with the load it's towing and the driver thinks they can "handle it". Would more driver training stop that? Obviously not for there are many, many professional truck drivers that wreck every day.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wrvond

IME this has no real bearing. The camper has brakes that don't allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle when the controller is properly set.

[QUOTE=wrvond;493852]Just because a larger combined mass vehicle takes a greater distance to come to a stop has nothing to do with my statement.

Again, a camper/truck combination with properly adjusted brake controller will NOT allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle during a stop.

If you are experiencing a pushing or pulling effect during braking your brake controller is not set correctly. Period.


From another "non newbie":


My initial response was correct and directed toward the, what I consider, "misleading" statement that if a controller is properly adjusted a trailer won't pull or push you....they will, and do. Folks new to towing read your initial post and think if they "just get it right" on that controller when they hit the brakes their truck, with a trailer, should stop just like it does without it - it won't.

My truck brakes are in excellent condition. I have 4 wheel disc brakes on my trailer. When they are at maximum (trailer tires smoking) I cannot, and will not, stop like I do without that trailer on there. Now, is that a maladjusted controller, not enough brake surface, not enough tires, pure mass?? Doesn't matter, that brake controller (no matter how it's adjusted) is not going to stop that vehicle as if there were no "mass" (trailer) back there and when that truck keeps going through the red light due to that is it "pushing" or ??? I call it pushing from the driver's seat.

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Probably 3 out of 4 crashes were driver's error. Not enough experienced drivers behind the wheel of these RV's. First video showed a dually pulling the large TT and even though it was a GMC it should have enough to control the trailer. Driver error maybe? Looks the the toyhauler had a run in during snowy conditions. Driver error going too fast in conditions?? Too many people driving these RV's without any professional driving experience and do not plan in advance for what can happen. Too busy on the phone or fiddling with the music.

And guys be extra careful going to a weenie roast at a nudist camp!!

That first vid they were driving through a construction zone, one lane and looked to be going no faster than 45 mph. That was a dually towing a 35' TT, so there was ZERO chance of overloading. That one looked like a literal gust of wind just picked the trailer up and pulled the rear end completely around. I will chalk that one up to pure wind burst/environmental factors. We have all seen/heard about the oddball wind bursts, which goes to show no matter how prepared you are (i.e. using a DRW to tow a not overly long TT) sh*t still happens. There appears to be zero driver error (proper truck, not too fast, no rain, etc).

[skids]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

(snip) That one looked like a literal gust of wind just picked the trailer up and pulled the rear end completely around. I will chalk that one up to pure wind burst/environmental factors. We have all seen/heard about the oddball wind bursts, which goes to show no matter how prepared you are (i.e. using a DRW to tow a not overly long TT) sh*t still happens. There appears to be zero driver error (proper truck, not too fast, no rain, etc).

That phenomena definitely happens around here.

[pawpaw]

Got to admit you learn a lot on the internet! I've learned not to buy a 3/4 ton truck with a diesel because it has no payload. Don't get a Ford with a 6.0 or 6.4 diesel because they blow up quickly. Don't buy a one ton truck with a gas engine unless you own an oil company. Last but not least "It was an act of God" but some atheist may not agree!

And in the immortal words of an old Cajun...Dude if you know everything how come you ain't rich??

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Got to admit you learn a lot on the internet! I've learned not to buy a 3/4 ton truck with a diesel because it has no payload. Don't get a Ford with a 6.0 or 6.4 diesel because they blow up quickly. Don't buy a one ton truck with a gas engine unless you own an oil company. Last but not least "It was an act of God" but some atheist may not agree!

And in the immortal words of an old Cajun...Dude if you know everything how come you ain't rich??

Are you rich then?

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Are you rich then?

We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously!

[Laredo Tugger]

A "senior member " correcting a "Site Team"member on posting rules?
OK, let's see where this one goes.
RMc

.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Essvar

We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously!

I was being nice. It's a valid question. When anyone makes a statment insinuating that several people are incorrect then obviously they "must have all the correct answers". Seems only logical to extrapolate from that the quote then is aplicable.

I'm very glad that you have embraced the community rules, it's a very good practice to stay in.

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Are you rich then?

Until I spent it on fast cars..fast women and booze. The rest I squandered away!!

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Until I spent it on fast cars..fast women and booze. The rest I squandered away!!

Like so many others I can relate. I used to tell people "Yes I had (fast car, jet boat, etc. BC" the BC stood for the time before childrem".

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Like so many others I can relate. I used to tell people "Yes I had (fast car, jet boat, etc. BC" the BC stood for the time before childrem".

BC...mine was BM before married!! At least I enjoy mooching off my kids that are almost 50 yrs old. Retired over 10 yrs and things are so bad I may even have to go back to work!

[German Shepherd Guy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Your actual pin weight based on the camper's gross weight will be in the 1100 lb range. The hitch you have and passengers and stuff in your SUV should then be pretty much ok unless you eat 8 slices of pizza.

Couple things with the new camper... check the tires on your camper and there is a certain brand EVERYONE advises change as quickly as possible. This brand is prone to blowing up and destroying wheel wells. Next suggestion is to buy a TPMS for your camper's tires. You can feel when your SUV's tires start to lose air a lot more readily than your campers. Buy an Electrical Management System (not a surge protector). I use a Progressive that plugs in at the pole but they and the other leading brands have one that can be installed in the camper and monitored with your phone via bluetooth. I have camped at some campground where the electricity issues would have fried the electronics in my camper. A surge protector will not help. Lots of folks who camp also use high end water pressure regulators for maintaining the correct water pressure when on city water. Last, when you camp and leave your trailer and go out of the campground, shut off city water. In a new trailer, there MAY be leaks; usually where the PEX connects and you don't want to come back to flooding.

GOOD LUCK and be safe.

What George said !!!!

Welcome to the forum.
I do not have a "high end" water pressure regulator but I do have one.
TPMS< not worth scrimping on.
Welcome!!