Delivery charges

peanut · 03-13-2022, 09:36 AM

Long time lurker but noob poster. Two posts in one day because it seems we are very close to choosing Cougar.

This is a question for anyone that may have traveled far from home to purchase.

Dealer at local RV show quoted $5K delivery charge and said it will be going up. It was one of his points trying to get us to sign a contract then and there. That point (of increased delivery charge) did not surprise me.

Question - are dealers closer to the factory (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan) passing their lower delivery charge on to the customer? We are retired so a trip is not out of the question and I know we could drive back to the midwest for far less than $6K - - even with the inflated fuel prices. Coming home would just be considered our inaugural shakedown trip. And putting a positive spin on it, that inaugural trip would be cheaper than most because it would only be one way.

So, for those that have traveled far from home to buy - - - did you save considerable chunks of money?

jasin1 · 03-13-2022, 09:42 AM

Are you buying from a national chain? Service and warranty issues could come up and not all dealers will service a rv they didn’t sell.

If you do drive out and purchase ( I’d recommend that) I’d ask them if you could stay the night at the dealer for a shakedown cruise in the parking lot.

You also need to do a thorough pdi

**chuckster57** · 03-13-2022, 09:48 AM

One thing to consider, the dealer closest to you DOES NOT have to do any warranty work on a unit not bought from them. What you save in sales price might be offset by towing it back for warranty service. PLUS you may find the local dealer may not have your best interests in mind since you "cheated" them out of a sale....Just sayin

peanut · 03-13-2022, 10:02 AM

Not worried about warranty work. I would never use a dealer shop except in an extreme situation. There is an independent less than 5 miles from me that I use and trust. He was a foreman at the Forest River plant in eastern Oregon for years before he decided to go out on his own. He knows RV's. Knowledgeable, fair, reasonably priced.

**chuckster57** · 03-13-2022, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut

Not worried about warranty work. There is an independent less than 5 miles from me that I use and trust. He was a foreman at the Forest River plant in eastern Oregon for years before he decided to go out on his own. He knows RV's. Knowledgeable, fair, reasonably priced.

Good deal, Does he know that he CAN'T do any Keystone warranty work since he isnt a Keystone dealer?

jasin1 · 03-13-2022, 10:11 AM

I’d check out this thread https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Yfp8_blKLkr9j5

**sourdough** · 03-13-2022, 10:16 AM

I would pay heed to the advice in the previous posts. We have had numerous folks on this as well as other forums that thought buying an RV is like buying a car (it's not) then belatedly find they have serious problems that require warranty work and no one will touch the trailer. No dealer is required to work on your unit if you didn't buy it from them (a bad dealer can make it difficult anyway).

If you think you can save 2-3k and want to drive across the country to get a "deal" you need to be sure you are very familiar with RVs, RV systems and have the tools and expertise to do your own repairs. It's something I wouldn't even think about doing and I'm retired with time on my hands as well.

In your shoes I think I would decide on the trailer I want (Cougar sounds like) find the dealers nearest me and check them out - make sure they are a good one with a good reputation of taking care of their customers. Work the best deal you can with them locally all the while contacting those "cheaper" dealers to see what they will sell you one for. Get that price and then ask your local dealer to try to match it. If you're dead set on the model and ready to buy tell him so and that you will commit when you agree on the deal.

I did the above on this one in a similar situation; comparing pricing for one on the E coast vs TX. I told him (GM-I won't deal with salesmen buying an RV...or anything else) I was buying "today". We compared numbers, I emailed their proposal to him, said he couldn't do it, I asked again and he said he WOULDN'T do it! I asked why and he said it was the principle of the thing. I said OK and was about to hang up and he said I'll sell it for xxx - $25 more than the E coast price. I again asked what the $25 was about and he just said he wasn't going to price it that low. I chuckled and bought it. Find the best deal/dealer locally and do a little haggling.

**JRTJH** · 03-13-2022, 10:24 AM

Automobile factories charge the same "freight/delivery charge" to all of their dealers. A dealer in Detroit pays the same price as a dealer in San Francisco. That's not the case with Keystone. A dealer in Elkhart, IN can send the lot boy to Goshen and avoid all delivery charges while the dealer in San Francisco pays anywhere from $1/mile and up for delivery from the factory.

So, yes, delivery charges are included in the cost of a trailer, but as posted above, if you have to tow that trailer back to the selling dealership for service, the savings really turn into an additional cost to you !!!!!

Think about where you buy and if it's NOT the local dealership, then before you sign on the dotted line, ask the local dealership if they will service your trailer warranty.... If they say yes, they'll service it, ask about the terms: Make a service appointment and expect service on that date or drop it off and when they don't have work scheduled for one of their customers, they'll try to work on yours..... GET THE TERMS before you attempt to save on delivery charges.....

**sourdough** · 03-13-2022, 10:37 AM

John brought up an excellent point. I talked to 2 GD dealerships near me when contemplating buying a Reflection from a dealer far away. One dealer said he wouldn't work on it, the other said he would. Initially when asked he just said "yes" they would work on it. I asked him about typical timelines, wait periods etc. He said minimum would be at least 3 mos. no matter what time of year. I was a little surprised and asked why - his customers come first, the only time mine would get worked on is if they didn't have anything else to do for "their" customers. So "yes" might mean any number of things - be sure what it is.

**chuckster57** · 03-13-2022, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Good deal, Does he know that he CAN'T do any Keystone warranty work since he isnt a Keystone dealer?

Let me clarify: he can do the work, he just wont get paid from Keystone.

wrvond · 03-13-2022, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut

Long time lurker but noob poster. Two posts in one day because it seems we are very close to choosing Cougar.

This is a question for anyone that may have traveled far from home to purchase.

Dealer at local RV show quoted $5K delivery charge and said it will be going up. It was one of his points trying to get us to sign a contract then and there. That point (of increased delivery charge) did not surprise me.

Question - are dealers closer to the factory (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan) passing their lower delivery charge on to the customer? We are retired so a trip is not out of the question and I know we could drive back to the midwest for far less than $6K - - even with the inflated fuel prices. Coming home would just be considered our inaugural shakedown trip. And putting a positive spin on it, that inaugural trip would be cheaper than most because it would only be one way.

So, for those that have traveled far from home to buy - - - did you save considerable chunks of money?

There's different ways to look at it. One dealer may charge you a transportation fee and clearly spell it out while another may not charge you a delivery fee at all and simply build it into the price of the camper. The dealer invoice lists exactly how much the dealership is charged for each unit that is delivered if you are curious about what they may or may not be charging you.
For me, selecting a dealer is about more than price alone. I want to feel like I'm being treated honestly. I'm used to driving around the country so traveling to another state to purchase is of no consequence to me. My last travel trailer was purchased in Ohio, the one before that in South Carolina, and a Class 'A' was purchased in Kentucky. My new 5er was purchased in Coldwater, Michigan.
Perhaps I'm an optimist, perhaps I'm just lucky but I've never taken a camper in for warranty work and Keystone's DIY warranty program is a real winner in my book.
If you've settled on the model camper you want, find out who sells it and check out the dealers closest to you. Keep expanding your search until you find a dealer you like with the product you want. 👍

Army Paladin · 03-20-2022, 09:32 AM

So many are saying to use a local dealer. But it seems like you have that problem whipped. If you find the unit that you like and have the means to retrieve it then it seems that you are good. Being retired does have it’s advantages and you are getting to use this to work in your favor. Also having a dealer near you to work on your ride make it the best of both worlds.
This is one of those topics that folks seem to be completely for a curtain dealer and then other are totally against another one. I did this same thing in a very similar way. We traded on the road and that has work great along with having a dealer near us that works on about anything since he is an independent.
Bottom line is if you like the rig the go for it.

Badbart56 · 03-20-2022, 12:40 PM

RV haulers are currently making about $1.92 per loaded mile when delivering travel trailers and fifth wheels. The heavier ones that require a class A CDL pay a few cents more but the drivers are only getting paid for the one way trip out when they're loaded.

These are commercial owner operators so they have to pay for fuel, insurance, truck payment, wear and tear and maintenance from what amounts to less than a dollar a mile. As you might imagine the turnover rate is very high.

The RV dealer gets a bill from the carrier (who also gets a piece of the delivery charge, when I made $800 the bill was around $1200) and they pass that onto the buyer and they in turn usually add a handling fee of their own.

I did this for about six months when I retired from law enforcement and after all expenses I was clearing about $250-$300 a week. At the time $1.28 a mile sounded good and my truck was paid for. The carrier advertised that drivers would have a back haul every fourth trip on average. That wasn't true, closer to every eighth trip and then I found that the back hauls didn't pay as much as the deliveries. Closer to half. Back hauls are when you would return an RV to the factory for in depth warranty repairs beyond what the dealer was capable of.

One thing I did learn was that the dealer would typically double the price of the units they sold. So my 2010 Fusion 405 had a factory invoice of $32K and they put an MSRP of $64K on it. So don't think there's no room to haggle over price. Not that they will, but that's what it is.

As for getting factory warranty work done, from everything I've seen, that's practically nonexistent. I would opt for an extended warranty and find a repair facility of your own choosing. This worked better for me. I made an appointment at the selling dealer to have my fuel station pump repaired/replaced and my RV sat in the same spot I parked it in for three weeks while they made up stories about how they had it in the shop and were trying to find parts, etc. The RV business is in a sad state and has been for some time. They put all of their efforts into the sales, not the service.

NH_Bulldog · 03-20-2022, 03:18 PM

We drove 780 miles for our camper. It was a good deal and made it more than worthwhile for us. The value of our camper has consistently exceeded what we paid for it by a large margin, even now at 3 years old. We had a few items identified as warranty issues at pick-up and the dealer made a call to our local dealer and made the necessary arrangements for covered repairs back home and they did as promised pretty quick after our return home.

When our Water Heater control board failed, our local dealer took care of it. When our Dometic 300 toilet had an issue, they took care of it. When our multimedia unit failed, they took care of it. My experience may be unusual, but forging good relationships over the years can pay off.

Gunny Mike · 03-23-2022, 01:33 PM

We got burnt in a few years ago when we bought a Fleetwood TT in California and immediately took it to Texas. We ended up with a trailer with about 5 windows leaking on us as the screws were over tightened. My neighbor had the same problem buying a TT out of state and the local dealer 4 miles away wouldn't do the warranty work. They tried buying from the local guy but they didn't have the specific model he wanted.

bsmith0404 · 03-23-2022, 02:10 PM

The dealership I worked at had a standard answer of 3 months for anyone who didn’t buy from them. The intention was to scare them away. It’s not just the warranty work, then shop fees were $129/hr for in house customers, $199/hr for outside customers. Advertised as $199 for all, but in house received a discount.

When I transported RVs, I calculated everything down to price per mile. Tires, oil changes, insurance, truck payment, had a repair fund for emergencies etc. my cost per mile to roll down the road was an average of $1.02. I say average because I had to calculate loaded and unloaded miles, but only got paid for loaded. That was when diesel was under $3 per gallon. I was getting $1.58 per mile, the transport company received 50 cents. So the dealer was paying $2.08. With current drivers getting $1.92, the dealer is paying around $2.50.

Now take into consideration if you have to take it somewhere for warranty work. I once lost a sale to another dealer 200 miles away over $300. I tried to warn the customer, he didn’t listen. When he needed work done, he towed it 200 miles to the dealer, dropped it off and went home. Then when the work was completed, drove 200 miles to pick it up, then again back home. That is two round trips for every repair. The average warranty repairs for an RV is 3. How much do you think he spent on those 6 round trips? I can promise it was more than the $300 he “saved”. My time is worth more than that to me.

wiredgeorge · 03-23-2022, 04:07 PM

Can you purchase and pick up at the factory and doesn't Keystone have a factory on the west coast? I have a 2002 Cougar and have never worried about Keystone support as I have done all work myself that needed doing but there are some things (propane related) I might contract with a local shop. Say the OP had a refrigerator go out, he would contact the refrigerator maker directly and work replacement or repair directly?

**JRTJH** · 03-23-2022, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Can you purchase and pick up at the factory and doesn't Keystone have a factory on the west coast? I have a 2002 Cougar and have never worried about Keystone support as I have done all work myself that needed doing but there are some things (propane related) I might contract with a local shop. Say the OP had a refrigerator go out, he would contact the refrigerator maker directly and work replacement or repair directly?

George,

I don't believe Keystone does any "owner deliveries at the factory". They aren't equipped to do the PDI, to service the trailer or do an orientation for new owners. As with ordering parts or verifying a warranty problelm, it's always been, "Contact your dealer for assistance". I've never heard of anyone "picking up a new trailer at the factory.

As for the warranty, Keystone warrants the "trailer", but each component is warrantied by the manufacturer of that component. Some have 2 years or 3 years of warranty. During the first year, Keystone "processes the warranty claims for components" and then, when the Keystone "all inclusive 1 year warranty" expires, it's up to the owner, the dealer or the mobile service repairman to process the component warranty claims.

According to the owner's manual, the way Keystone "phrases it" is,
"Appliance and component manufacturer warranties, if any, are separate from the above Keystone Limited Warranties. Keystone administers the separate appliance and component warranties only during the Keystone one (1) year base limited warranty coverage period except for tires, batteries, generators, and ASA supplied electronics (those items are not only excluded, but Keystone does not administer those components’ separate warranties). All warranty service claims on components must therefore be directed during the one-year base limited warranty coverage period to Keystone through an authorized Keystone dealer or service center. After the Keystone one-year base coverage period expires, all appliance and component warranty claims must be directed to the respective appliance and component manufacturers. Keystone is not warranting any appliance or components. In no way will Keystone’s Limited Warranties be modified or amended by this provision."

bsmith0404 · 03-23-2022, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Can you purchase and pick up at the factory and doesn't Keystone have a factory on the west coast? I have a 2002 Cougar and have never worried about Keystone support as I have done all work myself that needed doing but there are some things (propane related) I might contract with a local shop. Say the OP had a refrigerator go out, he would contact the refrigerator maker directly and work replacement or repair directly?

No Keystone does not do customer pick up. It’s a way to protect their dealers. Yes there is a west coast plant, they have limited models that they build and the specs are different. If you look in the brochure of some brands, Springdale for example, there are west coast editions. There are several differences, I can’t remember what they are anymore.

**sourdough** · 03-23-2022, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

George,

I don't believe Keystone does any "owner deliveries at the factory". They aren't equipped to do the PDI, to service the trailer or do an orientation for new owners. As with ordering parts or verifying a warranty problelm, it's always been, "Contact your dealer for assistance". I've never heard of anyone "picking up a new trailer at the factory.

As for the warranty, Keystone warrants the "trailer", but each component is warrantied by the manufacturer of that component. Some have 2 years or 3 years of warranty. During the first year, Keystone "processes the warranty claims for components" and then, when the Keystone "all inclusive 1 year warranty" expires, it's up to the owner, the dealer or the mobile service repairman to process the component warranty claims.

According to the owner's manual, the way Keystone "phrases it" is,
"Appliance and component manufacturer warranties, if any, are separate from the above Keystone Limited Warranties. Keystone administers the separate appliance and component warranties only during the Keystone one (1) year base limited warranty coverage period except for tires, batteries, generators, and ASA supplied electronics (those items are not only excluded, but Keystone does not administer those components’ separate warranties). All warranty service claims on components must therefore be directed during the one-year base limited warranty coverage period to Keystone through an authorized Keystone dealer or service center. After the Keystone one-year base coverage period expires, all appliance and component warranty claims must be directed to the respective appliance and component manufacturers. Keystone is not warranting any appliance or components. In no way will Keystone’s Limited Warranties be modified or amended by this provision."

What many buyers don't understand it that "Keystone" warrants very few items. The majority of the warranties are provided by the individual piece/part manufacturers. Keystone agrees to be your "interface" with those manufacturers as a convenience for the new buyers for 12 months. In reality the owner can involve the manufacturers at any time. The "structural" warranty, which I've never had to use, would probably fall upon Keystone to oversee, but, much of the time you are spinning your wheels waiting for Keystone to run all the checks for you.

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