Another Lithium Upgrade

AlpineJoe · 02-26-2022, 10:55 PM

I have a 2021Alpine 3220RL. I am planning on upgrading my batteries to lithium. My question is that I have 3 batteries.
There is one in the front passenger side beside the Hydraulic pump. I believe it is for the Hydraulics, and possibly the trailer emergency brake. This battery has its own cut off.
Then there are 2 batteries in the front compartment. These 2batteries have another cut off. There is only one converter/charger that is charging all three batteries.
My question is do I need to replace all three batteries, When I upgrade to Lithium? Since they have 2 kill switches. I originally thought that I might consider them 2 separate battery banks. Now I am thinking that I should change all 3. Since the converter\charger charges all three batteries at the same time. I figured they should be all the same type battery.
Any advice would be appreciated.

**chuckster57** · 02-27-2022, 07:31 AM

Welcome to the forum

I haven’t worked on an alpine in a while, but I believe the “seperate” battery is for the inverter that powers the residential fridge.

If your changing 1 I would do all 3 so they match and I would make sure your converter is compatible with that type battery.

Javi · 02-27-2022, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Welcome to the forum

I haven’t worked on an alpine in a while, but I believe the “seperate” battery is for the inverter that powers the residential fridge.

If your changing 1 I would do all 3 so they match and I would make sure your converter is compatible with that type battery.

The single battery in the side compartment with the hydraulics is the house battery and has a disconnect like most systems.

The battery/batteries located with the inverter have a disconnect between them and the inverter that is not part of the house battery system.

The house battery and the inverter battery/batteries are loosely tied together in a poorly designed manner that allows the single charger to service both.

I'm currently working on designing a better wiring plan for mine which includes actually hard wiring with the proper sized cables both batteries.

Although I don't and have no plans to ever boondock I am currently considering the possibility of two separate systems with a battery isolator for charging from a single source.

**chuckster57** · 02-27-2022, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

The single battery in the side compartment with the hydraulics is the house battery and has a disconnect like most systems.

The battery/batteries located with the inverter have a disconnect between them and the inverter that is not part of the house battery system.

The house battery and the inverter battery/batteries are loosely tied together in a poorly designed manner that allows the single charger to service both.

I'm currently working on designing a better wiring plan for mine which includes actually hard wiring with the proper sized cables both batteries.

Although I don't and have no plans to ever boondock I am currently considering the possibility of two separate systems with a battery isolator for charging from a single source.

Good to know, thanks for the clarification. I have been out of the dealership game for a few years so I am not up to date on all the changes and I seen VERY FEW Alpines.

AlpineJoe · 02-27-2022, 11:14 AM

Thank you Chuckster57 and JAVI. I thought I might need to change all three. I just wanted to make sure. I was also expecting to change the converter as well.

I was at the Tampa RV show last month and stopped by the WFCO booth. I asked the two guys working the booth. What converter of theirs, they recommended? They said the one that came in the camper would do a good enough job. They said it wouldn't charge it all the way to 100%, but said it would charge it to 90-95%.
From all the information that I gathered from this website and others that didn't sound quite right. Everything else I have heard was 80-85%. So I didn't ask them anything else.

Thanks again for your time and answers.

Javi · 02-27-2022, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineJoe

Thank you Chuckster57 and JAVI. I thought I might need to change all three. I just wanted to make sure. I was also expecting to change the converter as well.

I was at the Tampa RV show last month and stopped by the WFCO booth. I asked the two guys working the booth. What converter of theirs, they recommended? They said the one that came in the camper would do a good enough job. They said it wouldn't charge it all the way to 100%, but said it would charge it to 90-95%.
From all the information that I gathered from this website and others that didn't sound quite right. Everything else I have heard was 80-85%. So I didn't ask them anything else.

Thanks again for your time and answers.

WFCO does make a Lithium charger which will replace your existing charger.

snoobler · 02-27-2022, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineJoe

Thank you Chuckster57 and JAVI. I thought I might need to change all three. I just wanted to make sure. I was also expecting to change the converter as well.

I was at the Tampa RV show last month and stopped by the WFCO booth. I asked the two guys working the booth. What converter of theirs, they recommended? They said the one that came in the camper would do a good enough job. They said it wouldn't charge it all the way to 100%, but said it would charge it to 90-95%.
From all the information that I gathered from this website and others that didn't sound quite right. Everything else I have heard was 80-85%. So I didn't ask them anything else.

Thanks again for your time and answers.

Pretty much my experience.

It depends on the voltage of your converter and its behavior. Typical is 14.4-14.6V bulk/boost, 13.6-13.8V absorption and 13.2V float. These inverters will typically get you to > 95% charge over the course of about 6 hours. If you plan to do a lot of charging via generator, you may find the long run time unpleasant. If on shore, no biggie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

WFCO does make a Lithium charger which will replace your existing charger.

I have found most "Li" implementations to be mediocre at best and undesirable at worst.

The bigger issue is the wiring between the converter and battery. I've owned 5 RVs, and every single one of them had marginal wiring, including my Montana. If there's a significant voltage drop, no converter will do a good job, and the last thing you want to do is spend a few hundred dollars on something that gets you little to no benefit.

Get a battery monitor that actually counts current and reports a legitimate state of charge as voltage is a poor way to guesstimate. Try your existing converter and see how it goes.

AlpineJoe · 02-27-2022, 03:58 PM

Thank you snoobler. I was planning on installing a smart shunt when installing the batteries. I believe I will try my current converter and go from there.

Thank you all for the information and the help.

snoobler · 02-27-2022, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineJoe

Thank you snoobler. I was planning on installing a smart shunt when installing the batteries. I believe I will try my current converter and go from there.

Thank you all for the information and the help.

sounds good. The only complaint I hear about the smart shunt is its relatively poor bluetooth range compared to the BMV-712, but it's otherwise functionally identical.

ChuckS · 02-28-2022, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineJoe

Thank you Chuckster57 and JAVI. I thought I might need to change all three. I just wanted to make sure. I was also expecting to change the converter as well.

I was at the Tampa RV show last month and stopped by the WFCO booth. I asked the two guys working the booth. What converter of theirs, they recommended? They said the one that came in the camper would do a good enough job. They said it wouldn't charge it all the way to 100%, but said it would charge it to 90-95%.
From all the information that I gathered from this website and others that didn't sound quite right. Everything else I have heard was 80-85%. So I didn't ask them anything else.

Thanks again for your time and answers.

Lot of money to spend on Lithium batteries, a new converter and you still need a battery isolator or the inverter battery will draw from the main batteries...

The guys at that WFCO booth must have been smoking some good stuff to tell you your OEM converter would be fine.. It wont.. ever

I run two GC2 batteries in the hyd compartment ( $98 a piece ).. they are 7 years old now and still as good as day one

If I had the inverter I would install a Grp 31 AGM battery and isolator and two GC2 main batteries with an isolator and pocket the rest of the cash

Farside · 03-10-2022, 09:19 AM

I am planning on upgrading my batteries to lithium. My question is do I need to replace all three batteries, When I upgrade to Lithium? Since they have 2 kill switches. I originally thought that I might consider them 2 separate battery banks. Now I am thinking that I should change all 3. Since the converter\charger charges all three batteries at the same time. I figured they should be all the same type battery.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Joe, If you are going Lithium, you need to go with like batteries (Same type/same amperage/same voltage). Lithium and AGM batteries have different voltage and charging ranges. If you use a charger that is not set for lithium, then you will never get the full benefit out of using lithium. And, you might harm your AGM in the process. A lithium battery will discharge at a constant 13 volts for a long time (about 80% of it's discharge period).
An AGM will start dropping it's voltage immediately until it's down to around 10 volts. Thus, whatever charger you use will probably get confused. It could start charging before your lithium batteries need a charge, or it could run your AGM to death. A Lithium can survive a 100% discharge and recover over and over again, where an AGM might recover, but it will definitely shorten it's life tremendously.

However, there is another thing to consider, and that is temperature. A Lithium battery will not take a charge when the temp is below freezing. Just something else to consider.

AlpineJoe · 03-10-2022, 10:38 AM

Thank you Farside. I appreciate the information. I am planning on changing all three to Lithium now after this thread.
Would they all three need to be the same amp hours? I know on other type batteries they would need to be the same size. Currently the dealer has 1 group 24 in the side compartment and 2 group 27 in the very front battery compartment. So I was wondering if I could mix 100 Amh and 206 amh. Without having to do a major rewire.
Thank you all for the information.
Joe

TimC · 03-10-2022, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoobler

sounds good. The only complaint I hear about the smart shunt is its relatively poor bluetooth range compared to the BMV-712, but it's otherwise functionally identical.

100% true. Had BMV-712 on my old rig and smartshunt on the new. Smartshunt works fine but the Bluetooth range is definitely quite a bit less than the BMV-712. Smartshunt is at the front of my current camper and I sometimes can’t connect from in the back. With the BMV-712 I could connect from inside my house when the camper was parked in the driveway. Nothing too crazy for range but definitely a lot better than what I’ve experienced with the smartshunt.

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