Replace original tires on my 2020 Keystone Cougar?

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Cal,

Can you provide a link to wheels that are capable of supporting the LRF steel case tires in 15" size ??? I've not yet found a wheel capable of supporting them that looks even acceptable on a travel trailer... If you know of any wheels, could you provide a link ??? THANKS

My recommendation would be to ask the tire manufacturer what wheels are appropriate for their tires by size and load capacity.

[RJS]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I suspect you would gladly pay more now but I doubt you would have before finding out what you know now. That's why they don't put on better or higher capacity components. The average buyer doesn't know the difference and would question "why do charge more for the same trailer as your competitor?". It's a tight competition where the average purchaser is totally in the dark about most things related to the camper. Many folks don't even realize that their tow vehicle is inadequate until someone informs them.

Marshall, I agree that price drives many of our our decisions.. I did quite a bit of research building a spreadsheet with about 50 manufactures with the models I liked to help me choose the one I wanted and help learn more about the differences being offered. I really don't recall reading options at the manufactures sites that would let you select better rated axels or tires, but perhaps I did not look hard enough or those models were totally out of my price range. As it turns out I bought mine on a lot and by then its a bit late in the game. No regrets yet except on not getting the tires swapped out as soon as I could :-)

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RJS

Marshall, I agree that price drives many of our our decisions.. I did quite a bit of research building a spreadsheet with about 50 manufactures with the models I liked to help me choose the one I wanted and help learn more about the differences being offered. I really don't recall reading options at the manufactures sites that would let you select better rated axels or tires, but perhaps I did not look hard enough or those models were totally out of my price range. As it turns out I bought mine on a lot and by then its a bit late in the game. No regrets yet except on not getting the tires swapped out as soon as I could :-)

Montana offers a "upgrade axle/disc brake package" on their trailers. There may be an option for upgrade axles on Avalanche/Alpine, but in the "entry level and mid range models" you get what Keystone selects. There are no optional axles or tires. With the exception of Airstream, I don't know of any THOR trailers that have axle options on their "mid price range".. FYI, the "mid price range Airstreams" cost as much or more than a Montana, so......

That's one of the reasons I'm installing 6000 pound Dexter axles on my "Cougar XLite fifth wheel" with a GVWR of 10K, the Lippert 4400 pound axles just don't offer the "safety headroom" that I want. So, sitting in front of my trailer, in the pole barn, waiting for warmer weather, are axles, springs, 16" wheels and new Carlisle tires.

Like you, one "narrow escape with TK tires followed by losing a hub/wheel assembly making a turn into a campground was enough "suspension issues" for me... I'll have over-rated running gear before towing out of the driveway.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Montana offers a "upgrade axle/disc brake package" on their trailers. There may be an option for upgrade axles on Avalanche/Alpine, but in the "entry level and mid range models" you get what Keystone selects. There are no optional axles or tires. With the exception of Airstream, I don't know of any THOR trailers that have axle options on their "mid price range".. FYI, the "mid price range Airstreams" cost as much or more than a Montana, so......

That's one of the reasons I'm installing 6000 pound Dexter axles on my "Cougar XLite fifth wheel" with a GVWR of 10K, the Lippert 4400 pound axles just don't offer the "safety headroom" that I want. So, sitting in front of my trailer, in the pole barn, waiting for warmer weather, are axles, springs, 16" wheels and new Carlisle tires.

Like you, one "narrow escape with TK tires followed by losing a hub/wheel assembly making a turn into a campground was enough "suspension issues" for me... I'll have over-rated running gear before towing out of the driveway.

Okay, you fished me in again.

Looking at this from a trailer manufacturer's point of view, we must know the regulations they are required to build abide.

Axels play a major part when it comes time for the manufacturer to establish a vehicle's GVWR. Here's the criteria for axle selections: On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.

Like ties; increasing axle load specifications provides load capacity reserves; ONLY!

The following is a verbatim quote from NHTSA: The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use.

[alku1]

Hey folks, the disucssion went a bit wild. Anyway thanks for the input and I will check with Tire discount once we are in the states to organise replacement tires for the same wheels

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by mikec557

A picture can say a 1000 words...

But let me add. This is the Trailer King spare tire on our 2020 Cougar 26RBSWE. It's about 2.5 years old. It was never used. I looked at it about 2 weeks earlier when I topped off the air pressure before a trip. There was no VISUAL defect.

Whichever tire brand you go with, buy 5 (assuming you have two axles).

That’s an inspection cover I believe ..to check the inner tread

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Okay, you fished me in again.

Looking at this from a trailer manufacturer's point of view, we must know the regulations they are required to build abide.

Axels play a major part when it comes time for the manufacturer to establish a vehicle's GVWR. Here's the criteria for axle selections: On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.

Like ties; increasing axle load specifications provides load capacity reserves; ONLY!

The following is a verbatim quote from NHTSA: The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use.

Cal, Not sure why you felt "fished in" by my comments. I think it's pretty easy to realize that FMVSS, NHTSA, RVIA all set "MINIMUM" requirements that must be met. They DO NOT establish "MAXIMUM anything" for their "oversight for the industry". That's why TK tires that barely meet the weight requirements, 4400 pound axles on a 10,000 GVWR trailer, a single GP24 battery is OK for a trailer with a residential refrigerator and a hydraulic leeling system all meet the "minimum requirements and are "OK with the overseers". They all work "in the MINIMUMs" and are "fat dumb and happy to be there. Building better, stronger, more reliable trailers that exceed the minimum apparently falls back to the owner, not the "profit inclined builder" and all those FMVSS, NHTSA and RVIA "management suits" are "happy that they're saving the public from unscrupulous manufacturers who might have "built something a tad bit below the minumums"... That's why my axles with a significant reserve are sitting in the pole barn. I'm tired of relying on something built with minimum rather than realistic standards and am hopeful that I won't have any more axle bearing issues from "overstressed minimum standards being used on rut filled back roads in the middle of nowhere".....

FMVSS, NHTSA and RVIA gave me the "minimum that should work for most applications" but I need (and will finally have) sufficiently more than the minimum and significantly improved reliability when I drag my trailer down a dirt road to our favorite fishing hole. I need to know that we're going to get there AND BACK without losing another hub/wheel and being stranded by "minimum standards"... YMMV

[CWtheMan]

Adding things to your trailer to increase its durability is okay as long as industry standards are maintained.

Adding things to your trailer to increase its GVWR must be certified.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Adding things to your trailer to increase its durability is okay as long as industry standards are maintained.

Adding things to your trailer to increase its GVWR must be certified.

Yeah, I not only realize that, I often post that mantra two or three times a day on this forum...

I'm tired of "tiny bearings on a 4400 pound axle failing when stressed. They're the same bearings on the 5200 pound bearing spindle, so upgrading from the "derated 5200 pound Lippert axles to 6000 pound Dexter axles will give me SUBSTNTIALLY bigger bearings on the same axle tube as the 4400/5200 pound axle assembly. For me, it's about bigger, stronger hubs and more reliable bearings not about the trailer GVWR.

[sourdough]

Sometimes these conversations about FMVSS et al can be fun, and maybe enlightening at times, BUT IMO they have zero to do with what I do. I get a new RV; it has abc equipment that's supposed to be adequate; I don't think it is; I upgrade....period. Those requirements are there to keep a manufacturer, or someone, from going cheap...I don't.

As John said, trying to rely on "bare minimum" build standards as well as FMVSS etc. standards don't cut it for me. I like going bigger and better and have enough sense to know if I'm running afoul of some other nonsensical "regulation" - without trying to parse through 1000 pages of gobblydegook.

[Martin60]

I had the same tires on my 2020 Couger 29rks lost two tires on our way back from Yellowstone this year. getting ready for a two month cross county trip so i went out and put on a set of the Goodyear Endurance tires i am hoping everyone was right on the reviews. Will let you know when i get back.

[RogerE]

Originally Posted by alku1

Thanks everyone! Glad everyone confirmed my gutfeeling ;-)
Now the next question. What do you recommend where to get them?

We have until early March until we pick up the trailer. What are the best stores/tireshops to shop at?

I have a Cougar 25RES. On our first trip I blew a tire, and had to purchase a load range G tire on the side of the road. A few miles later I had another blowout. I purchased a load range E on the side of the road.
When I got home and examined the damage to the trailer, I bought three more load range F tires, and kept the new load range E as the spare. I have not regretted the decision. The tread pattern is not as pretty, but the tires are very solid.

After shopping around, I purchased my tires online from
Priority Tire 866-440-0177.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RogerE

I have a Cougar 25RES. On our first trip I blew a tire, and had to purchase a load range G tire on the side of the road. A few miles later I had another blowout. I purchased a load range E on the side of the road.
When I got home and examined the damage to the trailer, I bought three more load range F tires, and kept the new load range E as the spare. I have not regretted the decision. The tread pattern is not as pretty, but the tires are very solid.

After shopping around, I purchased my tires online from
Priority Tire 866-440-0177.

The Cougar 25RES came stock with 15" tires. Where did you find G and F rated 15" tires? BTW, I know Keystone calls it a 1/2 ton trailer but I'd suggest you check the payload on that F150. With a 10K GVW the pin weight if fully loaded would be about 2,300 lbs plus another 200 + for the hitch so your potentially strapping 2,500 lbs on the back of that F150 before you put anyone in the truck or a cup of coffee in the cupholder.

[rlh1957]

Check the date code just for self knowledge, but has no indication towards how reliable.
If you don’t change out all Five Trailer Kings, then carry two spares.
I’m glad that is my rule.

Our 2020 Keystone Half Ton 29RKS fifth wheel blew one in NM and thirty minutes later opposite side had a blow out. Both were so quick TPMS doesn’t give any warning. Only travel at 65mph and TPMS showed about equal tire pressures and
temps.
We then went on about 60 miles to Albuquerque and had remainder of Trailer Kings taken off.
The tires were only 8 months old according to the manf date and only had about 1500 miles when separating. It was separation and not cut or debris. We found both treads. One was a donut and one was in three pieces.

Both tires went on I-40 west of Albuquerque. So we had space to pull over.

Blowout on a double axle isn’t a wild ride. I felt a bump snd heard the pop, held it straight and stable, let off on accelerator and started moving toward emergency lane.
Even if I had been in a middle or left lane I could have slowed and made a controllable merge and stop.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Adding things to your trailer to increase its durability is okay as long as industry standards are maintained.

Adding things to your trailer to increase its GVWR must be certified.

Where would I take it to be certified?

[Hblick48]

TransEagle makes an all steel load range G in your tire size 225-75R15:

https://www.prioritytire.com/transea...caAgILEALw_wcB

You just need to make sure your rims can handle 110 psi. I purchased a set of steel wheels and TransEagle all steel 235-85R16 load range G for my rig over 2 years ago. So far very satisfied.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Where would I take it to be certified?

Probably that question can be best answered by a knowledgeable RV dealership.

The following is a link to a government link that controls vehicle certification. You can just type it into your computers search engine. All parts are applicable for vehicle builders. The modifier sections are what you want to read.

49 CFR Part 567

[Captainf2]

I have a 2020 295RL Montana High Country. GVWR 14300, 6000 lb axles, How does everyone feel about Rainier ST tires. I have ST235/80R16F. DOT R2NX (not sure what that is) date code 38 19, where do you find the speed rating

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Captainf2

I have a 2020 295RL Montana High Country. GVWR 14300, 6000 lb axles, How does everyone feel about Rainier ST tires. I have ST235/80R16F. DOT R2NX (not sure what that is) date code 38 19, where do you find the speed rating

Most folks with Rainier tires consider them not really top notch. You have 3 year old tires since they were manufactured in 2019. Buy some new Carlisle or Goodyear tires and pull with a little more confidence. Any tire that comes OEM on a Keystone product is called "low bidder" and wasn't selected for quality by Keystone I suggest.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Captainf2

I have a 2020 295RL Montana High Country. GVWR 14300, 6000 lb axles, How does everyone feel about Rainier ST tires. I have ST235/80R16F. DOT R2NX (not sure what that is) date code 38 19, where do you find the speed rating

I have a 2020 MHC as well that came with the same tire; they came off and Sailuns went on before it left the lot. Possibility of a "uh oh" with a ST tire with a spotty reputation on a heavy trailer was more than I wanted.

Don't know what the speed rating was for those tires but I didn't worry, none of them should be below 65mph and that's as fast as a trailer that size needs to be towed.