Can 50 amp 240= 100 amps 120?

[xrated]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Are we about to coin a new phrase, something like the 'amp-officers?' Maybe the 'volt vultures?' Okay, I'll let it go at that.

P cubed....Power Patrol Police!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Are we about to coin a new phrase, something like the 'amp-officers?' Maybe the 'volt vultures?' Okay, I'll let it go at that.

Yep. And here, after all these decades, I thought all you had to do was stick your tongue on the posts of a battery or thumb and forefinger between hot and ground to know what you had. I tried the one hand on hot and one hand on ground but....that locked me up and I couldn't get off so figured I would go back to the old finger test. Maybe "current codgers"?

[cavie]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well replace the 50 amp main with this 30/50 amp tandem quat breaker and you have a 50 amp main and a 30 amp 240 volt circuit available.

Yep, and you're still limited by the 50 amp per leg ped breaker.

[dutchmensport]

"Volt Vultures" has a nice sound to it! I vote for that!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Yep. And here, after all these decades, I thought all you had to do was stick your tongue on the posts of a battery or thumb and forefinger between hot and ground to know what you had. I tried the one hand on hot and one hand on ground but....that locked me up and I couldn't get off so figured I would go back to the old finger test. Maybe "current codgers"?

Use the back of your finger or the back of your hand... If you "touch a live circuit, your muscles will contract and "grab the hot thing tighter"... If you use the back of your hand, the contracting muscles will form a fist (away from the live thing) and knock your hand off the hot thing....

Best not to touch it, but if you do, don't use the inside of your hand/fingers.....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Use the back of your finger or the back of your hand... If you "touch a live circuit, your muscles will contract and "grab the hot thing tighter"... If you use the back of your hand, the contracting muscles will form a fist (away from the live thing) and knock your hand off the hot thing....

Best not to touch it, but if you do, don't use the inside of your hand/fingers.....

I know this very well. Standing on a pole 40' in the air, not paying attention, pulling off the line gloves talking to your coworker on the ground and then just absent mindedly reaching out to "adjust"......not good. I was young and strong but not strong enough to pull off that hold.....3" arcs of blue sparks between my fingers and palm....not coming off. After a bit the 60hz was just pulsating in "everything" across my chest and figured that was it. Told the guy below me I was gaffing out and just falling to see if my hands would let go. He advised that a property owner had put steel signs, and steel posts, at the bottom of the pole that would slice/impale me so no go. Finally moved down as far as I could will all my weight on my hands to no avail...put one hook in the pole as low as I could and ungaffed with the other putting my body weight and strength into trying to pull off. It worked, the sparks flew then literally fell onto the other hook and collapsed against the pole.

During this my boss was there and constantly telling me to do this or that. I took 30 seconds or so to get my breath, went back up and completed my work. Exhausted, we went on to the ranch whose facilities we were working on. The guy, Jewel, and his wife had no idea what had been going on but just offered a slice of fresh apple pie and glass of milk - wonderful folks.

So yes, I know, and knew, of the back of the hand but more importantly, don't get distracted - it could be "exciting".

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well replace the 50 amp main with this 30/50 amp tandem quat breaker and you have a 50 amp main and a 30 amp 240 volt circuit available.

Ok, so now what? Pull a new circuit to where and for what reason? In a solid wall trailer, you can't get the romex very far.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

So yes, I know, and knew, of the back of the hand but more importantly, don't get distracted - it could be "exciting".

Danny- When working near anything live (ground level), I've always kept one hand in the back pocket while the other does whatever. Helps to keep any accidental moves from putting a current across the heart. Working on some 277V lighting in our new facility some years ago, I was told by an electrician that "those circuits" were dead, panel main breaker was off. Well, stripping the wire and "WHACK" the current went from the left hand (I'm a south paw) across the chest to the other arm that was grounded on the top of troffer light. Left hand tightened up and I cut clean through the live wire cutting the wire loose from the strippers. I remember the look on the electrician's face when he realized what had happened. Note to self back then, and now, double check what anyone says to you when working on anything electrical in nature - ANYONE!

[JRTJH]

I also learned (the hard way) that if I'm not working "in sight of the breaker panel" to tape over the circuit breaker to prevent some "unconscious fool" from turning it back on.... I think everybody who has worked around ROMEX for any length of time has a pair of "melted dykes" either in their tool box or mounted on a "trophy plaque"...

[flybouy]

When it comes to my life I take the Reagen approach of "Trust but verify.". When I instructed electrical courses in college from day one in the lab was showing the students the different types of lock outs and had them practice installing and removing them., and VERIFYING that the circuit is dead. Not following that proceedure EVERY time in the lab resulted in a serious conversation regarding going forward in the class.

[jasin1]

I use one of these almost every day ( different brand)...keep it in my pocket when I’m working..you can test for a live wire anywhere in the circuit.. I always test on a known power source first just to be sure my tester actually works and the battery isn’t dead/ or malfunctioning... I’ve been in so many houses where you turn off the switch to a furnace and think “ power is off ..switch is off ..and i know because the furnace shut off when I turned off the switch... only to find out some knucklehead put a switch on the neutral wire instead of the hot wire ..
Old homes with cloth wiring that is almost impossible to tell which wire is white and which is black can cause problems like this... I also a several meters but use them for troubleshooting mostly

[xrated]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I use one of these almost every day ( different brand)...keep it in my pocket when I’m working..you can test for a live wire anywhere in the circuit.. I always test on a known power source first just to be sure my tester actually works and the battery isn’t dead/ or malfunctioning... I’ve been in so many houses where you turn off the switch to a furnace and think “ power is off ..switch is off ..and i know because the furnace shut off when I turned off the switch... only to find out some knucklehead put a switch on the neutral wire instead of the hot wire ..
Old homes with cloth wiring that is almost impossible to tell which wire is white and which is black can cause problems like this... I also a several meters but use them for troubleshooting mostly

A good procedure for working on anything electrical involves a few steps that many don't follow. Here it is, just in case anyone would like to use it in the future, and the acronym for it is....LOTOTO....
1. Lock out
2. Tag out
3. Try out

So in explaining that just a bit, Locking a device out is sometimes not possible, although in recent years they now have devices for actually locking out a single breaker in a panel like you would have in your house.
And of course, it's pretty easy to hang a safety tag on that locking device when you hang your lock on the lockout device.
Trying out is only effective IF the device was know to be working BEFORE you turned the breaker off in the first place.

As far as voltage testing goes, there should be three steps involved in testing any circuit.
1. Test your voltage tester on a known voltage source that has power on it. This verifies that your testing device is, in fact working as it should.
2. Test the circuit that you are going to be working on and verified absence of voltage.
3. And this one is very important....check your tester on a known voltage source AGAIN. This verifies that something didn't happen to your test equipment in the time between you initial check in step one, and the time that you checked for absence of voltage in step 2.

Years ago, a working buddy of mine and myself were getting ready to work on some overhead lighting in a building. The lighting was fed by 480VAC single phase, and we were working in a boom lift about 50 feet in the air. I had used my tester earlier in the day and thought it was perfectly fine. When I tested for voltage and there was none, I was getting ready to snip the feed wires to the fixture so that we could replace it. My buddy said...If you don't care, I'm going to check it too. When he did, we still had 480VAC on the overhead feed lines. Long story a bit shorter, one of the leads on my tester had broken internally and I could not see it, so when I tested the circuit, it was live, but the tester did not show that. And THAT....is why you always verify (Step 3 above) that your tester is in fact working before your start work on a circuit.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by xrated

A good procedure for working on anything electrical involves a few steps that many don't follow. Here it is, just in case anyone would like to use it in the future, and the acronym for it is....LOTOTO....
1. Lock out
2. Tag out
3. Try out

So in explaining that just a bit, Locking a device out is sometimes not possible, although in recent years they now have devices for actually locking out a single breaker in a panel like you would have in your house.
And of course, it's pretty easy to hang a safety tag on that locking device when you hang your lock on the lockout device.
Trying out is only effective IF the device was know to be working BEFORE you turned the breaker off in the first place.

As far as voltage testing goes, there should be three steps involved in testing any circuit.
1. Test your voltage tester on a known voltage source that has power on it. This verifies that your testing device is, in fact working as it should.
2. Test the circuit that you are going to be working on and verified absence of voltage.
3. And this one is very important....check your tester on a known voltage source AGAIN. This verifies that something didn't happen to your test equipment in the time between you initial check in step one, and the time that you checked for absence of voltage in step 2.

Years ago, a working buddy of mine and myself were getting ready to work on some overhead lighting in a building. The lighting was fed by 480VAC single phase, and we were working in a boom lift about 50 feet in the air. I had used my tester earlier in the day and thought it was perfectly fine. When I tested for voltage and there was none, I was getting ready to snip the feed wires to the fixture so that we could replace it. My buddy said...If you don't care, I'm going to check it too. When he did, we still had 480VAC on the overhead feed lines. Long story a bit shorter, one of the leads on my tester had broken internally and I could not see it, so when I tested the circuit, it was live, but the tester did not show that. And THAT....is why you always verify (Step 3 above) that your tester is in fact working before your start work on a circuit.

I agree ....I work in probably 100-200 homes a year depending on length of jobs ...
Many old homes have haphazard remodeling done by relatives and friends with no electrical experience..a furnace is always supposed to be on its own circuit....many people tap off that circuit and power lights/receptacles and bathroom circuits etc
I can be working on a furnace and the owners wife will walk in the basement and flip a breaker back on because the pond pump stopped working ...I’ve had many close calls.. my wedding ring had a piece of copper welded to it once ...stopped wearing it for many years because of that.. sometimes I just put tape around it.
I usually tape a cardboard sign over the breaker panel or tape the breaker
I always tell EVERYBODY in the house not to touch it..
Old panels are the worst because you have a small 16 space panel with multiple piggyback breakers because they didn’t want to upgrade panels.
The voltage in homes doesn’t scare me..it’s the amps I worry about when adding circuits or breakers in the panel ...but I’ve been doing this for 35+ years ...I always remind myself not to be complacent and I focus on what I’m doing.and not talk while working in a panel.

Also I can’t stand homeowners that mess with the thermostat WHILE I’m doing a startup/ checkout on a newly installed system.

Unit running fine..no problems so far... ...unit shuts off
Me: wtf..maybe kicked out on low pressure? ..can’t check gauges now..

Goes inside find customer standing at thermostat with owners manual in hand.
Me: excuse me did you just shut off the thermostat??

Customer: oh...I’m sorry..were you doing something? ..I was gonna set up my schedule...

Me: walks away slowly muttering to myself...” I should have got into the computer field when I had a chance years ago...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Bill-2020

Ok, so now what? Pull a new circuit to where and for what reason? In a solid wall trailer, you can't get the romex very far.

Well in my case I was able to run at the bottom of the cabinet space from panel to the Cheap Heat control box, and then a 30 amp 10 gauge wire to the heating element. If my panel was remote to the furnace, I would simply go under the floor with the cable. I needed to do that with the wire for the Gas/Electric switch as I wanted it next to the t-stat.

[skmct]

I should hide my head. No one has talked about the other possibility 3 phase

[cavie]

Originally Posted by skmct

I should hide my head. No one has talked about the other possibility 3 phase

3 phase is a commercial/industrial supply system.

[skmct]

No kidding but if the water is muddy between single and 2phase what would happen if we added another.

[skmct]

I was just having a bit of fun. It's been almost 30 years since I had to explain to someone how to wire a dual voltage 2 speed 3phase motor with 9 leads hanging out of the windings.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by skmct

I was just having a bit of fun. It's been almost 30 years since I had to explain to someone how to wire a dual voltage 2 speed 3phase motor with 9 leads hanging out of the windings.

L1....wire #1
L2....wire #2
L3....wire #3
then, tie together 4&7, 5&8, 6&9
That combo will work for a 480V 3phase connection....both Delta and Wye connected motors

Now, I brush off some dust and make a stab at 208V 3 phase Wye...although we didn't have 208V 3 phase where I worked, but it seems I remember .....
L1...tie 1&7 together
L2...tie 2&8 together
L3...tie 3&9 together
then tie 4,5, and 6 together.

And I can't remember Low Voltage Delta....probably because I never wired one up

[skmct]

Originally Posted by xrated

L1....wire #1
L2....wire #2
L3....wire #3
then, tie together 4&7, 5&8, 6&9
That combo will work for a 480V 3phase connection....both Delta and Wye connected motors

Now, I brush off some dust and make a stab at 208V 3 phase Wye...although we didn't have 208V 3 phase where I worked, but it seems I remember .....
L1...tie 1&7 together
L2...tie 2&8 together
L3...tie 3&9 together
then tie 4,5, and 6 together.

And I can't remember Low Voltage Delta....probably because I never wired one up

I haven't dusted in a long time I can barely remember what I had for lunch.