Attention all Weight Police!!!!

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by garysol1

I will never understand for the life of me why anyone buys a 3/4 ton truck to tow a 5th wheel with when for not very much more money they could have bought a 3500SRW and have that much more payload capacity. Unloaded ride quality is comparable between the 3/4T and 1T (Ram at least). I just don't get it the reasoning.

For me it was a bit of ignorance on the subject but mostly availability. 350's were scarce when I was buying.

[Laredo Tugger]

Yes you are correct Russ, I did miss one of the "greatest" reason these tow combinations are happening, "half ton towable"!
A culprit all to itself.
RMc

[garysol1]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well you covered many of the reasons why many tow with a 2500, you did miss one. That is have you ever walked a dealers lot? Likely 10+ 2500's to every 3500 SRW, and likely 10+ 3500 SRW to every 3500 DRW.

Very very true. I purchased my 2020 SRW (my 3rd 1T SRW) in November. There was not one new 3500 SRW Tradesman level diesel with tow prep truck to be found anywhere in the state. My dealer had to go to Kentucky to find me one. 3/4 ton trucks were a dime a dozen though.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well I agree that the responses are to educate, but some (mine at times also) are a bit abrupt.
So now days some labeled 3/4 tons, have more than a 10,000# GVWR, just to muddy the waters.

As to changes to the truck it's self, I doubt that any changes were made other than to make sure the tires had enough capacity.

Now to another issue with all of this!
I started this post based on responces to this post https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=46218

In this post Marine9007 has a 2021 Montana HC 331RL being towed by a 2021 Silverado 2500HD Diesel w/max towing 18500lb.
The Silverado has a payload of 3,146# (Door Sticker), he states payload of 3,198.

Now looking at his door sticker below! He has a payload of 3,146# BUT a max gooseneck pin rating of 2,775# a difference of 371# WHY??

I think we all assume that less the driver and passengers, what remained of payload was available for pin weight.



,

Also note the wording!
"Conventional trailer" & "Gooseneck" ratings NOT travel travel or right wheel, definitely different weights on the trucks & handling of the trailers.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Also note the wording!
"Conventional trailer" & "Gooseneck" ratings NOT travel travel or right wheel, definitely different weights on the trucks & handling of the trailers.

I did the math on those numbers, the TT is 10% and the GN is 15% of the maximum weight.

[marine9007]

For peace of mind, and more importantly, to weigh the pin in my driveway or at the campground, I purchased: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just got it today and will have some 60deg weather tomorrow to test it before loading, then after loading the basics (less food, drinking water, and clothes). Generally, we stock light in terms of these other items and normally pick up most water and food AFTER we set up camp.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by marine9007

For peace of mind, and more importantly, to weigh the pin in my driveway or at the campground, I purchased: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just got it today and will have some 60deg weather tomorrow to test it before loading, then after loading the basics (less food, drinking water, and clothes). Generally, we stock light in terms of these other items and normally pick up most water and food AFTER we set up camp.

I have the travel trailer version of that https://www.sherline.com/product/she...-weight-scale/ and it came with two pressure gauges. My unit has a front FW want so if we are packing for a long trip and carrying more water than usual I can load the trailer more precisely. I've been using this for about 8 years IIRC.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Also note the wording!
"Conventional trailer" & "Gooseneck" ratings NOT travel travel or right wheel, definitely different weights on the trucks & handling of the trailers.

I also noted the wording on payloads .. if you look it says max payload 3146 lbs...but it says max gooseneck tongue ( pin weight) of 2775 lbs...so you don’t really have 3146 when hooked up to a fifth wheel with pin weight over 2775 ...right?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I also noted the wording on payloads .. if you look it says max payload 3146 lbs...but it says max gooseneck tongue ( pin weight) of 2775 lbs...so you don’t really have 3146 when hooked up to a fifth wheel ...right?

You are comparing a pin weight to a payload rating. Apples and oranges. I would interpret that as a limitation on the mounting point of the gooseneck. I can have 3,000 lb. payload but if my hitch says max weight 1,200 lbs. then that limits the hitch weight. The 1,800 lbs. of payload would still be available.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

You are comparing a pin weight to a payload rating. Apples and oranges. I would interpret that as a limitation on the mounting point of the gooseneck. I can have 3,000 lb. payload but if my hitch says max weight 1,200 lbs. then that limits the hitch weight. The 1,800 lbs. of payload would still be available.

Ok ... well what if the pin weight comes out to 2900... you couldn’t use this truck for that fifth wheel even though it is technically below the total payload right? .. ram trucks just give you a flat payload rating they don’t specify a maximum pin weight... I was thinking it means in the Chevy/gmc you could have that much payload (3146)as long as it was spread evenly around the pickup bed and not all in one center location ( gooseneck/ fifth wheel hitch) ....maybe because of suspension handling they don’t want the excessive weight concentrated at that point? ... I’ve just never seen it spelled out specifically on the truck tag itself
Or would that only apply if you used a goose ball connection or goose box ..not sure if Anderson is considered gooseneck
From the picture in post #24

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Ok ... well what if the pin weight comes out to 2900... you couldn’t use this truck for that fifth wheel even though it is technically below the total payload right? .. ram trucks just give you a flat payload rating they don’t specify a maximum pin weight... I was thinking it means in the Chevy/gmc you could have that much payload (3146)as long as it was spread evenly around the pickup bed and not all in one center location ( gooseneck/ fifth wheel hitch) ....maybe because of suspension handling they don’t want the excessive weight concentrated at that point? ... I’ve just never seen it spelled out specifically on the truck tag itself
Or would that only apply if you used a goose ball connection or goose box ..not sure if Anderson is considered gooseneck
From the picture in post #24

You know what? Why am I doing this to myself... I don’t have to crunch payload numbers anymore and I’m definitely out of my league with the other members who know much more on the subject ..

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by jasin1

You know what? Why am I doing this to myself... I don’t have to crunch payload numbers anymore and I’m definitely out of my league with the other members who know much more on the subject ..

Yeah, when you get to the truck you have you've got yourself covered and can just wink at these situations we encounter. It is nice to help when you can though and thanks!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Yeah, when you get to the truck you have you've got yourself covered and can just wink at these situations we encounter. It is nice to help when you can though and thanks!

Yep and I hope I didn’t sound aloof saying that... I just don’t have as much experience and the more “sorta right” answers you throw into the mix can really make the entire discussion somewhat muddied and confusing so I will slowly back away from the campfire .....
It’s like me asking driving directions from my mother-in-law vs my neighbor who drives a delivery truck ....might be generally the same but one could be much more confusing ...and I love my mother-in-law

[gearhead]

GM must have a design problem on the gooseneck ball. If I recall, PullRite requires GM owners to buy and install an additional brace under the truck bed to use the 2600 single point hitch. Not sure about Andersen. Maybe it's just where the feet of the hitch land is unsupported.

[rhagfo]

If we look at the label below it states the SAE J2807 configuration. We know that is a flatbed loaded to what the is rated to carry, and the hitch weighs are adjusted to what the J2807 standard calls for, 10% for TT or conventional, and 15% for 5th wheel or GN. Why would that be considered the maximum allowed?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

If we look at the label below it states the SAE J2807 configuration. We know that is a flatbed loaded to what the is rated to carry, and the hitch weighs are adjusted to what the J2807 standard calls for, 10% for TT or conventional, and 15% for 5th wheel or GN. Why would that be considered the maximum allowed?

That's probably a question you need to take up with the GM engineers () or ....it is what it is.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Ok ... well what if the pin weight comes out to 2900... you couldn’t use this truck for that fifth wheel even though it is technically below the total payload right? .. ram trucks just give you a flat payload rating they don’t specify a maximum pin weight... I was thinking it means in the Chevy/gmc you could have that much payload (3146)as long as it was spread evenly around the pickup bed and not all in one center location ( gooseneck/ fifth wheel hitch) ....maybe because of suspension handling they don’t want the excessive weight concentrated at that point? ... I’ve just never seen it spelled out specifically on the truck tag itself
Or would that only apply if you used a goose ball connection or goose box ..not sure if Anderson is considered gooseneck
From the picture in post #24

You're overthinking the issue. NONE of those numbers can be exceeded so it becomes a simple math problem, or am algebraic equation if you want to overthink it. Think of it this way.... you are driving from point A to point B. You can only drive X amount of miles to get there due to some limitation (like GVW, CGVW, GRAW, GFAW, Hitch capacity, etc.). As long as you don't exceed the X miles without exceeding the set limitation you'll make it.

Years ago I could have written a simple Fortran program to illustrate but it's been too long now slice I've messed with it.

[marine9007]

I just did my first pin weight with limited cargo on my 5th wheel and the number was 1600lb. I think that is a good start...
Doing some math, if I want to stay under 2000 for pin weight only and leave room for truck cargo, I think if I just do 400lbs/25%, that would be around 1800lbs max trailer cargo.

[German Shepherd Guy]

So I do not tow a goose neck and so I am probably not as up on weights as I should be BUT< I see by the sticker a GVWR of #11,300. A GCWR of #27,500. and a TRW of #18,500. So where does the extra #2,300 come from? Seems like to me the TRW should be #16,200. What am I missing and why does it always have to seem so complicated?
Just maybe that is the reason many people just blow off the weights, as they do not seem to add up.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by marine9007

I just did my first pin weight with limited cargo on my 5th wheel and the number was 1600lb. I think that is a good start...
Doing some math, if I want to stay under 2000 for pin weight only and leave room for truck cargo, I think if I just do 400lbs/25%, that would be around 1800lbs max trailer cargo.

Attachment 32545

Now just for xxxx & giggles repeat exactly except with a 200 pound buddy sitting on the bed.

That'll tell you a lot about loading and the affect on pin weight.