No 12V on shore power and dead batteries

Silver_ · 09-02-2020, 08:33 PM

6 month old 364BHL. Got it back from service to replace a dead AC under warranty. Here's what I have:

First, my batteries are dead. Its been plugged into shore power since I got it back with low batteries from the shop. They charged up on the drive home and ran the jacks fine to unhook, and I plugged the camper in to continue to charge them.

Came tonight to turn the fridge on in prep for a trip, and there was no 12V power in the rig. No lights, nothing.

TV and microwave have power so 110 is getting to the distribution box. Breakers and fuses all look good.

I checked the converter fuses after hunting it down, and they are good.

No GFI circuits are tripped. I did find a blown 15 amp fuse near the batteries that is inline on a smaller red wire and replaced it. I couldn't find any manual reset breakers before the distribution/fuse panel.

Still nada, no 12V at all. Factory battery disconnect position doesn't seem to change anything.

Am I correct in thinking that the converter should provide 12V power to the rig when connected to shore power, even if both batteries are dead? So is it possible I'm looking at a bad converter in this new camper? I'm not an electrical guy bu any means, so please be gentle.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Frankly, I'm frustrated as hell with this thing so far. First trip after delivery to a 100+ degree canyon and no main AC. Dead batteries when I picked it up after warranty work. Had to cut an access hole to manually extend the slide part way to be able to open the door to get to the fuse box. Had to remove the fuse box entirely to get to the converter. Sigh....

**chuckster57** · 09-03-2020, 02:14 AM

I would be looking for the reverse polarity fuses. They are either on the back side of the converter or in the fuse panel off to the left of all the 12V fuses.

If all those fuses TEST good ( use a meter) then I would be testing the voltage at the converter.

Silver_ · 09-03-2020, 03:26 AM

They tested good with a meter. They were my first thought and the easiest solution.

**JRTJH** · 09-03-2020, 04:01 AM

You probably have a WFCO converter. There should be an owner's manual for the converter in your owner's packet from Keystone. The WFCO owner's manual has a troubleshooting section that's fairly easy to follow. You can also download another copy of the manual from the WFCO website.

That said, if you have located the converter and used an ohmmeter to check the reverse polarity fuses, then disconnect the batteries from the battery cables. DO NOT LET THE CABLES TOUCH THE TRAILER CHASSIS as they will ground out and blow lots of fuses if they touch the wrong thing......

Use a volt meter to check the voltage ON THE CABLE ENDS (not on the battery and with the battery completely removed from the circuit)... That measurement will tell you exactly the converter output voltage. If it is 13.4-13.6 VDC, then the converter is good. If it is less than that or 0.0, then the converter is bad.

If the converter output is correct, the problem is your battery and it needs to be "load tested". If the converter output is incorrect, then it's the converter and it needs replacing.

My guess is that you'll find the converter to be OK and the extended "stay at the dealership during A/C changeout" completely "killed" your battery and it now will not hold a charge (other than a surface charge) and is stopping your 12 VDC system from operating....

If it is the battery, once you remove it from the circuit, the converter "should" power up your lights and other 12 volt equipment.... DO NOT ACTUATE YOUR LANDING GEAR OR YOUR SLIDES ON CONVERTER POWER ONLY. That will overload the converter and likely damage it.

Silver_ · 09-03-2020, 04:07 AM

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

**chuckster57** · 09-03-2020, 04:14 AM

If the converter is separate from the breaker panel, you need to verify that you have AC voltage going to it. If the reverse polarity fuses are good, the converter should power the 12V stuff while plugged in. I’m thinking no power to the converter or it took a vacation.

Silver_ · 09-03-2020, 05:28 AM

What would cause no power to the converter?

SummitPond · 09-03-2020, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Y<snip>
My guess is that you'll find the converter to be OK and the extended "stay at the dealership during A/C changeout" completely "killed" your battery and it now will not hold a charge (other than a surface charge) and is stopping your 12 VDC system from operating....
<snip>

Rhetorical question: Why is it that dealers let the battery go dead?

They should know better. I had to ask my dealer to disconnect the battery if they were going to keep my TT more than two days, and the SM gave me grief about it, saying the battery would be OK even after discharge. I respectfully pushed back and she did have the battery disconnected, but jeez, what's up with this?

**JRTJH** · 09-03-2020, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SummitPond

Rhetorical question: Why is it that dealers let the battery go dead?

They should know better. I had to ask my dealer to disconnect the battery if they were going to keep my TT more than two days, and the SM gave me grief about it, saying the battery would be OK even after discharge. I respectfully pushed back and she did have the battery disconnected, but jeez, what's up with this?

I agree with you COMPLETELY !!!!! Many dealerships "focus on the problem" not on their responsibility to protect customer's property. It's the same "throughout our society"... It's their: "your problem, not mine" attitude...

A "pet peeve" of mine is car dealerships.... You take your car there for service, hand deliver the keys to the service writer and when they call you to come pick up your car, the keys are in the ignition, sitting in front of the dealership "ready to go as soon as you pay".... Complain that they left your car "available for anyone to steal" and their response is: "It's the way we do things here"

Silver_ · 09-03-2020, 05:33 PM

No output from converter. Working on testing power to converter.

Question: can I put fresh batteries in and take my trip tomorrow, using a battery charger to keep the battery charged while there? Will that get me through 3 nights until I can get warranty work done?

**chuckster57** · 09-03-2020, 05:57 PM

Simple plug checker will tell you if the converter is getting power. Plug checker is like $5.00 and good to have. If you have a battery charger you can plug in while at the campground, you’ll be ok.

**sourdough** · 09-03-2020, 06:25 PM

Silver, how long was the trailer in the shop? It doesn't take long for them to completely discharge if everything is left on while they "wait". My gut tells me that your converter didn't just die in 6 months (it could have). It tells me that something was done, an error of some kind, that blew a fuse or something. As Chuck said I don't see any reason a battery charger and new batteries wouldn't get you through. Document every single thing that is wrong and get back to that dealer.

Silver_ · 09-03-2020, 08:21 PM

Thanks, everyone. We have two fresh batteries in and a good charger for them. I'm also keeping the battery disconnected when not needed. Heres the latest:

I know shore power (110v 20 amp at the storage unit) is coming in and being distributed appropriately at the power center. My microwave and TV work and the outlets test good on voltage.

I have zero output coming from the converter to the batteries at the battery leads with the batteries disconnected. I also have zero 12V without charged batteries even when on shore power. The fan of the converter isn't coming on.

So when I tested the outlet on the power center that feeds the converter, its showing very low voltage.

So it appears that the receptacle isn't supplying power sufficient to power the converter.

The only thing between the shore power at the power center and the receptacle for the converter that i am aware of is a 20 amp breaker. Could this be the culprit? Would a bad breaker show low voltage (like 2V) on its output?

Thanks again for all the help! We should be good for the trip over the weekend (fingers crossed).

--Nathan

**JRTJH** · 09-04-2020, 05:36 AM

Two potential problems:

1. That receptacle is a "pressure connection" There is a "scissors slit" for each wire to be pushed into in the back of the receptacle. Often they vibrate loose or simply the wires were never installed in the slit correctly. Reconnect the wires or better yet, install a "old work receptacle box" and a "home style receptacle"...

2. The 14 ga ROMEX may have vibrated loose at the circuit breaker connections. DISCONNECT SHORE POWER and then check every connection on the power panel (both 12 VDC and 120VAC panels) to make sure they're tight.

If either of those does not "fix the converter problem" then I'd suggest just using your "stand alone charger" this weekend and letting the dealer fix it when you get back.

Silver_ · 09-06-2020, 09:13 AM

Update: in the mountains and things are limping along. I'm charging the batteries at night and letting them go during the day.

The only issue is that our camp ground is having some serious voltage drop issues on their 30 amp supply. I have a PMS inline at the pedestal with a remote monitor inside. The voltage on the legs reads at 118-120 with no load. Depending on the time of day, i can run my small front AC and rear fan and keep the voltage around 105-108 (only pulling 11 amps or so). Anything more on the 110 side and the PMS kicks the power off for protection. If I want to run the microwave, I have to turn off the AC and fans.

The park is full, and we are the farthest site away, so we are justing being careful to protect the camper.

**sourdough** · 09-06-2020, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_

Update: in the mountains and things are limping along. I'm charging the batteries at night and letting them go during the day.

The only issue is that our camp ground is having some serious voltage drop issues on their 30 amp supply. I have a PMS inline at the pedestal with a remote monitor inside. The voltage on the legs reads at 118-120 with no load. Depending on the time of day, i can run my small front AC and rear fan and keep the voltage around 105-108 (only pulling 11 amps or so). Anything more on the 110 side and the PMS kicks the power off for protection. If I want to run the microwave, I have to turn off the AC and fans.

The park is full, and we are the farthest site away, so we are justing being careful to protect the camper.

You need to make the owners/managers aware of their power issue. You probably won't be there long enough for any remedy to benefit you but when voltage gets that low those without an EMS to protect them can damage various equipment in their RVs. I'm thinking my EMS cuts off power when it hits 102/103vac? They need to fix that.

Silver_ · 09-06-2020, 11:41 AM

Yes, sir. Same here. Unfortunately its a known issue for them that hadn't been addressed. I spoke with our neighbor who is on the same power run and has the same issue. They've let the owners know and have been there for a while. I doubt it changed any time soon and may be worse than normal because of the holiday crowd.

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