Questions from a soon-to-be new fifth wheel owner

broskee · 09-30-2009, 11:33 AM

I'm looking at purchasing a used 2008 Keystone Raptor toy hauler (3814SS) and need to know if my chevy 2500 HD duramax (shortbed) will be able to pull it? Also, besides the hitch is there anything else I need to do to my truck to get it ready. Is there any way to get decent ball-park pricing for these, I want to make sure I'm not getting taken to the cleaners?

Any thoughts will help as I'm new to this.

Flyguy · 09-30-2009, 01:46 PM

Best thing that you can do is to clean up your 2500HD and trade it for a 3500HD Dually, the gross weight of your Raptor 3814SS is 16500lbs with a pin weight of 2635lbs and that's too much for the 2500 IMO. Looks like NADA book retail will be $36400 clean and with no problems, dealers will want more than this when you are buying and give you less than this if you are trading, oh and BTW, welcome to the forum.

Festus2 · 09-30-2009, 02:10 PM

I have an "05 GMC 2500 Duramax and pull an '08 Cougar 27RKS with no problem but its GVW is considerably lower. However, if you are looking to buy the unit you described in your post, I wouldn't want to be pulling it with your Chev 2500 Duramax - regardless of its age. You should really be looking to buy a 3500 dually. You will be happy you did! Let us know what you have decided to do and let me join with Flyguy in welcoming you to the Forum.

broskee · 09-30-2009, 02:47 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the welcome and quick response. I just looked up keystone specs and it says the GVW is arounds 12,000, am I missing something?

**hankpage** · 09-30-2009, 03:26 PM

broskee, I don't know where you got that figure from ... it may be shipping weight with different options.

Keystones numbers are,

Shipping weight:
11,770 lbs
Carrying capacity:
3,975 lbs
Hitch weight:
2,760 lbs

At any rate the hitch weight is too high for a 2500 or maybe even a 3500 SRW. Best bet would be a dually as mentioned above.
Welcome to the forum, Hank

Festus2 · 09-30-2009, 03:31 PM

Broskee: I just looked at the maximum towing weight for my truck ------ the manual says 12000 lbs for an '05 2500 shortbox 6.6 diesel. I don't have specs for the the toyhauler but let's say that it is 12000 lbs. That puts you right on the edge - you have reached the limit. I guess it depends somewhat on your comfort level. If you are okay with being maxxed out-at the limit- on the edge - then it will work for you IF the GVW is as you say - 12000 lbs.
Also, according to my truck manual, even the 3500 has a maximum towable limit of 12000 lbs. I cant see anything beyond the `12000 lb limit ------- 2500HD or 3500HD. Both have the same maximums. Strange, I would have thought the 3500 would be greater. What does your truck manual say regarding the maximum GVW?

broskee · 09-30-2009, 03:40 PM

I will look at my manual tonight and get back to you guys.

Flyguy · 09-30-2009, 04:04 PM

These figures that I am now quoting are from the 2008 Raptor Brochure for the model 3814SS as published by Keystone.

Shipping Weight = 12045 lbs
Carrying Capacity = 4455 lbs
____
Total GVW = 16500 lbs

Hitch (Pin) Weight = 2635 lbs (Fully Equipped Coach)

The Highest tow rating that I could find from the Trailer Life 2009 towing guide was for a 2500 Reg Cab LB 2WD 6.6L V8 TD and it was 15,800 lbs and would not carry the pin weight listed above.

rvinman · 09-30-2009, 04:56 PM

You need to look at the towing capacity for a fifth wheel, not a trailer. On my 01 2500HD, with the 8.1 / 4.10 the fifth wheel towing capacity is 15300 lbs.

Festus2 · 09-30-2009, 05:02 PM

It might be worth your while to go to the Trailer Life website and do your own research. You know what vehicle you have. Find your vehicle on that site and see for yourself what the limitations are - according to Trailer Life. While at their website, you can go to other sections there and find a whole bunch of information about towing. It seems that the posts you are reading so far are suggesting a tow vehicle larger than what you have now IF you are going to being pulling the 5th wheel that you described.
I think the information about towing and tow vehicles that you will find on this site will help you make up your mind. Take what suggestions you are finding here and do some research on your own. Good luck in choosing both. Richard.

MightyMike · 10-01-2009, 01:35 AM

Lots to consider when you tow with a shorty. I towed with an F250 SD shorty for years, but it had an extended pin box and I use a Pullrite slider hitch. When you figure all of your weights, make sure to account for the hitch. Got an 08 Raptor 3602 and it doesn't have the pinbox ext. Came from the factory at 13,000 dry. Talked all of the weights with my salesman before buying. Got them to take the generator out, since I would never use it and wanted to save the weight. After all of my figuring when I finally got it home and put my 1100 V Star in it, I was maxed out. Told the wife we could go, just couldn't take any food or clothing along!! She graciously let me buy a new F350 Crew cab Dually shorty.
Wanted to stay with a shorty cause the slider was already paid for. That thing is one awesome hitch, but they are a bit pricey. I think most of the hitch manufacturers can tell you what they weigh. Mine is an older model 16K, so its a little heavier than the new ones I think. Truck with the hitch in it is 8600. Trailer with the bike in it, some water in the tank( we never carry much) and our gear was 14200. GVCW is 23500. If we take anyone in the truck with us we are just about maxed out again, unless we leave the bike at home. Make sure you consider all of the things you want to put in it when you want to figure your weights. Found the best place to get towing facts is the dealer. My guy has a book he told me he wore out from all of my questions!

antiqfreq · 10-01-2009, 05:02 AM

Mighty Mike,
I too have a F250 SD, short box, and I am guessing by your weight that you have a diesel. Ours is the 7.3L.....which we love!
We too have a Pullrite SuperGlide hitch,, the 14K one as our trailer loaded
up is about 10,500 lbs. (we're gonna weigh soon AGAIN because we are going to start full timing for about a year starting in January and I just can't stop throwing 'stuff' in there)......
We have 2 Honda Generators in our tool box in front of the slider hitch and
we carry 2 five gallon cans for diesel fuel and 1 more five gallon can we carry gas in for the generators.
We hope to do a lot of dry camping when we head out - we can't wait!
Closing on our house is 10/23 - not too far away.
We leave our jobs on 12/31.
Half our family think we're nuts and the other half are envious.....
Okay, I am off topic!
Just wondering how you like your F250? We love ours. It is 2003 and we have had it since April 2006.
Jo - moderator

Flyguy · 10-01-2009, 05:08 AM

No doubt about it, the Pullright superglide 5th wheel hitch is awesome and it's the only hitch that will work in my 5'8" box without worrying about the trailer hitting the truck in a turn. The only downside to it is that you need a capture plate installed on the pin box and must remove it if any one else with a normal hitch is going to move the trailer, of course you can buy their override attachment for that if you leave the trailer at the dealer or a storage place. For me it would cost about $2500 for the hitch, the bed rails, and the capture plate with me installing it all. Pricey is right.

bennydog · 10-01-2009, 08:49 AM

rvinman...if the capacity for a 5th wheel is ~15K what is it for a tow behind?
I was not aware there was a difference so I'm learning something new today, which makes it a good day already.

Thanks

MightyMike · 10-01-2009, 02:06 PM

Bennydog, you need to get the towing capacity from a dealer. The difference between trailer tow and fifth wheel is usually a lot different. When you tow a trailer you use your frame mounted reciever- and that's what limits your tow capacity. With a fifth wheel, the weight is in the cargo area, and although you still use a hitch, it's always a higher capacity. You also need to go by the hitch manufacturers specs, as they too make different weight hitches.
I had a 2000 F250 SD with a 7.3 and a six speed manual trans, 2WD. I put an air ride suspension kit on it, and it towed like nothing was on the back. The general now let me buy a new truck (she is SOOOO sweet) and I now have a crew cab dually short bed with the 6.4 and automatic. Needed the extra cab room cause kids are all grown up.

Festus2 · 10-01-2009, 03:10 PM

There is an alternative other than going to your dealer to find your towing capacity for your vehicle....... Trailer Life has a website that lists all this stuff from 1999-2009. If you go to:
www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175 that will give you data about the towing capacity of various makes of trucks, models, and years.
Richard

sunshine10 · 10-01-2009, 08:06 PM

I pull a 2009 Everest with a Dodge 2500 Mega-cab diesel and have had no problems. You will probably need a slider hitch and air bags help. You may check out ebay for hitch.

Steersall4 · 10-03-2009, 05:22 AM

Broskee, that IS a lot of trailer !! and one finds that you can tow far more TT(lenthwise) than a 5th wheel with any given truck. But the 5th wheel has ALL positives compared to towing a TT. notice I say towing, Backing? now thats another thing ! requiring a lil more practice maybe. I too know pretty much what you'd have in that Raptor and Dualie is what I'd say, like the MOST of these guys !

Flyguy · 10-19-2009, 09:17 AM

Referring to Bennydog's post above, I see no reason to believe that towing a 5ver will increase the tow capacity of the TV over a TT, I can find no tables that separate the tow capacity of any one TV into two categories, that being a 5ver and TT, I can only believe that the towing capacity for any one TV is the same no matter if the trailer is a 5ver or a TT, I can believe however that due to pin weights being more than twice that of tongue weights that the axle load on the trailer for any given GVW will be less for a 5ver than for a TT (subtract either pin weight or tongue weight from GVW) however this by no means increases the towing capability of any one TV. Here's what the "Dexter Applications Manual" has to say about 5ver hitches:

Fifth wheel hitch - For this type of hitch, the tractor or tow vehicle will be outfitted with a mechanism called the fifth wheel. The mating component affixed to the trailer is called the king pin. The load bearing capability of the fifth wheel hitch is normally higher than the ball type hitch. Because the hitch point is located over or slightly forward of the tow vehicles rear axle, the system can carry a greater portion of the trailer weight.

Notice that there's no mention made of any increase in the towing capacity for the TV just because it's a 5ver, only that a greater portion of the trailers GVW can be carried by the TV, and even with this advantage you are still limited by the maximum rated axle weight of the TV's rear axle no matter what.

rvinman · 10-20-2009, 01:46 PM

This is from my owners manual, my 8100 V8 4.10 can tow a fifth wheel weight of 15200 lbs, but is limited to 12000 lbs for a regular trailer as seen at the bottom of the page. You might have to blow it up to read it.

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