Azdel

[JQS]

Anyone know if Azdel is used in the Keystone Bullett campers, and if so, what year did the start using Azdel?

[notanlines]

https://azdelonboard.com/brands-using-azdel/
Looks like the answer in a resounding 'no.'

[JRTJH]

Keystone developed their own "replacement product". Keystone does not use Adzel, but developed an "exclusive material" called HYPERDECK. To my knowledge, Keystone is the only manufacturer that is using HYPERDECK. It is probably also used in "Keystone offbrands" such as Dutchman, Redman, etc, but to answer your question, "Does Keystone use Adzel"... The answer is no.

https://www.keystonerv.com/innovations/hyperdeck

You might want to consider this: HYPERDECK may actually be ADZEL that's marketed under the "Keystone brand" as an exclusive product. That wouldn't be the first time. General Motors used Chevrolet engines under the Buick or Oldsmobile banner for years. Ford used Ford engines in Mercury and Lincoln vehicles for years. Chrysler used Plymouth and Dodge parts "interchangeably" for years.

In the appliance industry, Bosch, Whirlpool, Kitchen Aide, Lady Kenmore, Sears, Montgomery Ward all used the "same product with their own brand name applied by the product manufacturer"....

Hyperdeck may be ADZEL with a "Keystone name" or it may be an entirely different product that's better or not better than the competition.... That's something of a "confidential industry secret". I don't know or haven't heard of a "leaking spokesman" that's openly discussed the "reality of HYPERDECK"...

[JQS]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Keystone developed their own "replacement product". Keystone does not use Adzel, but developed an "exclusive material" called HYPERDECK. To my knowledge, Keystone is the only manufacturer that is using HYPERDECK. It is probably also used in "Keystone offbrands" such as Dutchman, Redman, etc, but to answer your question, "Does Keystone use Adzel"... The answer is no.

https://www.keystonerv.com/innovations/hyperdeck

You might want to consider this: HYPERDECK may actually be ADZEL that's marketed under the "Keystone brand" as an exclusive product. That wouldn't be the first time. General Motors used Chevrolet engines under the Buick or Oldsmobile banner for years. Ford used Ford engines in Mercury and Lincoln vehicles for years. Chrysler used Plymouth and Dodge parts "interchangeably" for years.

In the appliance industry, Bosch, Whirlpool, Kitchen Aide, Lady Kenmore, Sears, Montgomery Ward all used the "same product with their own brand name applied by the product manufacturer"....

Hyperdeck may be ADZEL with a "Keystone name" or it may be an entirely different product that's better or not better than the competition.... That's something of a "confidential industry secret". I don't know or haven't heard of a "leaking spokesman" that's openly discussed the "reality of HYPERDECK"...

First thanks to all who responded! Do you know when Keystone started using HYPERDECK?

[wiredgeorge]

Looked at the write ups for both Adzel and Hyderdeck and both are made of inorganic composites and are impervious to water. Also note that Crossroads RV, first cousin to Keystone, uses Adzel. Could the products be the same? Hmmmm

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Looked at the write ups for both Adzel and Hyderdeck and both are made of inorganic composites and are impervious to water. Also note that Crossroads RV, first cousin to Keystone, uses Adzel. Could the products be the same? Hmmmm

They may very well be "EXACTLY the same" with a different sticker on the back... Then, they may (just as easily) be similar, made by a different manufacturer with a lower bid"... That's the "I haven't heard anything concrete from a Keystone leaker in the engineering department"....

Corporate secret or just "low value information"... Who knows.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by JQS

First thanks to all who responded! Do you know when Keystone started using HYPERDECK?

The 2018 Bullet brochure lists the following in the brochure:

14. Smooth fiberglass exterior
15. 1/8 inch Luan wall backing
20. Plyveneer floor decking (water resistant).

So, it looks like the 2018 Bullet models used FILON with luan backing and a "plywood floor decking" that was water resistant.

https://keystone-rv-dealer-app.cdn.p...chure-2018.pdf

The more recent model brochures do not list the "construction features" in detail, focusing more on "all electric tongue jack", "stainless sink", new interior decor colors..... In other words, the "accessible model information" conveniently has moved away from "details" and moved toward "features".

Marketing makes it impossible to find an answer to your question on the Keystone website and I'd suspect that the majority of owners couldn't tell you if they have a "solid floor deck" or a "foam core/luan floor deck" or a "foam core/hyperdeck floor system".... There are a few owners who have had some significant water damage and Keystone replaced the entire floor system in their trailer. Some were Passport, Premier or similar "ultra-lite brands". I don't recall an owner who has reported a "Bullet floor replacement"...

The ADZEL is primarily a replacement for wall surfaces. It eliminates the luan or cardboard wall backing that's under most FILON sidewalls. ADZEL, I suppose, could be used in the flooring systems, but most "standard weight Keystone trailers" use an engineered wood floor system, typically 5/8" thick and most "ultra-light Keystone trailers" use a foam core, laminated floor system. Prior to around 2018/2019, that foam core floor was built with luan. In later years, it was built with "hyperdeck". Bullet has not used a "foam core floor" with hyperdeck, as far as I can tell prior to the 2021 model year trailers... Prior to that, it was called "Plyveneer" or some other fancy name, but was essentially "luan plywood" and was subject to water damage if it was exposed for long periods of time.

I don't know of any Keystone trailer brand that has used ADZEL either in the sidewalls or in the foam core floor and I don't know of any Keystone trailer with a "solid floor deck product" that has either ADZEL or hyperdeck as a part of that "engineered wood floor product".

The Bullet line, as far as I know, has used FILON sidewalls backed with luan and "solid floors (plywood or wood chip product)... I don't know of any Bullet model built with a foam core floor that was advertised as "waterproof, so that line wouldn't have ADZEL or hyperdeck in the floor. probably before the 2021 model year. After that, hyperdeck replaced luan in all Keystone foam core floors, as far as I can tell... That said, things at Keystone change on a daily basis, so what's true today is very likely to be "the exception for all but one introductory line" tomorrow.

[Bustinbeards]

I can tell you azdel wasn’t used in the 2019 bullet floor I just replaced. It was 1/4” particle board as sub floor 1.5” styrofoam in the middle and 1/4” luan with a clear film then the floor vinyl on top.

[08quadram]

Hyper-deck was first used in the 2020 model year Bullet trailers. It is only used on the floors. It is not used in the wall structure.

My 2019 Bullet didn't have it, but my 2020 does.

[Ccrew]

Originally Posted by 08quadram

Hyper-deck was first used in the 2020 model year Bullet trailers. It is only used on the floors. It is not used in the wall structure.

My 2019 Bullet didn't have it, but my 2020 does.

Hyperdeck was started late in the 2019 run after Keystone had to start replacing floors in 2018-2019 models due to the use of organic materials (including cardboard) in the floors. There's a serial # break that's never really been published, it's around April of 2019. Hyperdeck materials simply removed the Luan and cardboard materials. It's not Azdel. No Bullet uses Azdel in the sidewalls, it's all still Filon over Luan except things like rear walls which are free-floating.

Had a 2018 Bullet that had the floor rot out, so know the issue well. Keystone has a dedicated facility now that's doing nothing but replacing floors as a result of this fiasco.

[CampNBrew2]

I hope that all manufacturers will eventually migrate to a composite system like Azdel- whether that brand name, rebranded, or their own version- Walls, roof decking and floors.
I have been fine (lucky?) with the current system due to close attention to all my seals, but my next trailer will likely have Azdel/composite panels. If this rules out Keystone than so be it.
Its good stuff
https://azdelonboard.com/

[dljs1941]

Is there a way to determine what type of floor you have. 2020 Bullet 273BHS

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by dljs1941

Is there a way to determine what type of floor you have. 2020 Bullet 273BHS

The "guaranteed way" is to check for yourself... Pull one of the floor heat vents, look at the construction of the cutout where the vent was installed. You can identify the vinyl flooring, carpet, type of subfloor, thickness of the foam layer and what's under the foam. With that quick inspection, you will know "EXACTLY" how your floor was made.

Same with the roof decking. Pull the trim ring from one of the roof vents, pull back the TPO membrane and you can use a flashlight to see just how your roof was made. You can tell the type material used for decking, the thickness, the way it is insulated, how the HVAC ducting is installed, what kind of rafters you have and just how "thin" (not thick) the luan ceiling panels really are....

[ChrispyjCSLT22]

Hyperdeck is used in their floors and its because of the lack of Azdel in their sidewalls, its why I won't ever own a Keystone TT... They to me are not the swiss army knife of Travel Trailers..

Why use hyperdeck in the floors but still use luan aka wood aka water sponge in the walls? Keystone is just simply behind the times to me compared to others..

And now, Grand Design uses Azdel in their brand new AIM lineup..

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by ChrispyjCSLT22

Hyperdeck is used in their floors and its because of the lack of Azdel in their sidewalls, its why I won't ever own a Keystone TT... They to me are not the swiss army knife of Travel Trailers..

Why use hyperdeck in the floors but still use luan aka wood aka water sponge in the walls? Keystone is just simply behind the times to me compared to others..

And now, Grand Design uses Azdel in their brand new AIM lineup..

So why join a Keyston owner's forum? Did you join the forum just to bash Keystone?

[roadglide]

Originally Posted by JQS

First thanks to all who responded! Do you know when Keystone started using HYPERDECK?

John posted video to your questions. It appears to have been in proved in 2017.

[ChrispyjCSLT22]

Originally Posted by flybouy

So why join a Keyston owner's forum? Did you join the forum just to bash Keystone?

No, to simply point out that Keystone doesn't use Azdel in their walls and they are listed as one of the brands to not buy in 2022

[sourdough]

You posted to an 8 mo. old thread referencing a "do not buy" list that's in another thread just so you could bash Keystone for not using Azdel? I doubt having Azdel, or not, in the construction had anything to do with that list. As I said, it should be read and taken with a grain of salt.

Although some, including you I suppose, think Azdel is what every trailer should be made of it's not that kind of material. It has specific uses and limitations. FR used to use it primarily on back walls. They don't use it on large or long walls because the luan backed walls are stronger and perform better. So trying to tie that opinion in the do not buy list to a lack of azdel wouldn't be accurate.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by ChrispyjCSLT22

No, to simply point out that Keystone doesn't use Azdel in their walls and they are listed as one of the brands to not buy in 2022

Is there a troll lurking?

[ChrispyjCSLT22]

Originally Posted by sourdough

You posted to an 8 mo. old thread referencing a "do not buy" list that's in another thread just so you could bash Keystone for not using Azdel? I doubt having Azdel, or not, in the construction had anything to do with that list. As I said, it should be read and taken with a grain of salt.

Although some, including you I suppose, think Azdel is what every trailer should be made of it's not that kind of material. It has specific uses and limitations. FR used to use it primarily on back walls. They don't use it on large or long walls because the luan backed walls are stronger and perform better. So trying to tie that opinion in the do not buy list to a lack of azdel wouldn't be accurate.

Azdel is impervious to water vs luan aka wood is not.. I was originally here when I first started my shopping and research and knowing they do not use Azdel, thats a major turn off... Also folks asked on this thread if they did and I reassured their answer even tho you do not like it..